Ruin was a better and less obnoxious regression perk than Eruption is
I'm talking about reworked 3.5.0 Ruin compared to buffed 6.1.0 Eruption
Can be completely disabled,unlike Eruption that you cant get rid of and its a soloq Nightmare to deal with especially on killers like Nemesis that have really strong chases.
I really miss using Ruin but its in current state its honestly not worth it,the regression speed is way too little and now survivors dont even bother cleansing it anymore because its so weak.
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Ruin was the most tedious perk ever. Don't get to play the game until you find two totems. If it were still a thing it'd be paired with penti for full nightmare mode.
Don't like eruption? Run empathy. You can guess when your teammate is about to go down with a decent degree of accuracy.
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Running a perk just so you can possibly counter Eruption is not a solution just like shattered hope is not a real solution to boons.
Run x perk to maybe counter x perk is not really a fix.
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Perks counter perks and killers. I dunno what to tell you, that's just how the game is. You tailor your build to counter stuff you particularly don't like.
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Empathy does not tell you when the killer is going to hit that surv, or if the injured surv you are watching is being chased at all. And if the killer has an insta-down mechanic is worthless.
You are still making clueless guesses.
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Well no, it's an information perk. It's not perfect but it gives you valuable information. If you're aware then you know where the chase is happening and what resources are available to the survivor there. You can see the survivor drop a pallet and see whether or not they're looping it and make an educated guess where they're going to go down. It's just game awareness. It's not perfect, but nothing in DBD is. If you had absolute information at all times it'd be a rather sterile experience.
This sort of thinking is an endemic flaw in survivor players. They don't want to adjust their gameplay. They don't want to split up vs. Legion, they don't want to break line of sight vs nurse, they don't want to backtrack vs. Spirit. They just want to loop the same tiles the same way between holding m1 every game. Sometimes you have to think about stuff. Sometimes you have to do things differently. This is not a flaw in the game, it is a feature that keeps it fresh.
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You are using a perk slot so that your guesses are a little less random that you would normally get. And even then you could have a possibility of a skill check triggering the moment you are 'predicting' and blow the gen up yourself. That's still no consistent to be called counterplay.
The only counter to this perk is either to be on comms or to fabricate a situation where you can see both surv and killer auras at the same time which is very difficult to do.
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I would take old Ruin over Eruption every single time. Eruption is single handily making me play less survivor (well... probably not single handily but like...73% handily).
Turns far too many matches into a painfully boring slog
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The problem is the Gen kicking Meta for killer is way too obnoxious. Overcharge alone is already too much for most survivors to handle. Even Opression is. Can you imagine if the regression on the other 3 random gens was slightly better? Opression would be the only Gen Perk you'd need. However just like always people would definetly stack other gen Perks.
Regarding Eruption, the worst part is clearly the Incapacitated effect. You won't always know if people are in chase or not and you won't know when they are going down so it's very hard to play around it.
The best counter as always is to just finish the gens faster before Eruption gets value. It's all survivors can do, be more efficient.
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I'd rather have Eruption than whatever old ruin was supposed to be.
Altho it is annoying to have to pick a perk to counter another, this way has been this way for awhile now and it's not going to change, the best way to counter Eruption is just to run Represed alliance and poping it on any gens the killer tries to kick.
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The reason I dislike Eruption is I feel it is too strong in comparison to the other perks that do similar things. It does:
- 10% max
- 25 second incapacitated
- scream reveal
- no limit to the number of gens
- triggers on any type of down
- super short cooldown
- no time limit.
So other instant regression perks include Pain Res, Pop goes the Weasel and Jolt.
- Pain Res- Only 2.5% max more, when you account for the initial 2.5% that the gen loses, Hits only one gen, requires hook instead of down and a special hook at that, doesnt reveal location although scream is still present, doesn't incapacitate. The plus is alway hits max gen and doesnt require a kick.
