Dead Hard is more popular then ever
Dead hard being the most used perk still after a rework and a nerf is mindboggling cause survivors see it as a high skill perk now if you can force deadhard consistently getting insane value distance then old dead hard ever could.
Devs are going to have to purposely make this perk bad so nobody uses it and here's how.
1.After use gives the survivor 8% hindered
2.Distance when hit gained -75%
Comments
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LOL
Imagine people liking a perk so much in a game where the most fun is had during a chase. 🙄
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Sadly, making something "so bad that no one is wanna use it" is not the solution. For a while DH was in a really good place, that was when no one could reliable use it killers could for a while just strike and down someone, when they cornered them and got within striking distance.
Now they have to "bait it out" again against everyone who hasn`t shown their exhaustion perk yet, no matter if they got DH or not. But "nuking something from orbit" should only be reserved for the most broken stuff that can't be salvaged any other way.
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A player having an ''additional'' health state will never be bad even if the condition to use the perk is hard to trigger and it will always be worth the effort (The value you get from this perk is insanely high, basically if you manage to use it 3 times during a match that's 3 free health states that you got from a single perk) At this point the only nerf I can think of that can probably kill the perk is to allow players to use it only once per match like DS.
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on2 -
Nerf? Deadhard was buffed, that's why it's even more popular than ever.
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Literally dead hard is right back to where it was
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"Devs are going to have to purposely make this perk bad so nobody uses it and here's how."
lmao before the nerf DH had 40% usage, now 27%.
Also, are you surprised? After Eruption being meta for killers survivors don't want to get down as early.
looks like survivors are adapting to Eruption's popularity :)
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I don’t think the two are connected. They both work well for their intended purpose and both are a nuisance for the other side. I do like your representation. Could be right but I just disagree. Good post.
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That, and those other top perks, don't surprise me at all. They're the most played for a reason.
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It can't be salvaged. As long as the perk exists to make a killer hesitate with their hit, it's gonna be broken, because that forced hesitation lets them get to the pallet/window. It's a third health state which doesn't get deactivated like OTR does.
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I mean, Decisive Strike and Mettle of Man don't really see any use, but they still give you an additional health state, conditionally
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Being the most used perk doesn't make it more popular than before nerf. According to official stats, is usage dropped by half. According to Nightlight, it dropped by a little less than that (keeping in mind Nightlight users are usually higher skill on average than regular players).
It's not more popular than ever, and it doesn't need a nerf.
Also more generally, just because Otz makes an observation about one thing doesn't mean it needs to be adressed. I know people dub him a god, but good gracious...
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Ngl I started using Dead hard after the nerf only because of the Iron will nerf. DH is probably the only exhaustion perk you can still usefully use with Iron will.
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Old Dead Hard PTSD means the only time there won't be any complaints about this perk is if it outright kills you after you use it.
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I doubt survivors put on DH because of Eruption. I've been using it long before Eruption became meta. It's just undeniably the best chase perk. If you use it in loops it's surprisingly reliable as long as you have pallets or windows available to force hits.
Even worse is the "wait for DH" game in higher levels where survs will spin in your face and hold their DH. It just feels bad to play against, difference is now you need more skill/low ping to use it.
I'll keep using it because it works so damn well against average killers and is in many games by far the highest impact perk you can bring. But I still dislike it conceptually, forcing killers to be scared of simply swinging for a down.
Post edited by MrMori on0 -
It should either briefly cause hindered OR there should be a few iframes where it can’t be used after certain actions. It’s utter BS that you can mind game a survivor as they vault back over a pallet and instead of either grabbing them or landing a hit they somehow manage to vault and then DH through your attack.
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The problem with Deadhard is that it made chases longer before the patch and still works great to do the same thing after. Pop was the counter to this perk in many ways because it made gens take dramatically longer every time you got a hook. In times past I could regularly get 6-9 pops on a crucial generator. That's two or three minutes of extra time for the other time to finish their objective. That was a game winning perk.
