Is this playstyle bannable?
I just want to know something about several playstyles, and i dont want opinions from players, i would like some statement from officials.
- The infames 2 survivor left-scenario. I am often in that situation, but usually, i try to do gens anyway. However, i run bound in all my builds, and if i see a guy just hidding while i stay on gens, i will simply lose. If i hide too, it becomes bannable, right? So basicly, the other guy is doing something bannable that is not bannable as long as i dont do the same, right? So why is just hidding not bannable in the first place? Why is my action being bannable dependend on what someone else does?
- As killer, i sometimes run a "lern to get out" build. I do nothing the whole game, until the last gen is finished. Then my build of noed, starstruck, bloodwarden and aggitation kicks in, and i get everything up to a 4k. So i am playing the game, but just not the first half. Is this bannable?
Comments
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I don't really wanna get into the first one, but i specifically remember a mod on here saying that pretending you're AFK or a bot and then taking advantage of the situation is not bannable.
They said they view it as trickery, and it can be completely avoided by just repairing and getting out.
It's not fool-proof though: If you pretend to be AFK and no one comes for you, then you were pretty much AFK and if they report you it could be considered legit.
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- Become one with your inner rat.
If your teammate is hiding and not contributing; lead the killer to the locker and point at it. You will be surprised how many killers will give you hatch in this scenario.
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OH pls don't give such advice. If the killer actually does that the other survivor could report that with video proof and both the snitch and the killer can face consequences
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Okey that weird. I know the devs don't like when the last two survs hide and play who gets found first cause that can really stretch a game for half an hour if both survs are capable at hiding but when one is already sluggt you will enter the hatch phase as soon as he bleeds out so I see no problem there
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The problam is, that is working with the killer and a bannable offence, as far as i know.
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if you report anyone for anything other than gameplay altering mods/cheats/hacks then you need to get your priorities straight. the report buttons on every media and breeding a culture of tattling is ruining the world. literally. use the block and ignore functions, turn off chat or messaging, and most importantly let things go and move on to the next match. One of the things that make match based games better than games like MMOs, open world grinders, and other similar game genres is if you have a problem with people in the game they are gone in 10 minutes.
And seriously devs, being AFK is actually against the rules and can result in enforcement actions such as suspensions and bans? thats not even reasonable. im a father and and even though my kids are very self sufficient sometimes i have to put the joystick down in an instant for things happening in my home. If anyone has ever actually been suspended or banned for being away from the game then i honestly would consider discontinuing all support of this game because that is honestly using fine print ToS to steal time from players who pay to play this game.
Maybe its because im old enough to be a parent of a majority of this games community and i grew up in a different time but seriously, learn to be the bigger person in certain situations.
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The "2 survs/too many gens" stalemate is something that bhvr needs to address.
You shouldnt ban the 2 survs that are hiding in a +3gens remaining situation when they clearly cannot repair their way out. It's the same as throwing yourself to the killer.
I will always say that this is a problem created by bhvr when they overnerfed the hatch not realising that this would produce thousand of stalemates by they removed the chance to repair for hatch.
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They nerfed hatch so hard cause the way survs squeezed out escapes from the old unbalanced hatch seemed so strong. If people had not specialized on play that way hatch would not had been hit so hard I think
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But you won't get a ban because you needed to tend to you kid 3 times a month. Being a gamer and a parent at the same time can be rough I know that and I found my way to deal with it. I play single player games when my kid is still awake so I can pause when ever I want and when it's night time I can play online games cause it happens max 2 a month that my kid wakes up and this is a a amount I think every dev toleratey and often my wife just tend to her when I play.
If you get in trouble for going afk to much or leaving to much because of your kid you should start thinking if it's the right time to play online games and I think we can demand that much from someone who raises a little human
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Yes, the hatch was nerfed because it was abused by SWF. Obviously only SWF could abuse of this, like anything.
What i am really pissed off is that from the first day they anounced the hatch nerf, i inmediately saw the coming of all these stalemates that would make the game boring overtime.
Yet i can't wrap my head around as why BHVR balancing team, which are known of slowly applying nerfs to game mechanics and test them on ptb, decided for the hatch to be destroyed in one single patch. There was so much they could have done.
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BHVR should give AFK crows to the survivors, if too much time goes by without any of them making a solid effort to repair generators, and no one has been in the hooked or in the dying state for a while, and no one has gotten in a chase for a while.