- Pop- This perk literally doesnt make sense anymore compared to the others. 20% current progress, so unless the gen is over 50% a single gen of eruption does more in regression alone and 2 erupted gens will always do more. Occurs after the hook. Has a 45 second time limit after the hook. One gen per hook. No notification. No incapacitation. The only plus is if you find a gen after hooking someone that has over 50% progress within 45 seconds compared to eruption only triggering on one gen.
- Jolt- Requires a basic attack so survivors avoid this loss by hopping in a locker or if the killer has an M2. 4.5% less regression, when you account the initial 2.5% gen loss, Less control over gens that get hit by it since its in a specific radius. The plus is not requiring a kick, no cooldown.
I think Eruption needs a cooldown like CoB. CoB only does the extra regression for 60 seconds, Dragons grip only triggers after 30. I think if eruption had a cooldown where the eruption expires after some amount of time it would be less oppressive because especially for high mobility killers when there is 3-4 gens left if they just kick them all they can commit to a chase knowing once they win the chase all gens lose 10% max. Either that or give it the Pop nerf and make it 10% current progress. Also slimming the incapacitated down a bit I think would nice. The update nearly doubled both the incapacitated time AND the regression amount. They 100% overtuned it.
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I would say post 3.5 to pre 6.1 Ruin is healthier for the game overall and much healthier with the deactivates upon first down condition. It incentivizes chasing and deincentivizes tunneling and camping.
@ScottJund did a good video about that as well if you want to take a look at it
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Ruin still needed a nerf, but I agree. It had counterplay and honestly I liked the perk, it was far more interesting. Unfortunately it mostly sucks now because it got overnerfed.
I would much rather cleanse two hex totems (or more if the killer brings pentimento too) than have to deal with the obnoxious and overpowered combination that CoB/overcharge/eruption currently is. It’s miserable and it’s starting to turn me off survivor tbh. And no, empathy is not a reliable way to counter eruption. It might help you a bit sometimes, but even so it’s still just a band-aid to a bigger issue.
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What if they reverted the Incapacitated timer back to 12/14/16 seconds but left the gen regression the same
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He really explains it so well,its true that 3.5.0 ruin regression meta was the best and least obnoxious one,it incentivizes chasing,now killers just kick gens all game and secure a 3gen
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It’d still be bad design even though it’d be weaker.
The solution imo is to reduce the duration but also completely replace the incapacitated effect with blocking the affected generators regardless of whether they were being worked on or not.
This does 2 things:
- Makes the perk less oppressive against solo players with a shorter duration, and also because it no longer inhibits other actions besides working on that generator.
- Prevents SWF players from avoiding the perk’s effect by letting go of gens when their teammates call out that they’re about to be downed.
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there always existed perks to find totems and u had maps aswell during that time... now you have even more perks and some got buffed, its a hex, hexes are removable thats why they are so strong, eruption is close strong to old ruin and is a normal perk, eruption would be fine if it was a hex but is not, old ruin also had a counter if u get good with skillchecks u can never get good on eruption unless u are good at tarot and reading the future OR playing with 3 friends telling u whats about to happen and even then not all the time they will tell u mate mate mate mate im about to fall down stop the reparation!!!... that is not happening not everyone is that try hard, in fact most arent..
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Because people want killer perks they can just hold a button to counter, i.e. hexes. Since Eruption isn't a hex, 10x more complaints.
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Is it fair to say that there should be SOME things killer can do that survivors don't have a straight counter to?
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Seconded.
Eruption = 40s of equivalent regression and 25s of being unable to do anything else. (10% instant regression, 5% active regression while you're incapacitated for 25s unable to repair it further)
Ruin, you could just plow through and repair it anyway, and it had no effect whatsoever. If you did get pushed off a gen for whatever reason, you lost half of the time you spent away from that gen. So if you're not repairing for 30s, then you lose 15s worth of progress. Not the innate 40s of Eruption.
Plus, cleansing hexes is the whole point of the perk. It's a secondary objective for survivors, which is a much healthier alternative to just increasing gen times, which they did instead.
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Yes, i agree. But not an effect of 10% + 25sec incapacitation that can be applied to multiple gens.
