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Whoever thinks that Dredge is good...

Let's take a look at what this killer can do...

  1. He can teleport to lockers.
  2. He have a pretty solid anti-loop.
  3. He have a passive buildup ability. (Nightfall)

In theory he is a pretty strong killer. He has mobility, anti-loop, map pressure. What could go wrong...?

Now let's take a look in a practical way (counters to all his powers):

  1. You can lock the lockers to a nearby gens that you want to repare, so it will take him additional time to brake through the locker. You can also clearly hear him coming out from a locker, so you can instantly change direction if you're in a chase. Basically, it completely counters his teleport.
  2. The killers which have a strong anti-loop getting countered by only 1 tactic - Shift W to a next loop. So if you see he put his remnant down (or hear), just run away to a next tile or loop. If he tries to teleport there, use point 1. (change direction, you are going to hear him coming out from a locker)
  3. If you have a healthy ears and a decent headphones, he will never catch you off guard with his nightfall. All you need to do is just hear closely, since he's really loud when it comes to nightfall.

I think the Dredge is one of the killers, which completely depends on a maps, lockers rng and survivors mistakes.

The sounds that he makes when he uses his ability's are just completely grounding his potential to be a good killer.

The killer just as weak as Sadako (he might be even worse tho).

What do you think?

Comments

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,703

    But wait, forcing survivors away from a loops is just a completely map dependant tactic, no? If there will be a connected tiles and loops, it gonna take you forever to even get a single hit, since his power slowing him down stronger than Artist.

    Artist not actually losing distance when they hold W away from a loop, Dredge does. And that means, he's basically an M1 killer without any power in chases.

    You can't teleport while you in chase, coz they just going to change direction, and you can only force them to go away from a loop.

    To me, it's the signs of a pretty weak killer, who completely rely on other side's mistakes.

  • Sharpefern
    Sharpefern Member Posts: 422

    Nightfall also makes my ears hurt. If I had to listen to those villagers every night crying and screaming I would murder them too.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,420
    edited November 2022

    Then I guess survivors make a lot of mistakes.

    Also, I wouldn't say that his power slowing him down more than Artist is an issue at all. Consider that while you're holding his power, leaving your remnant behind, you're creating two positions with which to 'resume your chase' once they leave the loop. This gives you a choice of which point will be closer to the route you want to take to 'herd' them a certain way. The freedom of this choice can make up for a significant amount of lost distance and more than counters the increased slowdown for channelling his power.

    For example, if my remnant is at one side of the loop, and I've gone around to the other side, the survivor has a choice of which direction to go in, or to go perpendicularly to both me and my remnant. In either case, I'm still going to be closer to them than Artist would be, when the survivor runs in the exact opposite direction to her.

  • Hawk81584
    Hawk81584 Member Posts: 405

    get better with him....and then you cant say hes not good. thats usually the problem

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,817

    overrated killer. he is noobstomper. He gains killer instinct while teleporting to lockers in nightfall, Its anti-stealth mechanic but in stealth in 2022 is not that prominent. Its mostly what new players because of their lack of looping skills. Nightfall block's vision of loops. All survivor above 5000 hours that are at high-level memorize all pallet loops hence blocking vision is irrelevant. Locker teleport is situational as survivor can hear him exit out of lockers. He also has large ambient sounds making him ineffective stealth. His remnant anti-loop can countered by chaining-tile junks tiles. Of course lesser experienced survivors struggle to loop and chain-tiles together. His anti-loop only works if there are no loops for survivor to detached to. As a result, he is strong when you are in the corner of the map as survivor. Ironically, he is like artist where he lacks counter-play when your in the corner of the map but his time to down is very slow, He is generally easy to beat if your team is effective on generators and you drag out the chases properly.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,703

    I heard the stories that you're a pretty good at playing survivor, what do you think of him, is he easy to loop around, and getting out of a chase?=)

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,703

    What...? Dude the Dredge is one of the easiest killers to master. Get better with what exactly? xD

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,703
    edited November 2022

    Yes, exactly from my point of view about killers "tiers", if a killer can't down survivors in a chase quickly enough, I consider such killers as a weak in general. I actually think that... Main reason to call a killer strong - is when this killer can down survivors in chases within less than 20 seconds.