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It's realisticaly extremely hard for 2 survs to repair 2/3 gens on their own and not get killed.
Yet you ask for them to do that extremely hard action that will get them killed either way or be punished more.
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It's really wild how hard hatch got hit by the nerf hammer but I personally don't like the hatch at all cause I don't like such rng things. The killer did good and stopped the survivors from fixing the gens and even killed two already and I can see why so many slugg for the 4k cause you won on all grounds and rng takes away the last kill.
I sadly can't come up with a better Mechanik to give the survs still a chance to escape that involves less rng but actually a skilled play from there side to escape in that hopeless situation if you know what I mean
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I would put the old hatch back, but this time i would apply nerfs and test them.
1) Remove blueprints offerings
then test it
2) Up the prices of keys (like 20k)
then test it
3) Lower the odds of keys in bloodwebs
then test it
4) Remove keys entirely, makes the keys only obtainable in-game
and then and only then, i would start considering the current state of this hatch, the 'not able to get 4 people on hatch'
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If I was the killer I’d kill you and let the hiding survivor go.
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Just try to do gens, if the killer gets you so be it
If you hide in the hopes the killer will find the other survivor first they may start working together to hunt you down, and that is not pleasant
Do your part, and maybe record the match. You are going to have video proof that players are working together if that happens.
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Yes, but you also do that if you find me on a gen while the other is hidding.
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Its a hard problem to address dealing with the scenario where both want to play for hatch if there is no way they can get out. One solution would be add the ability to see hatch for 2 remaining survivors. A better solution might be to add dynamic gen speeds for when there are 2 survivors left and more than 1 gen left. So for example if you have like 3 gens remaining survivors repair at +200% progress and 2 gens remaining at +100% progress until the total progress of gens equals 1 gen left. This way you can't just 99% multiple gens but just works as a catchup mechanic
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Survivors seemed perfectly fine when BHVR suggested a basekit unbreakable mechanic, that would punish killers whenever killers were forced to slug. And if it’s ok to punish players instead of giving them a better solution, then it should apply to survivors as well.
Besides, I’m asking survivors to follow the rules of the game, and it’s against the rules for survivors to just hide indefinitely.
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What is the alternative, a riviting 25min of stealthy gameplay? If the killer makes it into the EGC with all 4 survivors alive and kicking and they got no end game build, they are faced with an unsolvable situation, too. Both situations, killer with 4 living survivors, and 2 survivors with 2-3 gens to repair, are both issues that arose, because one side probably outplayed the other. You can't always depend on a second chance mechanic like the old hatch to get you out of a pickle, some games are just lost because you got outplayed. In the same vein, I guess very few survivors would be cool with something like a 4% chance to instadown a survivor if all 4 are alife during the EGC, "Just to give the killer a fighting chance".
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The difference is that killers in EGC with 4 survs remaining can still play the game, can still down someone before the gates are up, and camp then for altruistic teammates. In fact, the killer is rewarded in EGC by deactivating second chance perks.
In the "2 survs/too many gens" survs are locked in a situation where you can only realisticaly hide or die, as the game took out all other options.
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The basekit UB is still a concept, i will not take it into an argument until it actually reaches live server. It will probably be nerfed to oblivion.
Yes, the rules says surv must repair, but the game produces a state where to repair means you will die 99.99%. And this state is not produced entirely because of the killer's skill as it is done
the overnerf of the hatch
The up of gen times
the rise of slowdown/regressing meta
All 3 combined that makes you imposible to repair your way out of this state.
Yet, most killers expect and demand that survs repair knowingly they will die.
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Incorrect. As long as you weren’t toxic or constantly try to blind me (I hate getting blinded) and I notice that your teammate is doing nothing, I’ll slug you to bait them out if I need to and give you hatch to spite them. If they don’t take the bare, I’d let you off my shoulder and go search for them, which isn’t too hard since I usually play Mr Doctor with Iron Maiden and Whispers.
As a survivor main, nothing I hate more than selfish or useless teammates. Don’t get me started on teammates who stick to gens and let their hooked mate get to second stage. If that happens, everyone is going to die as soon as they reduce the hooked person, who will escape.
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I don't like this take. you could flip the script and say that BHVR is punishing the survivors who are slugged and its okay for the to bleed out for 4 min instead of giving them a better solution. And you could argue that survivors are playing the game by surviving, they are waiting for an opportunity to repair the gen or escape which is waiting for the other player to get in chase. An unbreakable base kit could make it so survivors actually go for the repair play so they won't constantly be met with the 4min slug for 4k.