It is too much for a perk that has no ingame counter.
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Try going around kicking multiple gens at high level and see if you still win. You won't even get the down to use the perk til there's 2 gens left.
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Because at "high level" most survs play in SWF and it means nothing to them as it is made to only screw soloQ players?
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Are you trying to say Eruption is a weak perk and doesn't have much of an effect due to how hit and miss it can be to use it?
For one, that's not the experience of most survivors.
Secondly, Eruption is mostly used with Call Of Brine and/or Overcharge for a gen-kicking centric build. The killers who use this are routinely pressuring and kicking gens, which means they routinely get Eruption to pay off. For one, you always get the 10% regression if you down someone, and you sometimes get the 25s incapacitated too if the survivors are solo, which is much more powerful.
The fact that this perk is "OK" against SWF but "OP" against solo is a pretty bad design flaw.
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But then it's just DMS and PR wrapped up into one perk.... And plenty of people complained about that
Just lessen the Incapacitated time and you'll see it's usage drop
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PR DMS was complained about because it gave the killer info as well as blocking the gen.
Eruption still does that already. As the killer, you know which gens you've kicked, and you still hear the scream for incapacitated, which means you know if that gen is "blocked" via incapacitated survivor.
Eruptions IS the new DMS+PR combo already.
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It's not like the Devs thought... "let's screw over Solo Survivors"
Also are sure that every match has a SWF (If so then Duo's, Trio's or Quad's)
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Yes I am. It's why nobody uses Pop or Ruin anymore. You don't have to be SWF to finish the gen before Eruption goes off, guess and let go when the survivor's about to go down, or work on another gen until Eruption passes. You can't hide behind "solo is weak" forever. We should never have gotten this deep into discussions about this perk until we've fixed the matchmaking. I hope the devs ship the update for team MMR before they decide to nerf Eruption, which is being asked for constantly at this point.
With Call Of Brine/Overcharge, you just hit the skill check to stop the regression. Then the killer's wasted 2 perks, and all he's got is Eruption. So your 3-perk combo is really a 1-perk combo against actually good survivors. If you're pressuring gens that much, you're not going for chases that much, are you? At least not chases that lead to downs, which is the only thing that activates Eruption. There's just too many holes in that combo to call it good.
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It's not "blocked" it can still be worked on by a Survivor whom wasn't caught with Eruption
Which could mean 2-3 Survivors... the one that was Hooked (obviously) the one that is in position to save and the one that wasn't more worried about lighting a Boon/ Cleansing a Totem
Plus Eruption can't be valuable when the Killer Camps... the save could happen when the Killer is kicking a Gen... also kicking a Gen after a Hook isn't Camping
But anyway... but is that information of any use to the Killer... That Gen that exploded just lost 10% of progress and the scream came from a Survivor that can't do anything (for 25 seconds) so why chase that one
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Honestly, I don't find Ruin to be that obnoxious. I honestly find that when people realize that Ruin is a thing they double down and finish gens quick. They rarely bother to even find the totem. XD When I got Ruin, I will automatically use my toolbox, which I usually reserve to get some Sabo points.
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The usage would drop because it would still be a nerf. It doesn't change that it would be a poorly designed perk. Something doesn't have to be strong to be bad design.
PR/DMS was obnoxious because it gave regression + a super long gen block + information for the killer. The current version of Eruption basically already does that, just without physically blocking the gen and instead by preventing the survivor from interacting with anything. PR/DMS isn't really as bad now that DMS is only 30 seconds.
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That combo was never a problem to begin with if you just let go before a Survivor got hooked. The aura of a hooked Survivor actually shows before the hook "triggers". You can consistently and easily dodge that combo by letting go and then holding M1 again.
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I keep saying this but ruin was over rated. The only killer's who could make it work were high mobility killers and even then hex's have such bad locations you may not get the time needed to get value. After boons came out most people learned all of the possible spawn locations, even solo's would find it pretty quick. I never ran ruin again after pain res released. The only hex I have ran in like 10 months is plaything if that even counts.
