PSA: if you don't like getting tunneled, don't BM the killers that don't tunnel
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You act like killers don't tunnel regardless if the survivors bm or not
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Exactly this, if I'm being a chill killer, don't teabag and clicky click at every pallet, that's how you get teabagged to death
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That's my point exactly. If a killer goes out of their way to play fair then gets teabagged at the exit gate, there's a high chance the next group will get tunneled.
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I BM if they camp or if they are trying to tunnel someone out to get their attention.
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Okay, but camping can be a viable strategy. I had a survivor mad at me last night because I managed to get two people on hooks practically right next to each other. Now, in this sort of situation does it make sense to camp or to yeet myself to another corner of the map? I camp both, as it's twice as rewarding. I explained this to the survivor, and they understood after, but they were sure salty beforehand.
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I'd still teabag you to see if you'd crack and come find me. Teabagging can also be a viable strategy if it gets the killer bothered. I don't understand why killers are so against it. Annoying them can lead to making mistakes.
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"I don't see why people are against my being deliberately annoying!"
Very hard to understand, that. Can't imagine why people prefer friendliness and sportsmanship.
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Yes sir.
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Well to a larger extent OP has a point, most of the survivors I've seen BM usually do it to the nicest killers, and I say that as a survivor main. When I was playing killer, I would even seen some survivors tbag me after I literally gave them hatch, multiple times. I usually give 0 ######### about it and still give hatch to most survivors, these guys are viewed as losers by killers AND survivors.
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It depends on how you see the game. There's nothing friendly about camping but people who wanna win use it. If BMing a killer can take their attention from a hooked teammate or a teammate who's on 2 hooks already I can also accept it as a strategic decision.
What about killer seeing Dwight with no prestige and deciding to tunnel him cause he is probably new, is that friendly and sportmanlike enough for you?
A killer who is BM'd will continue to play the killer and can even win.
A camped survivor won't actually play the game for 2 minutes.
The thing is DBD is not one thing clearly. Is it casual or is it trying to be competitive, as it is now it is trying to be both, that's why people have different ideas on how the game should be played.
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That's typically because those survivors will only ever get the chance to BM against the nice killers. Tunneling and camping, whether you like them or not, are very valid and very powerful strategies for killer, that help secure a win that much more. Survivors BMing the few killers that don't tunnel just incentivizes THOSE killers to tunnel.
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There are definitely survivors who do that, but I am not sure they are the majority, it's simply easier to remember them than the survivors who did nothing to you.
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I don't tunnel or camp unless I'm BMed when I play Killer. Then I tunnel and camp them out and usually let the survivors farm me for points. BMing is toxic and only creates toxicity as a response.
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That's you though, ask any killer who wants to win and they'll say "camping and tunneling are legitimate strategies (at high MMR)".
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Ah, there's the false equivalence. "You're playing the game in a way I don't like, I think I can be rude for its own sake and claim it's strategic".
It's completely backwards logic. You don't start with a gameplay advantage that happens to get on people's nerves, you're starting with being unpleasant for its own sake and hoping that it translates into bad decision making. That's not competitive behaviour, because that's the sort of thing that can get you penalised in basically any actual competition.
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In competitive DBD there are perks that are banned, does that mean people who play those perks or add-on combinations are being unsportsmanlike then? They would be penalized for breaking the rules in competitive DBD for playing broken stuff, both killers and survivors, therefore going full sweaty Nurse with her best add-ons must mean the killer player really is an ######### then.
What about killers who camp because they know survivors will get salty. Is camping still a strategy in this case or is it BM according to you?
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No, but behaviour that wouldn't fly in a competition regardless of game balance and meta can't be defended as just being competitive and trying to win. It's pretty simple logic.
If you can prove the Killer's doing it to antagonise the Survivors, yeah. If you can't, then no. Again, teabagging etc. has no such defence. If you do it for an advantage, it's entirely because you know that it's going to annoy someone. Any relevance it has is inseparable from trying to make sure someone else isn't enjoying the game.