DH needs to get nerfed so something like a blanket change so that you have reduced speed while hurt ( even before you use it) OR :
DBD needs to move to a system where perks are limited in a SWF so they can't be repeated.
But actually why not do both?
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lmao
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And?
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Killers already have a 61% killrate and they’re still crying lmao. Survivors just should start on hooks to make it more fair
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If its any consolation i used to run Dead Hard every build before its rework and now i dont.
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I agree, chases are so fun. But why does the community push "Theyre killers, not hookers" so hard. No one likes to get tunneled and camped. Yet it is the most effective strategy (and thats intended!!)
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I thought survivors were bringing gen-rushing perks like Hyperfocus and stakeout.
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It already causes you deep wound unlike other exhaustion perks. When DH is dead people will simply use Sprint Burst and Vigil and then killers will start complaining about this again.
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You can't even use it against some killers now like Deathslinger and Legion or insta-down killers. What are you even on about?
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More than ever? Nope, that would have to be more than 75% pickrate which is still far from it, BUT it is slowly going up and up so... Maybe we will get there at some point again lol.
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Dead Hard was less awful when it was 0.5 seconds of parry frames, followed by another 0.5 seconds on animation lock. When people tried to dead hard to a pallet with that version, it gave killers a reasonable chance to hit the survivor before they can drop the pallet. The way the perk is now, because of server validation and latency, trying to hit a survivor between dead hard and the pallet drop is not reasonable.
Also, we were promised by the devs that we could "bait accordingly" to the perk, but that hasn't happened yet. How do I bait accordingly if I want to lunge attack? How do I bait accordingly if I want to use certain killer powers, like Pyramid Head's Punishment M2, or Huntress hatchets at a distance, when the survivor can dead hard on reaction to those things? "Bait accordingly" only works if the survivor needs to use the perk predictively. For example, if the perk was 0.5 seconds of animation lock, followed by 0.5 seconds of parry frames.
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I honestly do not care about sprint burst. Generally it gets used before a chase has even begun and if a survivor uses it, is injured and manages to get it back (even with vigil) then the killer is bad and has definitely lost the match anyway. Sure, if four survivors all had it then it’s a real pain but this is an issue with exhaustion perks anyway.
In contrast Dead Hard occurs at the point when the killer has won the chase. I suppose someone could argue that timing DH now actually takes some skill but honestly it’s really not that hard and more survivors are now pretty used to doing it. Let’s not even get into the use of auto DH cheats either. Overall I just think it’s bad, unnecessarily frustrating game design (of course, this is just my opinion).
Also I don’t really see why deep wound matters either, it’s not really beneficial to the killer.
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because it takes time to mend for the survivor and even if they get DH it back (worst case scenario) while in chase they still can't use it unlike other exhaustion perks.
When DH first got nerfed and people were using other exhaustion perks there were people starting to complaining about Sprint Burst, so I'm sure if DH really gets nerfed to the ground killers will find a new exhaustion perk to complain about because they can extend chases.
Killers wait dead hard all the time. When I use it after the first time they wise up. Some even know to wait from the start. You could make the argument I am bad or average and I won't fight you on that. But even if we go use youtubers as an example you'll find countless times where they fail it or get mind gamed by the killer. If you don't believe I can make you a compilation.
Those stats also don't seem that representative of the ones BHVR posted a while ago that had Self-care in the top 10. Where's self-care in those stats. Which playerbase are those stats based on?
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The perk is predictive now, it's not reactive. Devs have said so theselves and users repeat that when users who use DH complain about the latency and want the timing to be more forgiving.
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I think it is compiled data of the survivor perks Otzdarva specifically sees in his killer games.
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Ok...but doesn't that create biased stats?
For how many people are those a problem and how does it represent the reality of the average killer and solo survivor?
And it also proves that running 4 slowdowns against those perks is overkill for killer since the survivors are not bringing gen-rushing perks (just like people here claim they do). The only gen perk I see is Prove Thyself. But where are the rest like Hyperfocus?
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Yes, it does create biased stats. But Otz was specifically talking about what he encounters in his games so I think its fine for him to make observations on it. Others extrapolating on it? That's where it gets less clear.