    He's overrated indeed. Like crazy.

  • Ghoste
    Ghoste Member Posts: 2,135

    I'd put him B-tier. Teleport + anti-loop is a nice combo. And at least in solo q, Nightfall is much more effective than people give it credit for.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,784
  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,703
  • This content has been removed.
  • I don’t think he’s insanely strong, just incredibly boring. And not even because of Nightfall; I honestly love Nightfall. My issue with Greg is that his revenant zoning and the way he’s heavily encouraged to just hit you once and leave you injured while he teleports away means he combines my two least favorite killer playstyles to go against.

    I hate zoning killers. I hate hit-and-run killers. Dredge is a hit-and-run zoning killer. So naturally, I REALLY hate Dredge.

  • Slan
    Slan Member Posts: 307

    This man is like Sadako with less stealth component and more tp potential. He has map pressure, but in chase is pretty weak against a w holder and mindgames. The fact that you can hear him appearing in a locker eliminates his potential to catch survivors off guard. He is stronger than Sadako, but does not get to mid B-tier to me. I mean, a killer that depends on which map are you playing does not feel quite right to me.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,817

    the average 2-hit killer downs survivor's in roughly 45 seconds. 45 seconds chases is not enough for efficient gen teams. you usually need like 30 second chases to win, but very few killers have 30 second chase times. 45 second is when survivor fails to loop properly. If survivor is successful at looping the killer, the chases can be 1:30 long or 2 minute long which is easily 3-4 generator chases vs strong teams. you can think what you want about tier's. personally I think most killers can beat low-average survivor teams at base-kit, so just about every killer is like b-tier average if played right but beating best teams is different ball game. time efficiency is needed and dredge is opposite of time efficient.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,420
    edited November 2022

    Try Make Your Choice/Floods Of Rage on Dredge.

    Everyone after the first hook has one health state, and by definition you're not camping or tunneling.

  • That... is completely irrelevant to everything I just said?

    Why would running a build that encourages not camping or tunneling on Dredge alleviate me hating him when playing as a survivor due to his zoning and hit-and-run playstyle?

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,369

    He's pretty meh. His anti-loop can be denied pretty heavily by pre-dropping because he has to place his remnant on the spot and then loop around as a very slow husk. The survivor can use that window to chain the tile. I just drop the pallet as soon as he goes to place the remnant and then he's kind of out of options for that tile unless I've really zoned myself. It's not like a Clown bottle where he can throw it to the long side of a tile while he plays the short side and still get the hit either way.

    Nightfall is super gimmicky. He's never going to catch someone with a good pair of headphones off-guard. And the elephant in the room of a time mechanic like Nightfall is that survivors can just wait it out and play passively if they're in a SWF (rare, but I've done it).

    The mobility is just...ok. But it's mobility for the sake of mobility. He doesn't really have much else going for him. Kind of the same issue Sadako has, although I think Sadako is the better killer.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,420

    My mistake, I thought you meant you hate playing AS a hit and run zoning killer, not against.

  • GrimoireWeiss
    GrimoireWeiss Member Posts: 1,452

    He's okay, not really strong, but not really weak either. Could use a few buffs but overall he's okay. He could be a bit more silent in Nightfall and the locking the locker animation needs to be a bit longer imo.

  • Hensen2100
    Hensen2100 Member Posts: 339

    I don't think so, I think he has a pretty high skill cap.

