Can we stop letting Survivors benefit from Killer powers?
Wraith can be light burned, Clown's yellow bottles can make Survivors faster, and now grabbing the banner/standard from the Knight gives benefits.
Comments
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This is only 3 killers? You make it seem like half the killer roster has elements in their power that benefit survivors.
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thats 3 too much.
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He forgot to mention how Nurse can be Lightburned.
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What's wrong with this? None of these scenarios ever happen anyway and it adds risk reward.
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so its 4, even worse.
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I feel like thats just counterplay? And playing against survivors who actually use the gimmics against me is minimal...
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yeah because its so difficult to pick up Knights flag. And its not only deleting the power, it also gives a boost and endurance. really fair.
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Nurse deserves it.
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because you fail to press shift+W i bet.
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If you think that's counter-play to Nurse I have some news for you.
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Nothing wrong with a power having a slight weakness to it. Hag traps, artist set birds, Wraith when cloak, Spirit when Phasing and Nurse trying to blink can all be stop with flashlights. The knight weakness is fine.
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it works for me when vsing a nurse. Its what i anyway do with all killers since im not good at loops.
Slight weakness yeah XD knight over here BUFFING survivors.
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Those 3 mean nothing. With the way these killer's powers work these "buffs" are trivial.
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but how will we stop survivors for crying that a killer has no counter play even if they are a D tier
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it does mean that the killer is handicapping themselves by using their power, knight is the most significant one. Thats not good game design. Survivors have enough counters alredy, pallets, vaults, flashlights, various 3 health state perks...
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u can't!!!! i will always cry no matter what. joking.....(well only kinda)
just like u can't convince a killer who been beaten by a well coordinated team that they wasn't a swf
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tbh i don't blame them sometimes the solo synergy feels too SWF lol
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hahaha yeah.
Majority of my teams be trash or average but once in every 20 games the stars align and u get that squad of players who counter every move the killer make almost instantly.
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Same for Oni. You have to earn his power, then when you get it, you tell survivors you have it, then you politely tell them when you activate it 😅
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Damn, 99% of my Nurse games are lost from lightburn.
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You forgot about Nemesis giving healthy survivors a speed boost when hit with his whip.
That said I am okay with some counterplay
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Don’t forget Myers and Ghostface giving survivors a head start at chase while they stalk.
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i dont agree with anything "benefitting" survivors apart from the flag system
lightburn for nurse and wraith is meant to be counterplay, i dont agree with it existing for poor wraith but devs be devving
clown bottles only buff survivors if you significantly mess up, i think that pink should cancel out yellow not the other way around tho
but with the flag its awful. you try to use your power in chase, and then the survivor get adrenaline bc they ran into a particular spot with 0 risk and 100 reward
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There's definitely more TBH, OP is just bad at listing them.
- Wraith can be lightburned
- Nurse can be lightburned
- Hag flashlights
- Clown yellow bottles
- Plague never cleansing against her.
- Nemesis gives speed boost on first hit.
- Soon to be knight.
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....kinda fair giving u can instant down.
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bird lady set crows can be remove by flashlights as well
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As a Clown main, I have yet seen a survivor run to my yellow bottle to gain distance. The only time I use them during pick up, kicking gen/pallet and try to smack someone on a strong loop.
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All of these besides the lightburn are for balances reasons, counters, or useless.
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This is very true but in what universe will that work? Nurse can charge for a hot second and TP to you before you get that off.
Granted, I haven't seen anyone pull that off continuously.
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It's pretty useful against comp Nurses I've seen
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I do agree that Knight giving survivors a speed boost and endurance is pretty stupid. BUT, the other's you list are basically unaffected by it, nor are these things that the killer gives survivors. It's just a way to counter their power. The only one who's really badly hurt by it is Wraith, which even then, can move faster than they can turn so just zigzag and make them waste battery.
The other 3 that are affected by flashlights are Nurse, Hag, and Artist. 2 of them can either shut down loops entirely and force you to just run away until you eventually get cornered. The other one is Nurse. I can promise if you're light burning a nurse she's allowing you to do that.
All 3 being some of the best killers btw.
But yet again, item counters aren't the killer GIVING a buff. It's just a counter to the character.
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Wraith is invisible, indetectable and fast whilst cloaked. There should be a counter to this, and it's not even base kit.
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Knight is the most egregious example and he is the newest Killer. The vast consensus is he is not that strong yet him using his power can give Survivors a significant boost. Best this does not become a trend. I predict you will see him a fair amount for a day or 2 then he will hang out along side Twins as a Killer almost no one plays. Certainly not like Wesker who is well designed and we still see quite commonly.
Disagree with some of these. Using flashlights on Hag traps does not give the Survivors a benefit. If you don't cleanse against Plague, you are permanently exposed. I also don't appreciate being called bad.
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^ look at this noob cant even W against 333% speed & through walls killer
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The counter is called doing gens, and having the awareness to see his shimmer/hear his snarling/hear the extremely distinct bing bong that is only hidden with specific addons. The hell kind of take is this?
While I think some of the reasoning and examples are a bit of a stretch, I do agree with the concept that a killer's power shouldn't inherently come with a counterintuitive flaw. Its one thing to give counterplay, but another to make a power actively work against the killer, especially one that relies on things outside of the players agency (such as AI pathing and logic.)
Getting the banner should just remove the chase. Giving buffs for doing so is extremely bad design, and actively discourages use of the power.
