http://dbd.game/killswitch
I love Dead Hard
Dead Hard doesn't need to proc to get value from it. It lets survivors waste the killer's time for free every chase since killers must wait it out or get heavily punish. It can also let survivors get extra loops for free. For example, Otz didn't swing in the last loop of this clip when he could have gotten the hit due to the risk of Dead Hard.
It also allow survivors to try to 360 the killer while they are waiting out Dead Hard. Survivors can also still get lucky with their Dead Hard if the killer waits long enough and decides to swing. I don't know who thought it was good design to make killers wait out Dead Hard before every down but it isn't. It's just annoying and unsatisfying. Otz, one of the most skilled killers, frequently mentions that Dead Hard is a major nuisance. He explains his hate for it here https://clips.twitch.tv/CloudyUgliestChickenSquadGoals-ih6QsWm5I2w7X-cE. OhTofu thinks that they should have just deleted Dead Hard instead of reworking it (https://clips.twitch.tv/ClearExuberantBunnyGrammarKing-C3J6QHsG0GGlEE7g).
Comments
-
Wow so much "value" gained from DH, he got downed 2 sec later thanks to it. BHVR pls nerf!!!
(EDIT: OP sneakily edited his post! initially had only the 1st clip)
Post edited by ImNotBobDylan on6 -
The main point of discussion here is that Dead Hard is annoying. It being strong is a different topic. Though, if you want a scenario where Dead Hard buys a lot of time, I could probably find a clip where Dead Hard procs and extends the chase for a minute.
Secondly, you are forgetting that you have to wait out Dead Hard for most chases, so you need to add up the time wasted from all of the chases rather than a single chase. Say Dead Hard wastes 3 seconds per chase and you take 10 chases, that's 30 seconds of time wasted every match for free.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on2 -
Oh come on... You can safely use a DH in front of the killer only 1 time, when killer don't know if you have one.
After first use, the killer will expect it for the rest of the match, and just wait it up...
The main problem with DH were solved (distance), I think this is the healthiest and fair perk now.
5 -
I mean i always take 3 health states into account by now. Which makes it more like an action pvp than horror. At least i dont fall for the spin into DH no more.
its still as annoying as it was before. Its definitly weaker. But the annoyance of this perk didnt go away.
0 -
of all perks the healthiest? are you sure about that? there is like over 40 perks. And dead hard, out of all, is the fairest? you cant be serious.
0 -
If you know that this survivor have a DH and you still not waited it out - thats your skill issue.
Survivors can't use it for distance (unhealthy) anymore, and I do think that this perk is completely fair now.
1 -
It's not for free. Both the killer and the survivor have to use their brain. If the survivor is incompetent then he'll get nothing out of DH. I play both with AND against DH all the time and the perk is close to balanced. That is, balanced if the killer has decent ping, because if the killer is VPN'ing then DH is useless, as BHVR for some reason thinks it's a good idea to have a 0.5 sec reaction-based ability be server-sided.
Yeah please share your clips of insane clutch DHs, I'd be curious. You're going to share your own clips right? Oh never mind you won't, because you've never played with the perk, you've only seen it on Youtube.
1 -
having to wait it out is annoying too you know? it still steals time. Its nerfed, that doesnt make it less annoying.
If a house burns down to full and another house burns down only half, both famillies are going to have a bad day. same with Dead hard. Its not THAT MUCH of an unfair, overpowered perk anymore. But it is still as annoying as it was before, even nerfed.
Its not possible to make this perk right, because of its nature. Like some other perks too. Im glad its not the old one, but i still dont like it.
0 -
"After first use, the killer will expect it for the rest of the match, and just wait it up..."
That's exactly what we are complaining about here. The need to wait out Dead Hard or get heavily punished. Reread my post.
1 -
It is free. The survivor just doesn't have to press Dead Hard early and the killer is forced to wait out the DH, which wastes their time for free.
"Yeah please share your clips of insane clutch DHs, I'd be curious. You're going to share your own clips right? Oh never mind you won't, because you've never played with the perk, you've only seen it on Youtube."
I don't know what your point is here. What's the purpose of me sharing clips of clutch DHs?