This is not, and has never been, complicated.
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DBD gameplay makes it hard to determine intent, so I would not assume that survivors are even thinking about whether you are a nice killer or not or noticing that you are not playing as ruthlessly as you could. More often they will assume you made some sort of mistake rather than you are a nice type of player.
I play "fair" because it makes me feel less dirty. I don't need survivors to validate it, although many sacrifice themselves to me like cultists in gratitude for my fair play.
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lol at playing nice for the survivors sake. that's silly. i'm like devotion 24 and i've had 1 survivor give me a kill when i had a terrible game and played fair. I've had plenty of games where i get my first down at like 4 gens done and they still hard gen rush. survivors give 0 ######### about the killer player
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People are against it because it's nothing more than a behavior to ruin someone's day. It has no point other than making someone feel negative. People only do it because they know there's no recourse. It's a cowardly act. Ffs you never know when you're playing against someone whose mentally at the end of their rope or had a disability that makes it hard for them to cope with things like this and it pushes them over the edge.
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The point of the thread though isn't whether or not it's legitimate; it's calling out survivors who BM Killers that don't camp or tunnel. I will lose games that I could have won if I had camped or tunneled because I want the survivors to have a good time playing as well and I still occasionally get BMed.
I don't think anyone should start BMing anyway but, especially if the Killer isn't camping or tunneling, BMing the Killer is just acting like a terrible person.
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I mean if your bming the killer then what ever happened is your fault. But generally speaking killers seems to tunnel even if the survivors isn't bming mainly because it's the best strategy
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They do but the OP was talking about Killers that don't camp or tunnel and still get BMed. It still happens; not with the same frequency I've heard people who do camp and tunnel describe it but it does. Especially if somebody is deliberately avoiding an overly effective strategy as they're considering the enjoyment of the other side although there is no onus on them to do so nor any responsibility for the other side's enjoyment then why give them a digital middle finger? Teabagging as an insult is the same as bleeding out four survivors just because; there's no strategic point to it and it's just being done in an attempt to ruin the fun of the other side so it should be called out.
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I don't and I still get tunneled :(
They simply can't resist the Steve
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if u are that into that problem maybe u shouldnt be playing a game and isntead focusing on getting those issues fixed with a professional.
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Well the difference is easy:
Killer camping/tunneling -> strategic value -> upsets the target
Survivor tbagging/clicking/BM -> upsets the target -> strategic value
Ergo survivor use the annoyance and frustration for strategy while the killer strategy causes annoyance/frustration.
And I personally think of the first as worse. Inducing a negative emotional state in someone for an advantage is worse than the strategic advantage having the side effect of causing a similar state. Meanwhile i don't do either but was regularly subject to the first without provocation, the reason why i ultimately left the game.
Edit: A better comparison to killer camping/tunneling would be for example survivor flashlight saving (not clicking) or (mass) hook bodyblocking. Both are annoying but are mostly done for strategic value and have the frustrating aspect which makes people call it BM only as a side effect.
Btw I'm not saying that no one is using them just to cause frustration, just that in general it is a inseparable by-product.
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Because it's to annoy, which gives no advantage. But camping, which actually increases your chance to win? Naw, that's the annoying thing killers shouldn't be doing.
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I'd get that if we were talking about mid-match BM. I was specifically referring to exit gate BM here, which serves no tactical purpose.
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How is there no recourse, you're playing killer. Killers all the time say they'll tunnel the guy BMing them. You have more agency than the survivor, are you serious? I said something and people ran with it, while I said nothing about BMing killers who are new or not really doing anything. Jesus. What about a killer who tunnels and camps then, should he think of the survivor they're doing that to? Because tunneling and camping make it feel personal,w hat if the survivor being tunneled or camped is the one unwell mentally or has a disability? Is their drive for win more important than the well being of the person on the other screen?
