Seeking clarity regarding suggested reworks to Eruption
I've been learning more about the game, and I've come across this topic, but I don't understand the logic behind and I'm hoping someone can clarify for me.
I've been seeing people talk about eruption in videos, and twitter, and I've noticed a few odd comments here and there on the forums; As far as I can tell, people think eruption isn't a super crazy perk, but needs a rework/nerf on the basis that it disproportionately affects solo queue while swfs can more easily dodge its secondary effect. What I don't get is; If the perk is fine and the problem is that it's inconsistent vs two different types of players, wouldn't the solution be to buff its ability to more consistently affect swfs rather than making it less punishing for the solo player?
Comments
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I would buff the regression and nerf the incapacitated
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That's the part I don't understand. That's one of the more common suggested changes that I see. But the incap is the better part of the perk when it actually works. Why not make the incap an 8 meter AoE? Or replace it with a gen block if the problem is the perk working inconsistently?
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I'd personally prefer the gen block, but we probably won't lose the incapacitated
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I see. Also for extra clarity; I'm still fairly new, and I'm a baby killer, main survivor. Is the consensus that eruption is fine, as I've been seeing, or is its effectiveness something that's debated?
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Most think it's overtuned and debate how it should be tuned down.
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Yes. The best solution would be to make it an AoE incapacitate, or have in incapacitate anyone that repaired an affected generator in the past X seconds.
This is the most fair solution, as it bridges the gap between solo q and SWF in a healthy way, which is by nerfing the advantages SWFs gets from voice communications.
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It's effectiveness is something debated...
1) The surprise factor
2) The 25 seconds of Incapacitated
3) The 10% loss of progress
4) The cooldown being smaller then Oppression at this point
There's a lot
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I see. I'd like to see more perspectives on the topic. At the moment I don't know what I don't know and I'm trying to learn x.x.
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Consider yourself smarter than the average ttv mate. If you have questions, alot of people here are more than happy to give info.
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The big problem imo is that the perk is designed to be a "trap" perk but even if you are 100% aware of it, you have no recourse other than not doing the gen until a teammate goes down (bad) or being on the gen until someone goes down and getting hit by it (also bad).
I've suggested this elsewhere but here's my idea on how to fix it:
Instead of activating instantly after a down, there is a very short buffer instead. So, let's say 0.5 to 1s after you get a down the generator will explode and apply its effects.
This makes it so survivors who are attentive can react to the killer getting a down and let go to not get hit by incapacitated but the regression will apply like normal.
This would put eruption in line with every other gen perk that has counterplay
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Yes and no.
Buffing the perk so that SWF is affected just as much would balance that discrepancy, but part of the general balance of the perk is that factor that it doesn't always pay off.
Lets say it has a 30% success rate, and it's potency is balanced around that success rate.
If you change it so SWF can't avoid it so easily, maybe it's success rate goes up to 60%. This should realistically result in halving its potency to account for the doubled success rate.
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That defeats the whole intention of the perk. The intended counterplay to the perk is the other survivors doing well in chases.
Generator kicking perks need to be powerful, or killers won’t use them, and will instead go back to using camping friendly perks like pain res and deadlock.
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You'd have a point if it wasn't for the fact that killers who run full gen kicking builds camp and get away with it bc of their perks
T. somebody who has ran gen kicking perks and camped
Also counterplay relying on someone other than yourself isn't very well designed.
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I cant believe how a single perk that could cause multiple AoE incapacitating blasts across the map while making survivors scream with 0 counterplay and only requiring a previous kick does not sound extremely broken to you
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The perk would function exactly the same for solo q. This change would only affect SWFs, so that SWFs would be affected like solo q currently is.
The perk has counterplay, based on the survivors being chased. Survivors that are repairing generators don’t need their own personal additional counterplay.
Killers that spend the game camping survivors don’t have the time to repeatedly patrol and kick generators around the map. Camping killers are glued to a hook until a save is made, then they immediately enter a chase, hook a survivor, then they are glued to the hook until the next save.
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I can camp someone out early and my perks can basically guarantee a stranglehold on the game
It just works.
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Please, think this through for a moment.
Think of the insane value you would be getting for a single, non-hex perk.
As a said before
- A 10% repair progress lost
- An AoE blast that incapacitates for 25 sec. You could even get hit even by walking close to a gen, or on a different floor that the eruptioned gen.
- can be applied to multiple gens
- does not have a reliable way to counter that does not require luck, clueless guess or god loopers teammates
- Makes survivors scream.
- Only requires a kick
This is not something one single perk should give you, not even a hex perk should give you this. This is some 2016 dbd perk level of broken.
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It would be tuned to be the same experience for solo q as it is now. If you don’t like the AoE idea, then just make the incapacitate work on anyone that repaired an affected generator in the past X seconds before a survivor entered the dying state.
And again, the counterplay revolves around the survivors getting chased, and that’s ok. Survivors repairing generators don’t need an additional personal counterplay for the perk.