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Doing gens is not a counter, is the objective
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My point was that stealth actively removes gen pressure, so he can't be invisibly stalking all 4 survivors at once. If a stealth killer is stalking every survivor they have absolutely zero map pressure, and every time they cloak they're removing what pressure their TR provides. Thats not even talking about how much of an impact healing has on completely negating their progress toward getting survivors out.
The numbers game is 100% shifted against stealth killers if you literally just hold M1 on gens and don't get downed instantly. They have to win and lose based on the circumstances of the match, including people complaining they're OP when not utilizing their laughably intuitive counterplay of actually doing your objective.
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lololololol
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Still waiting for them to remove nemesis's infection 3 hit mechanic. a mechanic that has zero advantage for killer and only helps the survivor. I like playing nemesis, but I dislike having long chases because of dumb drawbacks.
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I think their idea is to make the illusion that Nemesis getting stronger (from short range tentacle 3 hits, to better range 2 hits & break pallets).
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Okay, now I am interested on how a comp team can lightburn a nurse cuz knowing me, I would ######### my pants before I pull that off, lol.
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I really love Nemesis' tentacle, but every single other part of his power is so badly designed. Even ignoring the zombies, the infection mechanic exists as a middle finger towards big trashbag man.
Compare it to Wesker's and the problems are obvious. Both Wesker's and Nemesis' power can be split in two pieces:
- Nemesis' power can be used to damage or to break pallets.
- Wesker's power can be used to damage or to move around the map.
However, while Wesker's power starts out at 100% power, Nemesis' starts at 50% power. Wesker does not begin the trial with reduced bound range or unable to slam survivors into walls until he's infected enough survivors. He just has his power. Nemesis' tentacle strike instead doesn't begin breaking pallets until he's infected at least two people (or hit the same person three times).
You can counterplay Nemesis in the same way you can counterplay Oni, by predopping pallets and trying to keep your distance as much as you want. However, while Oni's reward for eventually hurting somebody is immense mobility and instadown capability, Nemesis' reward is... getting to hit the same survivor two more times!
Now the pallet-breaking capabilities of the tentacle strike are pretty amazing, but while Wesker's power may be less directly useful in chases (although it's not like it isn't very good for entirely different reasons) the fact that it also lets him apply pressure all over the map for little cost makes it leagues better. Nemesis, for contrast, falls into the camp of very good chase, zero pressure killers just like Deathslinger or Trickster.
But wait! You could make the argument that Nemesis, just like Wesker, does have a little of map pressure in the form of vaccines. I think this is the most insulting part of his kit, really. If it were for everything else, Nemesis would be a firmly mid-tier killer. But the vaccines just make him infinitely worse than he should be, because... they're free survivor pressure. Unlike Wesker, there's no imminent existential threat caused by the infection. Even if Nemmy catches you with your pants down, you still go down in two hits like any other killer. This means that you don't really need to vaccinate unless the position of the vaccine is convenient. Which means... well, you don't actually waste much time by vaccinating. And even if you do, you get your time refunded because the next time Nemesis wants to chase you, he'll have to hit you three times all over again.
The infection mechanic ends up working more for the survivors than the killer most of the time. Especially considering that, for some reasons, infections caused by your zombies don't count towards your leveling up, which means survivors can strategically choose to get infected by zombies during chase to gain a free sprint boost. And if they do that while you're in Tier 1, f**k you, not only they've gained huge amounts of distance, but they've also denied your power further!
Nemmy doesn't need much. He doesn't need to be an S tier. But he does need his power to work for him and not against him. I'm not going to go as far as to say that his tentacle shouldn't give any sort of speedbost, but that should be reduced. Hits by zombies should help him tier up and should not give survivors a speedboost when infecting. The number of vaccine cases should be reduced and/or it should take a much longer time to vaccinate (at the very least it should take as much time to use the vaccine as it would take for Nemmy to catch up when running at you in a straight line after he's given you a speedboost).
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I've seen this once, during competition. One guy saved his teammate, Nurse wasn't able to make second blink because of flashlight aimed on her back and went on a cooldown instead. This move pretty saved the teammate and let him gain distance, otherwise he would be downed. It was the first time I saw that Nurse can be burnt this way. This move felt as rare and astounding as witnessing supernova tbh. Impressive.
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thats just basic counterplay to certain killers
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The only killer that has a genuine issue with this is Nemesis. Survivors shouldn't be able to dictate whether he can break the pallet or not and zombies shouldn't hand out free speed boosts.
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i think his design is suppose to be that as you level up, his zombies become stronger. pallet break and tier 1-3 ranges should just be base-kit.
shrug. I mean I like playing nemesis, but I would like to not lose 3 gens at the start of each trial from dealing with 3 health-states. the zombies are pretty weak. not enough movement speed and bad detection range. All nemesis add-on are complete pointless. you could all of them entire add-on list base-kit and it would barely change anything. As a result, I do not bother with add-on's. I just play him for bloodpoint's and endure his bad mechanics. nemesis power design just reminds me of a survivor main designing killers. it just makes chuckle every time.
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Don't forget Self-care and Flashlights....oh wait.
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By now you aren't listing powers that benefit the survivor anymore, you're just listing powers counters.
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Actually it is. Probably 90% of killers give survivors stuff for free to use as counterplay. I've explained it many many times.
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Really? So your survivors when you play Wraith just don't take advantage of while you're in cloak? They can spam vault to prevent you from vaulting or breaking pallets, but they just don't? Or when you play Hag, they don't trip the traps from a safe distance? Or when you play Leatherface or Artist, they never locker tech?
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