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I had a recent game on one of the cornfield maps, where three survivors stealthed the whole game. It was aweful. The non-stealth survivor of course died first, and the others just did gens whenever I was at the other end of the map and would immerse themselves whenever they got so much of a whiff if my terror radius. Ugh. Eventually I found one and whittled them down bit by bit, but the situation got worse with the second one down and two gens to go. In the end I found one and slugged them while searching for the last one. They never went for the save and the game ended with me finding the forth, but got no time left to pick up the slug and they died on the ground.
In the post game chat I was viciously attacked for this playstyle and no one wanted to see it from my perspective: that stealth on the cornmaps is about the most unfun thing you could face as the killer and that if you embark on that way you can expect no mercy or forthcomming or cute interactions with the killer whom you pissed off for 20min.
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this.
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I can understand that situation, it is never good to be a long time trying to find the survivors. Those overstealthy survs can hurt both killer and other random survs
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It’s still the rules of the game, and there should be a penalty if the rules are broken.
AFK crows would be a good solution. Instead of a prisoner’s dilemma where both survivors feel like they need to hide indefinitely, if both survivors are refusing to repair generators then the game can hit them with special AFK crows at the same time, and it can be up to chance for which survivor the killer finds first.
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This is the proper solution. They need to rework crows entirely that if you haven't touched a gen in 2 minutes, you get crows. Then once all gens are powered switch back to old method for crows.
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and in this situation that other survivor is just trying to help you out finding that immersive rat, and that's the whole point
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And that will probably lead you to DC, Suicides on hook and in general survs giving up.
Consider this, You have this unfun, unhealthy, not difficult to reach in current meta, stalemate and your solution is to punish the two survs that are losing even more by forcing them to take actions that will undoubtely kill them.
And if they DC, you will ask for harder bans.
And if they suicide on hook, you will ask for harder restriction on unhook attempts.
And if they give up because they cannot win, you will report them for unsportmanship.
You do understand what this will cause right?
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This is called "Working with the killer" and is definitely as bannable as "Refusing to participate" if not much more bannable.
It is not YOUR job as player to punish your team members for not participating. Do your part and report them for "refusing to participate" instead of falling well below that and actually flat out cheating.
In my opinion, and I hope the devs as well, refusing to participate is a learning experience. Survivor is scared and doesn't know what they should do. They need to learn to participate and if they get a punishment it will probably be something small and will teach them that their behavior needs to change.
Cheating by betraying your teammate to the killer, on the other hand, is the absolute worst thing you can do besides hacking, and deserves an enormous ban right off the bat.
If you want to leave the match because the other survivor truly is not doing anything you have three options. Do gens, you are sure to get downed and bleed out, get hooked and die, or actually you could escape. Go afk, and get some water. Though you are risking the same thing that the other survivor is risking. DC and take your instant punishment. This will give the other survivor a chance to escape though, so it is not ideal.
In these situations I prefer to try and do a gen, try not to die, and most of the time I root for the killer as I lay bleeding on the ground or dying on the hook. Don't cheat, it is much MUCH worse than hiding.
And I hope you are not using bond to shake off the killer, op, that is exactly the same thing.
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Yes. If the survivors give up on repairing generators because they don’t think they can win the game, then they’ve basically given up on the game, and we shouldn’t reward people that give up.
AFK crows spawning on both people is fair, because it progresses the game, and it’s way less harsh than banning players.
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I say the solution would be to make these stalemates not so easy achievable by the killer or give some reason to the remaining survivors to keep repairing that is not putting a gun in their head saying "repair and die, or you will be punished and die"
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Can't really blame 2 survivors hiding when the match is clearly not winnable via repairing gens. I've seen a lot of killers get entitled about it, thinking the survivors should just throw themselves at the killer and secure their 4K. Because 'the games over'. Or 'what a waste of time'. Its not on the survivor or the killer. BHVR needs to address it.