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" Not. Get. Downed." Is not counterplay. Balance of a perk should not be made expecting every survivor to be able to outlast the killer long enough so that eruption does never activate.
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The current counterplay is fine. If the survivors really are repeatedly losing chases super fast, then the survivors shouldn’t be winning.
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-10% progress lost isn't that much...
-Who even said that Eruption would become a AOE... and if it is then there should be some obvious limitations
-But the time spent on getting multiple Gen effected by Eruption can mean a reset of the Survivors or a completed Gen
-Why do perks need to have a built in counter to it... run perks that help lessen the guess work involved and learn from it
-LOL... so does other perks and Doctor's power
-Yes it may only require a kick but stopping the regression only takes a tap (which one takes longer?)
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Why not just make it trigger like 2 seconds after a survivor goes down instead of instantly?
Now it has easy counter play.
However, we also had nearly that exact counter play to Pain Resonance and that still got nerfed anyway because it was "too difficult" I guess.
This all said, the killer is already only getting the reward if he downs survivors, IE playing well, of which that is good design. It also requires lots of wasted time kicking gens AND runs the risk of no value if that gen gets completed after kicking it before you can down someone.
It already has costs, risks and requirement associated with it.
I think there are a lot of other perks that are bad/unhealthy design that need changes much more than Eruption.
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Pain res got nerfed because it gave a loud noise notification regardless of whether or not a survivor was repairing the generator, which meant the killer got generator regression and had a solid direction to go to after hooking a survivor.
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Eruption is too multi-purpose for it's own good.
It damages the generator for 10% progress, regression is fine.
The Incapacitated and Screaming are problematic. You cause a survivor to not be able to do anything for 25 seconds, you cant heal, you cant do totems, etc; Screaming provides information to the killer, making perks like Thrilling Tremors or BBQ not worth running when you can get the information from Eruption.
Creating an AOE to apply a problematic effect is not the solution.
Instead Eruption should regress a generator by 10% progress and automatically block all generators affected by it. Survivors can still heal and cleanse totems, thus not entirely being unproductive for the 25 second duration, and the slowdown would be good against SWF since it would have a guaranteed proc of it's effect (in a hypothetical sense, AOE can still be avoided, it would just make things even worse for SoloQ).
Eruption would work just as effective as before since it's strength against SoloQ is made worse but it is more reliable against SWFs. And with the Call of Brine and Overcharge meta it is not going anywhere with the changes I suggested.
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No, that's not why it got nerfed. It got nerfed from it's synergy with Dead Mans. If Dead Man didn't exist the perk would've never been nerfed.
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The community hasn't let me down yet ^^. It's a very good thing to have a source of voices that know way more than me imo.
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I appreciate everyone's replies thus far, it's helped me understand that the debate goes a lot deeper than the perception I once had about the general opinion of the perk.
Though I do want to clarify a couple things; When I suggested the AoE blast as a possible fix, that was a spitball based on my initial perception that the community considered Eruption to be a good perk, but poorly implemented because of how one sided it was towards solo players vs swfs. Though as far as I've observed, it seems most agree that eruption needs a change, and can't agree on what that change should be.
I also read a reply which asserted that counterplay relying on others is not good, but isn't that DBD in a nutshell? I can't name a single instance where I've escaped without relying on my teammates unless the hatch was involved; Either through doing gens while they loop, or looping and relying on them to get some good gen progress. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how that's a bad thing.
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You'd be correct on all assessments. We'd like to add/elaborate that most people do not like the counterplay for eruption relies on your teammates instead of something you yourself can do.
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I'd like to add when taking teammates's skill into consideration for the balance of a perk, it is often done on equal skill level for both the survivor and the killer because it makes no sense to compare the extremes with each other(a baby trapper against a god looper 10k hours survivor).
Said that, many people claim that eruption is 'balanced' believing that every survivor must be able to last an absurd, unrealistic amount of time in chase against every killer, so that this uncounterable strong perk would never activate.
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They should rework Eruption to something like this.
Eruption
After kicking a generator, it becomes trapped. Trapped generators are highlighted in a yellow aura.
When you put a survivor into the dying state, all trapped generators are blocked for 20 seconds. While these generators are being blocked, any survivor within 6/7/8 meters have their aura revealed to the killer.
Trapped generators return to normal post effect.
Perfect rework. Solo queue won't get punished for not queuing with SWF, and SWF can't counter the perk by communication. Perk is toned down and affects all survivor groups equally.
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That makes a lot more sense. In that light, it seems similar, though not exactly the same as the concept of pain res + dead man's where sometimes your teammates can disable your ability to counterplay it. The difference being that chase duration is much more ambiguous versus having to sacrifice more perk slots to make pain res + dms harder to play around.
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Yes but pain res + deadmans is able to be countered by you. You are able to see the survivor just before the hook action meaning you can let go before the boom. Its in full control of the survivor in question (resisting snarky comment here...) while eruption the survivor must rely on their teammate.
Also sorry for the delay but we're on vacation with pokemon
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