The changes weren't for the better.

I mean to me when I think of a "Bully Squad", I'm thinking of your typical SWF who clicks their flashlights, tbags after doing something pretty mid, bringing a favorable map offering, etc. Basically anything to specifically piss off the killer, which they can only really pull off if the killer in question doesn't know how to deal with it.

I mean what killers are you playing? Even after 6.1.0 which pretty much only affected m1 killers outside of gen times they are still not great. Bully squads to me are just a free win as a blight player, but I don't play blight for the fact that he is S tier I play him because he is most fun and skillful killer. People always lump everything in "survivor" and "killer" when the minimum and maximum of each role is so low and high that most people's claims become irrelevant. 4 Green/purple med-kits can only be contested by blight and nurse, while even if it's solo queue they will probably still win vs all m1 killer's with builds like that. People under rate survivor as a whole and over rate killer as a whole when most killer's are bad and the only issue with survivor is mid to low mmr survivor's ruining lobby's that a killer got filled into and solo queue lacking information to be efficient. These forums make me question if player's actually know how to read balance of video game's, as I come from league I have an advantage in these areas that pretty much 95% of the people on these forums don't have. Though this game is asymmetrical so there are a incredible amount of extremely biased players as a result. Although last thing I will mention is that most player's in this game are either casual and don't care to be actually good or are trying to be good and just can't actually achieve it, probably the only multiplayer game I have played where A LARGE majority of the player base is not good. A little spiel for you I guess.

Just wanted to reinforce your point. I've been playing Wraith and Ghost Face. Literally can't down people at certain spots, simply because they know how to play. So don't let people change your mind on the viability of those killers, because groupthink is very effective in this community.

People overestimate the effects of 6.1.0. As I said previously survivor's lost some power due to IW and DH being changed but gained some back in other areas. M1 killer's got most of the effects of the base kit buffs while killer's like blight and nurse got the gen times. tbf I think alch ring blight is fair vs comp teams/full sweat squads that are also good players running the best stuff, but it's not common to run into players like that. Though with the increase in full meta survivor's lately I can't imagine m1 killers are any better than 6.1.0. And I know I have said this a lot in my recent posts/replies but people in this game think they are WAY better than they actually are. While this is generally true in most multiplayer games, this is the only game I play where most players are bad straight up. It genuinely baffles me when people flaunt the fact that they have 5k hours and are losing to wraith with eruption in their swf, like this game is not that complex that it takes even 2k hours to be good at whatever role/killer you are trying to be good at. People overrate how hard this game is while not understanding how broken and weak each role can be.

That's not how statistics works. You only need a tiny sample size as long as your sample is representative of your population to get an accurate measurement. The reality is that top tier nurses are extremely rare.

Which changes exactly?

Really? Did you forget the old days DH, DS, unbreakabill, BT every match? Or the keys easy escapes or mori second hook nonsense? Fact is, game has been getting better and better in terms of balance, the main problem right now is map design and nurse.

But perk variety now is much better, theres way more options than few years ago.

Yeah! I also think Blight's overrated, especially his add-ons. Alchemist's Ring does not change his counterplay. You can still dead angled his rush. He just gets to rushing again faster.

I think the reason you know the players are bad is their opinion on killer perks. Since day 1 of the Overcharge/Call Of Brine hysteria, I've said "It's countered by gen tapping." Only with Eruption as well does it become anywhere close to problematic, and even that is countered by tapping a gen, leaving it since you know the killer kicked it, and then come back to it after Eruption has been used up. People don't want to think and improvise about doing gens. That's how they get 3-gen'd all the time.

That's just 1 perk combo. They honestly thought that post-nerf Ruin/Undying was broken, Tinkerer broken, etc. Pop/Pain Res especially, despite the fact that killers would get like 7-9 hooks with that build and still lose. People also still complain about NOED, Blood Warden, that old song and dance.