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Its only a stalemate if they are unwilling to accept their loss. If both survivors are working on gens, they still have a chance. If only one is working on gens, their chance is reduced, but it still exists based on how many gens are left. Anyone giving up and hiding is unwilling to accept their situation, and just hoping that their teammate will die first so they can spin the wheel of rng for hatch. 2 survivors/too many gens is a culmination of all of the events that happened before, which is what a lot of people seem to ignore: If your teammates are dying too fast, you need to step up and get chased on purpose and give them more time instead. Have some agency instead of relying entirely on the agency of your teammates. If nobody comes for you on hook or whatever excuse comes next, then good job you got out of a game with bad teammates faster and can go next anyway.
The constant pessimism is why these excuses happen, people always assume the worst of their teammates, but refuse to take any action to circumvent how bad they'll be, then lament the self-fulfilling prophecy that it causes. You either get a win or a quick death, both of which are preferable to begging for free wins and second chances.
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Look, if there are 2 survs left and 2/3 gens left, it's unrealistic that you are able to repair your way out, unless the killer is extremely careless or very new. So going for hatch is the only REAL option you have in those situation.
You know what is that it's infuriating about these stalemates? the 'culmination of all of the events that happened before' can be ONE SINGLE MISTAKE. Let me explain:
Situation 1: match in Gideon, two survivors got caught in the bathroom of the first saw movie by a bubba, double chainsaw sweep down, both surv goes to basement and bubba camps, pum, stalemate, 40 sec in.
Situation 2: random killer hooks the first surv, another one goes to rescue and he hook grabs him and hooks him close, pum, stalemate, 1 minute in.
Situation 3: killer facecamps the first surv, surv are not a comms SWF so they lose time trying to rescue, the one hooked dies and the killer inmediately downs the rescuer, pum, stalemate, 2 min in.
You see how easy it is to produce and abuse these stalemate?
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Then be willing to take the loss. You can complain about the odds out of your favor all day, but thats not gonna revive your teammates or give you a better chance. You can list worst case scenarios all day and thats not going to change the situation when you find yourself in it, so stop making excuses and just play them out as best you can then accept the outcome.
If those situations are as easy and unavoidable as you claim, you should probably raise your MMR a bit more. Bad players make bad plays and killers will often take advantage of those, thats been the case since this game was created. Your complaint is literally that the killer is able to snowball off of bad players while you do nothing to prevent them from doing so. You share agency with your teammates, and you need to be willing to either offset theirs or deal with the consequences of their actions as much as your own. Thats how teams work. Don't like it? Play killer.
Edit: Might as well address them individually.
1) There are tons of lockers in that bathroom. They could have gotten 1-0 downed if they heard his chainsaw and jumped in them, but they didn't. Still an agency issue caused by bad teammates, so again, your complaint is about that.
2) Bad unhooks are not only a bad teammate play situation, the game encourages them with basekit BT. Blame the devs for making the most intuitive outcome the worst one strategically. Also another bad teammate complaint.
3) Survivors refusing to adapt to the situation, again, an agency issue. You don't need comms to identify when the killer is facecamping, and kindred both exists and is promoted heavily for this very reason. Bad players refuse to take off their full stack of second chance perks and deny themselves the first chance in the process. yet again, bad teammate issue.
You blame the outcome of a "stalemate" instead of being willing to offset your teammates bad plays that led to it. Either own up and intervene or accept the outcome of your team's decisions without you.
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No. This is a PvP game, and if the survivors are losing so badly that they give up on the game, then they should lose the game.
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I am not listing 'worst case scenarios', you make it sound like a stalemate require an oustanding skill or a tremendous outplay by the killer when it is not. Strong killer like nurse and blight can produce this stalemate in 1-2 minutes and then what? accept the loss and throw myself to them because i am locked of doing anything else?.
By the way, Totally easy to raise my MMR when the only thing that counts is gate escape.
There is a limit of how much i can offset other, i cant block bubba's chainsaw, nor i cant pull two people that are being facecamped in a basement
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A PvP game where the side that is winning is asking for more buffs to win faster because they cant bare to play in the same stalemate they have produced.
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You speak in nothing but hyperbolies, so yeah, you're trying to make things sound as dramatically out of your control as you can. I'm telling you that you have more control than you are complaining about, youre just refusing to make use of it. You even went straight to nurse and blight to try to emphasize your point, ignoring that killers like myers, trapper, or hag are extremely likely to lose 2-3 gens before even getting a single hook. There is a lot of room in between those two extremes as well, which is my point: If you focus on how bad things can get, it paints a worse picture of how they currently are. If you can't tell the difference, then I guess raising your MMR is impossible and you need to accept that every game will have your pinnacle of skill and wit held back by troglodyte teammates.