1 -
The point is to make sure you're not full of bs and actually play both sides of the perk before claiming it is unbalanced. You claim DH is OP? Then play with it and prove it's OP, it shouldn't be very hard since you pretend DH is "free" right? Because, if you're only here to relay Otzdarva's quotes, then I'd rather discuss with Otzdarva or wait for his next video about how DH is OP, rather than have someone quote 30 sec out of context. In case you didn't know, the last time Otz discussed the survivor meta perks, he even rated Sprint Burst higher than DH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1us6aSJSk
So to me it looks like you're only quoting 20 sec of Otz's random survivor complaint - while he was probably on his 59th winstreak and still got 4K along the way - and concluding that because a top 5% MMR killer sometimes loses to DH then that must be the reason why you're losing to DH too.
DH requires skill to use and the fact you can't even recognize this shows that you haven't played with the perk at all. The game has never been as easy for killer as it is now, especially when broken s*it like NOED and DMS stil exist that give more undeserved wins than all the DHs in the world (at least, for 95% of the playerbase). DH right now is incredibly frustrating to use on the survivor side, especially against high ping killers, so if BHVR wants to address the perk I'd rather have them look into that.
Wasting 2 sec of killer time at the cost of a perk is ridiculously not worth it. By your own logic then Sprint Burst and Head On should be way more OP.
1 -
"You claim DH is OP?"
Actually I didn't. I just said it was the most annoying survivor perk in the game. Though, to answer your question, I and most streamers consider DH a top tier perk.
"Then play with it and prove it's OP, it shouldn't be very hard since you pretend DH is "free" right?"
No need for me to play survivor to prove my point. I claimed that DH was an annoying perk. This is something that you will only know from playing killer.
"Because, if you're only here to relay Otzdarva's quotes, then I'd rather discuss with Otzdarva or wait for his next video about how DH is OP, rather than have someone quote 30 sec out of context."
I've been watching Otz for a long time and he very frequently voices his hate for Dead Hard. This isn't just a one-time situation where he is mad. Here's a more detailed explanation of why he hates it https://clips.twitch.tv/CloudyUgliestChickenSquadGoals-ih6QsWm5I2w7X-cE.
"In case you didn't know, the last time Otz discussed the survivor meta perks, he even rated Sprint Burst higher than DH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1us6aSJSk"
False. That video was released near the DH rework when people didn't have much experience with it. His current opinion is that DH is the strongest exhaustion perk. See https://youtu.be/QEA7Pc8_NsA?t=1891. You can also watch that section for Otz's opinion on the strength of the perk since you wanted that.
1 -
So you're admitting Otz was wrong on DH, and at the same time totally believing him when he talks about the exact same perk now...? Who tells you he won't change his mind in 2 months? Speaking about Otz, since you think he is a reliable data point to decide balance, his killrate has been 76% since the June patch, does that sound balanced to you? Can you explain why when he's playing as a survivor he escapes far less than <50% ? Can you explain why almost no survivor streamer can reliably get >50% escape, even the ones with 4000 hours, despite DH being so free and easy to get value with?
I agree with you that the perk is annoying. Especially against high ping killers. But you and Otz never play with this perk so you can't realize it is WAY more annoying to use on the survivor side. Watch survivor streamers for a while. They miss most of their DH, once in a whilethey get a baby killer and that one ends up on Youtube, but most of the real games, they die without the perk proc'ing and then they spend the whole game complaining about ping. If DH was OP, then the killrates would not be at 61%, and killer mains wouldn't be able to get 10+ win streaks against survivors who use it, and I'm not even talking about Otz and popular streamers, I've reached 36 myself (all 4K, recorded) and almost every friend of mine has reached 10+.
Yes, DH is still the best exhaustion perk, but that does not tell us much, since you are almost forced to use an exhaustion perk in a survivor build, and you cannot use more than one at the same time, so basically, DH wins by default, if DH is 1% better than SB, then DH should always have 100% pickrate and SB 0%. Then when you make DH slightly less good than SB, suddenly SB will get 100%.
0 -
... requires skill to use? Playing with a good connection, I've seen a surprising amount of reaction-based DH since I started playing again. I don't think that counts as much skill. It's like easy mode rhythm gaming.
0 -
its not about OP its about annoyance and still overly used.