    Assuming an unlocked locker, Dredge can teleport fast enough to hit pretty much any survivor directly from lockers during nightfall; most loops in the game are actually pretty unsafe assuming the Dredge player is good enough. Depending on locker RNG he can get away without kicking pallets at some of the safest loops in the game during nightfall; that's more than most of the killer roster can say

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,440

    He really is overrated. Like Freddy and Sadako, he's an M1 killer with a teleport. But talk to most people on here, and they'd call him top 4. The biggest thing that hurts him, which nobody ever talks about, is the slight delay on teleporting to lockers or to the remnant. It's the exact same thing that ruins Hag. Against good survivors, you need to be getting that hit immediately after the teleport, or else they just won't get hit. This is not even going into the completely arbitrary counter survivors were given in the form of locking lockers, destroying the remnant, or hearing the Dredge clear as day through Nightfall.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,478

    I find him to be balanced, both to go against or to play as.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,458

    For real. If locking the lockers involved not just sliding the thing in, but actually placing a lock over, lets say, 3s, then survivors would maybe a bit more selective with which lockers they close up. At least it would be a sort of secondary objective, something thats always welcome. Right now closing the things up is barely taking any time at all and even if survivors mindlessly close them all, the Dredge gets a 1s mini-stun from hitting each and every one.

  • TerraEsram
    TerraEsram Member Posts: 671

    Or make your choice/ Territorial Imperative

    If you can go into the basement, you just hook them, leave, and waiting far away that somebody go to the save

    You have always some lockers on the entrance who are not blocked by the entity, so, have fun I guess?

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,219

    First of all, i like to play as dredge. Became my second main alongeside hag instantly after its release.

    But yeah, he is map dependant, especially in the locker setting. I had matches where maps had all lockers clustered on 2/4 of the map, and the other 2/4 were wasteland (not exegerated, thats the autohaven-maps, where only trees and stones are around the gens).

    As for closing lockers, it can be annoying, and comes too cheap for survivors in my opinion (it should be used to gain a tactical advantage, not just do it because it doesnt cost you anything), but thats usually all. even if i teleport in a chase, the distance i gain is usually enough to make up the time i waste opening that locker. And usually, with good placemant, you only have some lockers you use as teleport-target anyway, so once they are free you are good to go anyway.

    His antilooping is ok, but not his strong point, but as part of "mindgames" can become unbeatable for survivors in certain positions.

    Nightfall is a fun mechanic, i like it very much. Sure, you dont come as a stealth killer then, but you take a lot of survivors map awareness away. And waiting it out doesnt work if you run 1-2 auraperks and/or the teleport-aura-Addon.

    In my opinion, he really isnt the strongest killer, but he is not weak either, and he is a lot of fun to play. closing locker or the slowdown while teleporting could be reworked (both might be a bit too much) to make him play a little more smoothly, but the real issue is the rng dependence of locker placement.

  • ColonGlock
    ColonGlock Member Posts: 1,224

    Pulling off a good mind game with him is fun and I enjoy his M1 attack. Especially with Unrelenting so I can spam it. Nightfall is very strong especially if survivors choose to heal and you catch them. I like Dredge and enjoy playing him even if I lose.

  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108

    Imo dredge needs 2 things

    A small buff to the remnant

    An addon to make it so that he breaks out of a locked locker silently

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,713

    I think some people underestimate the value of map mobility compared to chase abilities. If anything macro abilities like teleportation may be more important than abilities which directly help in chase. If chasing efficiently was the most important asset then Clown, for instance, would be one of the most successful killers. But every time you actually look at kill rates at any bracket of play you find that the top killers have abilities that enhance the macro gameplay as opposed to being only chase related.

    That’s why Dredge is decent, even though he’s not great in loops his mobility and stealth in Nightfall combine to really help him at the macro strategic level during the match. It’s also why Sadako does better than people who overestimate the importance of chase abilities think, her teleportation and stealth and passive slowdown from Condemned likewise help her macro game (though I think Dredge is a bit better in that respect personally since on most maps his teleport is more flexible.)

  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358

    He is not Sadako level trash, she's in a tier on her own, dredge is probably a solid B for me, but maybe my opinion doesn't count because I also put doc as a solid B and I'm not sure if those 2 are equal in tiers....