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What i am saying is that you shouldnt be in a situation where every action except for hiding equals death, and if that situation in unavoidable, try to make that situation less easy to achieve.
There is no fun in being slugged for the 4k, either on the floor or hiding, i dont like to hide, but in that situation you have no other choice.
Because you can no longer repair for hatch. Gens takes more time and killers are always packed with 4 gen regressing/slowdown perks. So it is not that i dont want to repair, it is that every survivor in that situation realises that repair = death.
Yet everyone expects that survs to throw themselves to the killer and not try to survive.
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how is the killer the reason the last 2 survivors refuse to progress the game anymore because they want their pity escape?
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You shouldn't be in most of the situations you find yourself in with this game. Welcome to DBD.
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Look, let me give you an example so you can at least try to understand my point of view:
Imagine if i am a bhvr employee, and i decide to implement a new game mechanic called 'gen overpower' or something like that.
This new mechanic makes so that if 4 gens are completed and the 4 survs are still alive, the killer is locked of hooking for 4 min so you can only down them. Would you think that would be fair?
Because i could also argue with you that the 4 gens completion would be the 'culmination of all the things that happened... etc' and 'you should accept your loss and prevented it'.
Would you approve this new mechanic?
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You're acting like I've never seen these scenarios. I'm telling you that most people who play the game have, and got over it. You also have absolutely no understanding of how game development or balancing work, so your example is kinda pointless. You don't even know what my perspective is on that manner, as I am a firm defender of normalizing the strength of survivors relative to their remaining number. Stop trying to conflate arguments with absolutely no foundation.
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Of course i have no understanding of game development and balancing.
and true, i dont know your perspective in this.
But as a gamer, wherever i play a normal dbd game, and get into one of these stalemates i dont get the feeling that this should be the normal gameplay. To be stuck in a situation where i must wait for my teammate to bleed and die so i can get a chance to escape.
And i cant understand even less why killers think that in these situation they should add more mechanics to further punish the survivors that are already losing.
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A lot of people hate to hear it, but if there are only two survs left and 2-3 gens up, the game is effectively over. The ask is not for survs to accomplish the impossible, but to accept the inevitable.
I'd much rather die in an utterly futile attempt to complete objectives than to spend 10-20 extra minutes playing hide and seek and waiting the other surv out. As a surv, I find myself in this scenario with some frequency. I will hide/immerse for a couple minutes and if nothing is happening, I'll just jump on a gen and let what happens happen.
As a killer, if I find a surv trying in vain to complete objective and haven't seen the other, I will do everything I can to bait the hider out, kill them, and let the first go. Or just let them complete the gens (giving the appearance I am letting both go), and then kill the hider when they show themselves, with no direct assistance necessary.
Playing just to avoid death and not trying to escape is really, really lame. Zero respect for it.
Also, I'm always amused by people who think avoiding detection in a 2v1 scenario is somehow skillful. It's not. On most maps and against most killers, if your goal is simply not to be found, you almost have to be catastrophically incompetent to fail. Because the game is not designed as a hide and seek simulator; it assumes players are trying to progress the game.
So to the OPs scenario, it's a difficult call. While helping a killer is technically against the rules, this is a situation that muddies things a bit, because refusing to work on an objective is also really crappy. And giving yourself up when the other remaining surv is just hiding, while being a better option than skulking around or 20 minutes, feels bad. Like you're rewarding them for refusing to play.
I've never helped a killer hunt down a surv in this situation, but boy have I wanted to, and don't feel like it would have been wrong.
While working with the killer should always be bannable (you don't want grey area there), I think there should be a mechanism to force action, like afk crows spawning when no gens have been touched for an amount of time, or just force starting the egc. I'm sure the entity wouldn't abide prolonged hide and seek contests, and players shouldn't have to, either.
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Those situations happen to survivor and killer alike, they're caused by the game being balanced on averages and letting extremes go unchecked. Thats why I was saying they're just part of the game, there's no point getting caught up on them when they aren't going anywhere until the entire game's framework is reworked to put in better sanity checks and less advantage stacking. You're focusing on survivors doing poorly and getting punished harder without considering that the same happens to killers who do poorly, especially when changes like basekit BT got both added and buffed. Nobody's complaints are necessarily invalid, they're just part and parcel of how poorly balanced and designed the game is. It outgrew its scope like 5 years ago at this point.
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