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25 seconds of .25 charges per second = 6.25
16 seconds of .25 charges per second = 4
Plus whatever 10% of lost progression equals out to be (I don't know how to find out without booting up the game)
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Tell me you're a killer main without telling me you're a killer main,would you also like the original Ruin to come back?
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No. Still haven't refuted anything I've said, but then again not many people can.
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Lets put aside that Eruption is overtuned right now, this is what we have been doing for years now and is what a meta revolves around: something is strong, people play it a lot, others expect it and adapt, rinse, repeat. Entire killers builds pre-6.1 had been dedicated to just countering DH (Blood Echo or Septic Touch centered).
If Eruption is giving you a headache, then equip a perk or two to countering it. At one point it might not be meta anymore, because "survivors wisend up to it and counter it all the time. It ain't fun anymore." And if its really too strong, then BHVR might tone it down next mid-chapter.
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Oppression is OP? So taking 60 seconds to undo 15 seconds of a solo survivor on a gen is too strong? And that can be tapped at any point in time to stop it completely with 1 frame of animation and nothing else?
Overcharge is actually even worse than that for the first ~12 seconds, that can be again, gen tapped with a single frame of animation and stopped. It's an easier skill check to hit than DS and most survivors have no problem hitting DS.
I do agree eruption is too strong vs solo queue and the incapacitate effect should be swapped with something else but heavily disagree other gen kick perks are too strong/base gen regression is too strong.
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I don't believe the explosion causes additional regression if there was a survivor on the generator at the time of the perk activating. I'm fairly certain that the generator does not regress after the 10% unless there was no survivor on the generator to begin with.
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Amen
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DbD is not a counterpick game. This isn't Overwatch. Bringing X perk to counter Y perk just leaves you with a bad build when you don't encounter the thing you're trying to counterpick. A single perk should never be so strong that players on the other side are trying to build around a single perk. That should be alarms to the devs. But they seem to be asleep at the wheel regarding Eruption.
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Id take old ruin over new ruin anyday. Old ruin, did a gen and it still was okay. New ruin, if killer finds you all progress you made on that gen is now worthless
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Killer starts every chase by kicking the gen with Eruption. Does this obsessively for the 20 minute trial. "Shouldn't have 3 gen'd". Because apparently the killer wouldn't have just kicked those gens.
It's the weirdest logic void we've had on the forums in a while. Killers will tell you to "break the 3 gen early" as if they aren't kicking every gen before doing anything. Apparently they wouldn't kick the gens in the 3 gen. Every gen on the map is kicked obsessively. But no, survivors can definitely break that 3 gen. Do you want the survivors to spend 10 minutes on the 3 gen at the beginning or the end? Because it's happening either way and you know it.
Oh and I guess run Empathy because sometimes a survivor just looks like they might go down. Or maybe players with DbD Prime have a different version of the perk.
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If the Killer doesn't force the 3 gen, then it is somewhat of a Survivor issue. Separate the gens and Eruption becomes much weaker unless it's a mobility Killer. I have no idea what you mean by survivors "spending 10 mins on the 3 gen at the beginning".
And honestly, no. Weirdest is probably the Lucky Break rework and how everyone's complaints, including the streamers like Otz and Scott Jund, were wrong. Biggest complaint was "IT LETS YOU ESCAPE A CHASE FOR "FREE" WITH IRON WILL!!!" but then it was buffed to 60 seconds later on and pre-nerf IW existed at the time of that buff... yet no outcry. Almost as if this community is reactionary and has knee-jerk reactions to everything...
That Empathy point... I'm sorry, but have you watched Survivor moments via Empathy before? There's indicators when someone is going to go down (like 360 attempts).
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I don't know why the devs felt the need to buff a perk with the incapacitated status effect by....buffing the incapacitated part. There's a reason why, like hindered, the incapacitated effect is rare and usually doesn't last long. Rendering someone useless and unable to progress the match is really powerful.
Post edited by VideoGameMage on2