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If you're good in chase, sure trigger killers to make them making mistakes a strat.
But you should think for the other survivors that vs them in later match.
I had a Wraith tunneled David to death at 3 Gen left, seems like it was a try hard Wraith so I just standing under a hook to let him hook me, Dwight unhooked me after and Wraith back to hook down both of us then shake his head like he just out played us good. Dwight didnt even care enough to run away, so I was.
I can not even tell if that Wraith was actual toxic, or just pay back to later survivor teams because Wraith vs players like you in previous matches. Because I went rampage for weeks after facing my first ever toxic squad.
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How can you prove a killer is camping you antagonistically when camping can serve two purposes?
If you run 4 slowdown against solo survivor no one is enjoying that game besides you either. Please defend that as well because it is a "strategy".
If a killer tunnel and camps because a survivor teabagged him last game as this thread makes mention, then he is making the game un-enjoyable for 4 other people. But I am glad that doesn't bother you at all. I guess survivor tea-bagging you one game is a greater offense to you that you find it justifiable to take it out on other people. Great principles right there.
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You would not believe I played as Steve, after I got 2 hooks, 2 teammates run around the Plag to annoying her, body block for me to run away in Lery. She still track my blood from half a map just to make sure giving her 3rd hook of the match for me.
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Dude, take your bias somewhere else please.
I've always defended camping and tunneling because I know they're strategies and BHVR obviously supports them. you don't have to get baited over stuff just cause you're a killer main. I am having a conversation with another person who probably believes in playing killer in a "fair" way. You've got nothing in common.
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Ok so survivors now are expected to think both of the killer AND the survivors next match. But the killer can only think of himself and be the victim. Seriously? He is just getting a power trip really. Maybe killer should think of what kind of killer he wants to be and not act as if he has no agency over his actions at all.
"If I don't bring 4 regression perks SWF won't allow me to play"
"If I get t-bagged by one survivor at the end of the match future survivors will pay for it".
"Remove SWF because communication should not be in the game, the game loses its horror aspect".
Yeah go ahead and try to justify Wraith tunneling out David or when they tunnel out new players because it's "strategic", that totally doesn't make the game unfun for that player because Wraith had a reason.
Even if he used that as a legit strategy it still remains unfun, but no one is tripping over themselves to preach to other killers. Somehow a survivor tbaggging you at the exit gate for 5 seconds is a bigger deal than making the game unplayable for people either by tunneling them or face camping them or slugging them.
I hope you feel proud how because of one toxic survivor you took it out on who knows how many other survivors. Is that really enough reason to justify going on a rampage? It sounds unhinged when killers get as triggered, honestly.
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Okay while that's a valid point, where the hell did you specify that????
Surely not in your og post?
Edit:
Ah okay found it.
Sorry, but saying it in ONE COMMENT as a PART OF A SENTENCE is definitely not being "specific" for your whole point.
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You can prove it if they tell you. Otherwise, you can't, duh.
And if playing the game with the perks provided in the game is unfun for everyone (and actually unfun, not 'I can't win this' unfun), then that's a game design problem. Not a problem of player attitude.
As for your final point? That's just a strawman, I never said that was a good thing or acceptable. If you look back, my contribution was that doing something which has the primary purpose of being annoying is disliked.
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I mostly play survivor nowaday. Eventhough I understanding toxic spread toxic, I still hate Wraith for the nature of most Wraith players are tunnelers with Noed.
That "rampage" was years ago when I just play the game, it wasnt one survivor, it was a Headon squad with old OoO and I played as Wraith (uncloaking cause obsession see my aura all the time), literally nothing I could do. If you think a few tbag can cause the misplay on killers. You can image vs a toxic Headon squad.
A month later I stepped forward over revenge behavior. Now Im that 1% killer who play Trapper without any slowdown perk and still play fair. Kill means nothing to me.
