http://dbd.game/killswitch
Is Counter-Picking A Good Argument Anymore?
This is just a general question, mainly regarding arguments, debates, and discussion from the forums.
I always see on the forums, "if you are tired of ____, just run ____" but also see people say "well it's dumb you have to run ____ to counter ____".
DBD is not really a game where counter-picking is normal since you do not have the ability to readily know what you are going against and change your build, but it can be done in niche cases (like running Built To Last to counter Franklin's Demise if a whole team is using Flashlights, just to name one example); but it really seems like people are super inconsistent on explaining where counter-picking is acceptable and where it isnt.
Let's take a perk like Fogwise for example. People say that Fogwise is OP and has no fair counterplay. Yet perks like Gearhead and Fearmonger counter Fogwise. People might say it is dumb that they have to run either of those perk just to counter Fogwise.
Another example I see is Eruption. Eruption can be insanely difficult to deal with in SoloQ. Aura Reading perks help against it, but do not provide a consistent way of dealing with Eruption. People constantly say to bring Aura Reading perks, but wouldnt it be dumb to have to bring perks to counter Eruption? Furthermore, Aura Reading perks can still be entirely negated when Fearmonger is in play.
So, what exactly is it? When and where is counter-picking an acceptable argument? Or better yet, is counter-picking even a legitimate argument to make to begin with?
Comments
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Counter-picking is never a good argument. You can’t change your loadout once the match has started. Expecting one side to run a certain perk or addon explicitly to counter something else is dumb.
I can see 3 CoH and wish I’d brought Shattered Hope but I can’t go back in time to do that. Or I can go against a Plague and wish I’d brought a toolbox instead of a medkit, or go against a Blight with Lethal and C21 and wish I’d brought Distortion, but I can’t. Whether something is too strong or not shouldn’t have anything to do with whether some other perk or item on the other side counters it or not. Some perks are effective at shutting down other perks, eg. Fearmonger pretty much hard counters Fogwise. But that has nothing to do with Fogwise’s balance.
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Kind of the thought I was having. But it feels like people only really use counter-picking as an argument where it is convenient to them and only them.
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I lean towards not needing to run perks to counter thing specifically as you said. Unfortunately the devs seem to disagree given things like shattered hope existing and CoH being left unchecked, so I guess that’s their stance.
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Counter-picking is actually available in other games (like say League) but it depends on your turn. If you have to pick first you don't really get to counterpick much but you can always play something safe.
Killers currently have somewhat of an ability to counter-pick against survivors because they see items. If they see 1 or 2 flashlights and they don't enjoy going against flashlights they just bring Lightborn. If they see a lot of toolboxes they can bring gen-slowdown etc. Perks they cannot counter though, but survivors get no such ability against the killer.
I think it would help if survivors could at least see their team's perks. If I see there are at least 2 people running chase perks etc. I might try to bring something for gens and focus on that and vice versa.
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For reference, there are currently 219 perks in the game and 30 Killers. You can only choose 4 perks. So counter-picking is not really a thing. Anyone who says "just run X perk" is being disingenuous.
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But that's how perks work. The vast majority of perks are not universally useful, they're situational.
Unbreakable is used when you get slugged. If you don't get slugged you've wasted a perk slot.
Off The Record is used when you get tunnelled of a hook. If you don't get tunnelled you've wasted a perk slot.
Lightborn is used when you get blinded by a flashlight. If you don't get blinded you've wasted a perk slot.
These things have conditional circumstances that either activates them, or makes them useful, and by their design they are counters to those situations.
Repair perks are a counter to 3 genning.
Gen regression perks are a counter to gen rushing.
Healing perks are a counter to injuries.
Everything is a counter to something, it's just a matter of how specific a circumstance you're talking.
To say that "You shouldn't have to run Lightborn to avoid getting blinded by a flashlight" flies in the face of the entire purpose Lightborn exists.
Aura reading perks are a counter to things that can be countered if you can see the killer or survivor, and Blindness is a counter to aura reading perks. That's just how the game works. So those aren't invalid arguments.
This doesn't mean Eruption is fine as it is, but those are counters to Eruption. Both things can be true at the same time.
The question is "Is the counter a fair cost, and does it make up for the discrepancy between SWF and Solo?" and the answer is "probably not."
Post edited by Seraphor on3 -
I think counter picking is a valid argument.
You use perks to counter things that you most hate the other side using. The counter is there any other exist. It's like when people complain about Survivors body blocking but then they don't use the perks that counters it.
This goes for both sides. If you hate being slugged then use perks like unbreakable to help mitigate it. Otherwise you shouldn't complain about it because you could have used a counter you just choose not to. That's on you.
But i also feel its a different question of is the counter effective to justify the use of counter picking
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Blindness counter aura not oblivious
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I've never liked the argument. You have a useless build for every one time you guess correctly on a counterpick. You have no way of telling what perks the other side has in the lobby in a pub. It's not like comp where killers are decided beforehand and a survivor's item will tell you their build because the meta is so static.
Shattered Hope is useless if no Boons go up.
Empathy is useless as an Eruption counter if the killer instadowns.
DS is a wasted slot if the killer doesn't tunnel.
Enduring is useless if survivors pre-drop. Brutal is useless is survivors don't pre-drop.
I could go on.
Builds are literally a guessing game if you're trying to counter specific things. You're better off building for guaranteed value that comes from your natural playstyle.
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I don't think people complain about these things in a vacuum. They complain is that you have to make a leap of faith. Ok so I hate slugging, camping and Tuneling. So I bring Unbreakable, Reassurance and Off the Record. That leaves me with one perk now so i'll probably use an exhaustion perk. Well what do you know, the playsyle of the killer is not countered by any of those things because he wants a slow game and keep his 3gen. What am I supposed to do now? Hope my teammates have a perk that deals with gens?
You go in completely blind as survivor, not only against the killer but against even your own team. Why can't we at least see our team's perk? Maybe then I can try to bring something that I feel the team lack, you know?
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Of course, thanks.
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You use it as a safety net. Something to have in your back pocket if the situation comes up.
I do agree though you should be able to see other survivors perks as you can probably plan ahead but when it comes to the killer you have to make the choice of when and when not to use something.
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I mean if there's a perk or an item you -really- hate, why wouldn't you bring something to counter it? People bring perks that counter tunnelling because they hate it, same thing.
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I usually play whatever I feel like and enjoy, but sometimes, when I get burned the whole night by a certain item or perk, I might run a counter like Franklins, Lightborn, Sloppy or even Shattered Hope. But this usually only lasts for a couple of rounds ^_-
Still, if you absolutely despise a certain item or perk then yeah: counterpick it, thats what niche perks are there for! Not everything has to give you 100% value each and every game and its the counter pick gotcha moments that are a lot of fun. If you always just chose the perks that will give you the big payoff, no matter what, well, yes, then just pick whatever is the meta build of the season. But other builds are also viable and counter picking your own pet peeves (@Pulsar :*) can help a lot to make the game more fun :)
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