If you actually face the best survivors, efficient on gens, near-flawless in chase, etc, your best bet is using Corrupt/Deadlock. I came to that conclusion before 6.1.0, and it's still true, and no pun intended but Tru3 also said that perk combo was the best vs that caliber recently. The reason it's the best vs them is because they basically don't go down, so the only slowdown you're gonna get use out of is the guaranteed stuff. Even Deadlock isn't infallible because when one gen gets blocked, they can juggle another, so even though a gen just became unblocked from Deadlock suddenly another 1-2 gets done, because they did that. Or they can just wait out the 30 seconds, which is the same way to deal with Eruption.

But definitely this community has a lot of average people who think they know what's strong and how to play efficiently, but they don't. That's why anything that comes close to being strong for killer is "OP", every time. And if course anything OP on the survivor side is "easily counterable" or "it's rare, so deal with it." There's some really dumb takes from killers as well, but I mostly see it on the survivor side since they're the majority.

Or maybe you aren't as good as you think you are? Also, if we use hours as an estimate, every 8k hour survivor i see must be a SWF bully squad right?

The point is, good nurses are just as rare as good SWF squads.

Are people's games really this consistently bad like a lot of people parrot on this forum? And if so, I hate to sound like an ass but why are you still playing if it's truly that unpleasant?

Yeah people don't open the forums to talk about how their game's go well. Personally on both survivor and killer most things are blown out of proportion. I have been tunneled once in the 100 or so survivor games I have played since 6.1.0. I have been proxy camped by a new player and by huntress players a few times. On killer side people are not that toxic, but the one thing that is consistent is people tbagging/pointing until you push them out at the exit gate, even my survivor main friend doesn't understand that mob mentality.

The kill rate before 6.1.0 was ~50%. On paper that may appear balanced, but in practice it is not. There are several reasons for this.

1: When killers win, they tend to get 4 kills more often than not. If they get 3 kills, it is more often than not due to hatch, which I don't believe is counted in the overall stats for kill rates. MMR also completely ignores hatch escapes.

2: When killers lose, they still tend to get 1 kill. By nature of the killer being better in the 1v1 it is very easy to secure a kill even in the harshest of losses. This means that the vast majority of the time, game results don't typically range from 0-4 kills (2 average) but instead 1-4 kills (2.5 average).

Based on that, logically the kill rate should ideally be a little over 60% for the game to be truly balanced. There is also the fact that kill rates aren't everything since there are a lot of different factors driving them that aren't always the most predictable, but on the general that's roughly where they should sit, and the devs have made clear that's their end goal.

Honestly yea I haven’t won a match in awhile and I don’t think I’m the worst player nor am I the best but it’s not fun if I’m practicing all the time and I still am unable to win.(as a survivor) I’ve also encountered many scenarios that make you feel powerless/helpless and not in a adrenaline pumping while you run from the killer way. Like a Michael grabbing me in the beginning of a match, no gens done, and not even injured but killing me instantly. Or a Leather face camping my hook the entire round until I die because my team can’t get me. And not to mention nemesis hitting me through walls whilst trapping me in a room with a zombie in a door way honestly I need a break. Yes killers are OP to me. I don’t care if I’m just not skilled apparently. It’s frustrating when you’re knocked and the killers leaves you there and slugs everyone and you have to sit the entire round waiting to die because everyone else is also dying or being chased. This game is Dead By Daylight alright, because I won’t be playing it anymore by tomorrow morning :,)

I don't find the basekit changes to be that big of an issue. Maybe take away the basekit STBFL considering how strong the actual perk is. There's a reason so many people run it. The real problem is how oppressive gen regression is. Especially against uncoordinated solo teams that aren't playing at 100% efficiency. Throw on Eruption, Pain Res, Call of Brine, Deadlock, etc and you will win nearly every game. It's not just the regression that's a problem. It's the amount of info the perks give the killer. You don't even need to run aura perks anymore. I see almost zero variety in my games. Every killer runs the exact same builds. Not the meta shakeup they probably had in mind. Most survivors will just DC or kill themselves on the hook since they can't keep up on the gens. The current gen regression meta is much stronger than the old one. Pop and Ruin were nowhere near as oppressive as the perks we have now. Ruin could at least be cleansed out of the game. Pop required the killer to at least get a hook and then travel to the gen.