0 -
If you're a killer with good ping and who swings easily, then yeah you'll get screwed by DH a lot, but from the survivor's perspective, you're the only killer that allowed it maybe in their last 5 games. As I advised to the other poster, please try it on survivor's end too and you'll realize the perk is WAY more frustrating as survivor currently. Not only that but after you have played with DH you'll know how to counter it (as is the case with most things in this game). You'll also realize that the perk is straight up broken when the killer has high ping you can't make it work once, because by the time you see their lunge it's already too late.
As OP showed in 1st clip, reactive DH can simply be baited, if you get hit by this then that's totally on you. Once you know the maps & tiles you won't fall for it anymore. The much better case where DH is arguably strong is when used at vaults and pallets (like in OP's 2nd clip), but this requires way more effort to do than it looks; and can be countered with killer mindgames (in 2nd clip, Otz got mindgamed twice, it's not DH's fault, this is a 100% skillful interaction).
0 -
I know HOW it works and can be baited, but that doesn't make it a 'skilled' perk. Seriously, the definition of 'skilled' is not 'wait until person ACTUALLY swings if the connection is good' or 'the threat of pressing a button means I can get to something safe'.
"Spot the correct animation change" does not skill make.
0 -
The definition of a skillful interaction is that it depends on one or both players skill. Let's evaluate which scenario is more skillful.
Scenario 1: Dead Hard exists:
- Killer must predict whether the survivor will DH now or not
- Survivor must mindgame the killer into thinking they are going to DH now.
Either party can win as a result. A good player will, on average, win the interaction more often.
Scenario 2: Dead Hard does not exist
- Killer presses M1, survivor dead
0 -
What I would like to know is how survivors have become significantly more skillful at timing new Deadhard over old Deadhard. You could pretty much expect someone to use Deadhard within 5 seconds of being within striking distance prior to the changes. Now survivors have nerves of steel and can easily wait out the bait & react with their cobra like reflexes to hit Deadhard at exactly the same time as a killer swings.
You still see players who you can easily bait out i.e legit DH users, but you also see a hell of a lot of players that are using scripts to automate DH.
It's just a bad design and open to abuse by people using auto scripts.
2 -
It's away better to play against then previously but people that defend the interaction of "waiting it out" as interesting gameplay are lost. Sniffing someones neck is so boring and tedious. At least blight can bait it out easily just as before rework. As a side note I have seen way less auto dh since their hacker update.
1 -
"So you're admitting Otz was wrong on DH, and at the same time totally believing him when he talks about the exact same perk now...?"
That video was released on 24 July 2022. The Dead Hard rework patch was on 20 July 2022. That video was literally made based on 3-4 days of experience of new DH. Those were his first impressions of the perk and were expected to change as he gained more experience.
"Who tells you he won't change his mind in 2 months?"
The difference now is that his opinion is based on 4 months of gameplay and not 3-4 days. He has far more experience with the perk and his opinion is unlikely to significantly change.
"Speaking about Otz, since you think he is a reliable data point to decide balance, his killrate has been 76% since the June patch, does that sound balanced to you? Can you explain why when he's playing as a survivor he escapes far less than <50% ? Can you explain why almost no survivor streamer can reliably get >50% escape, even the ones with 4000 hours, despite DH being so free and easy to get value with?"
No need for me to explain this. The point of this thread is that Dead Hard is the most annoying survivor perk not that Dead Hard is strong. Forcing the killer to wait out DH before every down is poor design. The thread also isn't about DH proccing or not. It's about always having to wait out Dead Hard before hitting the survivor.
1 -
In relation to its strength, yes
0 -
DH is now much, much fairer gen before, but it's again on top of the exhaustion perk list, because it can activated when needed and, while more skillfull then ever, lead to lots of lose/lose situations for the killer.
My biggest gripe is how it affects the flow of the game: until someone has revealed their exhaustion perk the killer must assume with each survivor that they got DH, leading to killers hesitating and second guessing every swing. Imagine if you had to carefully approach a gen and do some voodoo every time you start working on a gen for the first time or you risk getting injured, that's about the situation killers are in.
I don't know how to solve this, though. BTW, DH totally disappears once you leave the MMR softcap behind, as the lower skill players just can't get value out of it.
1 -
lmao
0