  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358

    He might be fine if he didn't auto tele to the locked locker when there are 2 lockers side by side, because then the survivor can do it twice in the same spot, then you are comparing 2 seconds to 6 seconds which I feel like could be game changing

  • Nun_So_Vile
    Nun_So_Vile Member Posts: 2,424
    edited November 2022

    Deserves all the praise he gets. He has a nice balance to his kit, despite some QOL adjustments here and there. I'd say overall the good heavily outweighs the bad and it's easy to pick out his strong aspects like map pressure, mind gaming, mobility, chase power, and solid add-ons. I'd say his kit works well enough together to better those strengths through Nightfall. Hail to the Lord of Darkness.

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,493

    What Im getting from this thread is that people do not know how to use the remnant in a good way, if you place the remnant and then just circle the loop, you are doing the most boring and predictable play, there is so much you can do, like fake the remnant, or doing a short burstbor change the looping direction, outside of looping you can hide the remnant and use it as a trap.

  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 6,689

    I think he's pretty decent, but probably one of the most map dependent killers in the game

    A Dredge on Midwich and a Dredge on Swamp are 2 very different games

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,464

    Dredge is good, at best weakest in A tier but is probably B tier.

  • Lekitzul
    Lekitzul Member Posts: 495

    I mean, he's like most killers, they tend to have maps they are good at, and maps that are worse. Like Ghostie is better in darker arenas. Triskster/Huntress need some throwing room. Dredge needs lockers. I think he's pretty good overall.

  • MrDardon
    MrDardon Member Posts: 4,033

    I'd say a "Hit'n Run" Dredge with Malthinkers Skull can be really scary to go against. I only went against one of them. Other than that, I'd say he is below average.

  • Cyber_Atlas
    Cyber_Atlas Member Posts: 276

    I also dont like the visualization of nightfall too much, but is close to being cool

  • Hawk81584
    Hawk81584 Member Posts: 405

    yeah.....sure....funny how others dont seem to share your struggles with him. me think you just need to learn how to play dredge

  • Saitamfed
    Saitamfed Member Posts: 1,620

    Dredge is way better than Sadako... the teleport works way better...

    Sadako can only teleport to TV's which are closer to gens and also need to be powered yet Dredge has almost all map to teleport (except dead zones).

    His cool-down is way lower than the one Sadako has

    Dredge performs better in-chase due to Nightfall, sometimes they will have a hard time seeing what's in front of them and besides, not having the red stain is a good addition.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,703

    Well, aside from my acquaintances, solely on this thread you can see people think the same, that the dredge is overrated, and actually being more on a weaker side.

    If you actually have read my first post in this thread, and still think that I need to learn "how to play Dredge", before I continue I want to ask the same question again (last time): Learn what exactly? How to use locker teleports? How to use remnant? How to basically play any M1 killer?

    If you don't want to be more specific, I don't think you should give any (unwanted) advices. Dredge is not the Nurse, when someone telling "Learn how to play nurse" - I'm not asking with what exactly, since it's clearly meant to "get good with blinks". With Dredge it's a different story, you have to be more specific.

    Lockers not going to help you get a quick down.=) At least not against a good survivors who knows what to do. Most of the time, when you're playing Dredge, you don't really want to use his ability at all in a chase. xD Survivors just getting distance on you each time you're putting down a remnant, they changing direction if you teleport to lockers, he's a basic M1 killer, when it comes to chases. He has a strong and very easy counter to his ability.

    You can't get a fast down from a chase because of that, and this is why I think this killer is not as strong as some people might think he is.

    Dredge is really overrated. I actually have seen that someone was putting him into A tier above Artist and Huntress, that was making me wonder if they are actually understand what are they even talking about.=)

  • Hawk81584
    Hawk81584 Member Posts: 405

    calling a killer weak because you arent good at using him is the problem here. its basically the epidemic of the forums. everyone says every killer is weak. and yet in the real world where the games are being played you will see a wide variety of players that are great with said killers taht people say arent any good. this is unfortunately how it works. people will start using a killer, 2 matches into it they quit using them and claim the killer is weak

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,703

    Aren't good with WHAT?!

    Ok, I'm gonna stop.=) If you think that killer is strong (or good), I'm happy for you.=)

    You don't need to prove anything to anyone, I can highly respect any opinion.=)

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 5,167
    edited November 2022

    Most players are not that good vs. Dredge.