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T-bagging is crouching and getting up really fast. Crouching has no purpose to be annoying, it's a game mechanic. It's simply easier to spot crouching fast and attribute meaning to it, but the point is that killers action can have both meanings. And t-bagging your teammate can also have many meanings.
Yeah, go on defend 60% winrate and tell me it's because "you can't win". As a survivor you're supposed to lose 40% of the time (including playing with SWF, how that number can go playing solo we can't know yet). Now what winrate 4 slowgen perks have we don't know either, if it's even higher then your argument still is wrong since that would mean winning against that build is even more difficult. But sure go ahead and blame my "incompetence" if it makes you feel better.
My point is that you didn't contribute anything to this thread until you started answering to me. I didn't even say I t-bag at exit gates killers that did nothing wrong and mentioned the situations I would do such thing and the strategic value it could bring which you would rather ignore. But it doesn't seem to phase you when your fellow killer mains act unhinged and say stuff "if you tea-bag me I'm taking it out on the other survivors". I like how it escalated from one person being a dick to them, to you being a dick to multiple other people. Maybe they're not nice after all and were simply looking for an excuse. But I'm sorry, for you it's probably justified.
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If you went on a rampage though the people who probably payed for it are DBD's punching bags already. Solo-survivor. Not even another SWF. and I understand no one is an angel, which is why I find it ridiculous when people act like they are but they were just provoked and had to take it out on other randoms (not a hypocrite at all).
Thing is this is a game and people still have egos and both killers and survivors have things they find extremelly annoying because it can get to them. I personally find it silly killers get so triggered by tea-bagging for any reason and many times I agree when survivors are tea-bagging a new killer it's extremely poor taste and unnecessary. But killer isn't some bullied role with no agency, let's stop pretending this is. It 2022 and not some other year were killer was in the dumpster.
Wraiths do be tunneling though, i cannot argue with that. I also hate Wraith.
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You're being two-faced. Within this same thread, you've considered tunneling unfun and unjustified. Why frame it that way if you wholly defend it? And we do have something in common in that we've tried to make playing fair work, but I've grown tired of losing because of it and have changed my playstyle accordingly.
If I'm biased, it's at least because I have an opinion. Not trying to play every side of every issue like some people do.
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I'm not playing every issue. I'm trying to make an argument to a person who claims unfun things are annoying and saying tunneling a newbie or facec-camping are unfun and they're being a hypocrite if they against one type of unfun but for another type of unfun and I'm giving them examples.
Just because I find it unfun doesn't mean I don't justify it being in the game, go look at the posts I've made in the forums if you wanna be anal about it and you'll even find me encouraging killers to play that way, the unfun way. I'm simply saying if they care so much about being a good sport, that includes caring about those aspects of the games.
If anything I'm being pretty consistent, cause me defending t-bagging as a strategic aspect of the game is quite consistent with my track record so far over tunneling and camping.
You just said it yourself, you want to win. if I want to win why can't I use killer psychology against them? People who don't want to win at every cost play "fair". You are not the same despite both playing killer. And just by the way they frame it they find a different aspect of it unfair, so it's only natural they find t-bagging annoying. What is weird to me when people who want to win under any circumstance still find t-bagging unacceptable although it can also save a purpose for survivors. Pointless t-bagging is pointless, being toxic to be toxic with no strategic merit. That's all I've been saying.
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Since when has bm has anything to do with killer loading in with tunneling in mind every game
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Just to be clear, your position is people battling depression, mental illness, or have a mental disability shouldn't play a game to try and find some happiness or temporary relief so people that like to go online and bully others can continue to do so?
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The difference in tunneling and camping is they're part of how the game is played. They're viable strategies. Now killers doing things like hitting you on the hook, forcing you to bleed out, or holding you hostage by bodyblocking is something different. What recourse does a survivor gave against that? What can a killer do against a bully squad that spams loud noise notifications and t-bags at the exit gates? None of these are functions that should be allowed to remain in the game. They serve no purpose other than to allow scumbag players to act like the scum they are.
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