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Who cares if it's popular? It's one of the most balanced perks now that BHVR has ever made
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No, it was reworked, that doesn't mean a nerf or buff, it means completely different
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Wow, haven't heard this joke before, completely original
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Nah, as a killer main, new DH is leagues more balanced than abomination we had before, if the survivor has good timing they get rewarded, if the killer is patient they get the down, no more uncounterable crap (there are some cases but they are very scarse).
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“More than ever” is blatantly false, but yeah.
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It is getting to the point where BHVR is gonna need to nerf it again.
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DH punishes killers for having a good ping, which is the exact opposite of what server validation should be doing. It might need to be predictive on lunges if a player has bad ping, but if both players have good ping, then survivors can absolutely use it reactively sometimes.
Some killer powers have a loud audio cue, that dead hard can be used reactively, and some survivors are still using it reactively to lunges. The parry window is this perk is so easy compared to many other PvP games. Anyone that can parry in other games, can easily reactively DH in this game.
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Good ping punishes killers even when survivors don't have DH.
But if you wanna be less biased just say, killers with bad ping are rewarded more often. And there are many people who want that fixed.
And why should having good ping not be rewarding in general? In every other PVP game lag is punishing. In Lol, if you have good ping you can react to Malphite ult with flash, but if you have high ping you can't.
DBD is like the only game that rewards bad ping. I cannot believe people dislike good ping now.
But what do i expect from players who play a game who are alright with solo having no ways of communication and survivors are OP (but only when in SWF).
Having good mechanics should be a rewarding experience for both survivors and killers. Why should it be a non-factor for survivors? We accept Nurse exactly because she requires some sort of mechanic. We can accept DH as well. Good survivors should be able to win.
If you want the game to revolve around gens and co-operation then you either have to be ok with the game implementing more communication for solo survivor or SWF. Pick your poison.
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I don't have any problem with the new dead hard
sometimes I kind of get myself thinking: "wow... I can't believe they timed that this good"
But on the same note, when they do I don't feel mad cause it's really not easy to be patient enough to wait a last second to use dead hard, so when they get it right I feel they deserve the extra health state.
I do get why the old Dead Hard was frustrating, your hit literally went through survivors and they got distance, but now I see more people failing the new one than managing to use it right and when they use it right you still connect the hit, making them have to mend for a few seconds thus wasting their time.
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We were told there was going to be a meta shakeup, and the most popular survivor perk in my games is still the most popular survivor perk in my games. Going from #1 to #1 isn't much of a shakeup.
We were told we could bait DH, but I can't do that when both players have good ping, and when I'm using a lunge or certain killer powers.
I just want what the devs promised us.
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I don't mind the new dead hard as much because I get bp for the slap instead of swinging at the air.
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First of all, most people don't follow updates. Not just in DBD but also in other games. That's why last time the released perk usage Self-care was in the top 20 although admittedly DH had gone down, but I'd argue it's easier to see the difference between old DH and new DH than it is to see current Self-care and Self-care before the last nerf.
Out of all the exhaustion perks DH is the most rewarding to get right no doubt. The thing is that Otz's stats don't seem to have self-care on, so what playerbase does it represent even? And even if DH is first is it still as effective as it once was. Again I'll mention Self-care, despite it being prominent many people here at least can recognize how bad it is, but the rest of the playerbase doesn't seem to have caught up yet. So we'd need more info for DH if it is as effective as it once was and if it's the exhaustion that actually leads to more escapes or if it's just an annoying perk for the killer to deal with (like say boil over, although boil over isn't as common).
Also 6 or 7 of those perks come with a free character or are free for everyone. That also has to account for something.
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We don't need additional info. Survivors aren't using it for nostalgia. They're using it because there are still many scenarios where the killer can't avoid it, or more importantly, situations where trying to avoid it is worse than allowing the survivor to get a successful dead hard parry.
DH is still overused, and should be evaluated again for a nerf. Any perk that tells killers "just don't lunge" and "just don't use certain killer powers" needs to get nerfed into orbit.
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