Hex Perks are rare nowadays, and it's easy to see why
TL;DR: the hex mechanic is bad on most perks and needs to change. Totem locations are still terrible and should be adressed again.
Back in the day, one hex perk was meta: Ruin. Other hex perks were used from time to time, NOED being probably the second most popular, strong but still an endgame perk. No other hex had an immediate strong effect like these two, but aways had a chance of being cleansed early and leaving you with an empty perk slot without doing anything. Even Haunted Grounds could end up being cleansed when you had no healthy survivor near you and and so not doing much. Ruin had this problem too but was used a lot due to being the best regression perk and to the lack of alternatives (for a long time, Pop was the only viable alternative to Ruin).
I've commented before on this forums how I liked the Ruin nerf, since I hated the fact the best perk for slowing down the insanely quick gens had a chance of deactivating permanently in the first 30 seconds, and now we finally have alternatives. HOWEVER, after Ruin and NOED got nerfed, Hex Perks became extremely rare, and the first reason is obvious: it's not worth to take a perk that will probably be gone in the first few minutes instead of one that lasts for the whole match. The mechanic is underwhelming by default. No wonder why the better two at the moment are Plaything and Pentimento: the way their totems are created and their effects cleansed are different. They don't use the same mechanic that makes other hexes so weak. The other hex perks need an overhaul to change the way they work too.
Of course, other things made hexes become so unpopular: with Boon Totems, survivors seem to be more aware than ever of totem locations and look for them even before knowing there is a hex in play. And then there's the downside that plagued totems for years: many totem locations are just terrible, being either extremely visible or taking place right beside survivor's main objective, the generators.
I remember devs changed a few totem locations back in 2018... but I wonder when and why they decided they were fine and needed no more improvement. I leave a few examples below of totems I've seen in my matches in 2022. Even though some are months old, I haven't seen a single patch note or dev update talking about totem spawn changes.
Clearly visible in front of a high spot where a gen is located.
To think I hoped the rework would fix the totem spawns on this map...
This is from february, but right below there's a more recent screenshot. It's still there!
Just imagine, if you go to the shack in a chase or to look for a gen there, you'll find a totem for free!
Just a reminder: this was one of the latest reworked maps.
Well, it can't get worse than this.
Come on, the corn is not hiding this. It's near a gen too!
Yeah, there's tall grass, but just imagine for a second if this was lit. It would be hard not to spot a shining flame in the middle of the grass.
FInally, these two are fresh from today:
Comments
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My ######### comment disappeared. The gist was, playing against Legion is unfun and tedious, and it has nothing to do with whether you win or lose. Legion is broken, period. I would rather play against any other killer in the game and get absolutely stomped on than play against Legion and win. He is a fun sponge. He sucks any and all fun out of the game for everyone else and keeps it for himself.
You KNOW that people hate playing against him and you choose to do it anyway, therefore you are knowingly choosing to ruin the fun of the survivors you’re versing. Now you are complaining that they are in return ruining your fun by DCing. It’s ironic and hypocritical. Yes, he’s in the game and yes you have the right to play him, but that doesn’t mean you SHOULD play him. However, if you still choose to play Legion, knowing full well how unfun he is to play against, then in my opinion you have no right to complain when people DC and ruin your fun in return
I don’t condone DCing, but I completely understand it. No one wants to waste their limited and valuable free time playing an unfun match. And they shouldn’t be forced to. This is why BHVR hasn’t instituted a strong or harsh rule and punishment for DCing, and I don’t think they should. What they should do is rework Legion into a killer that obeys the rules of the game and is fun to play as AND against. Until then, when you choose to play him, you do so knowing you are ruining others’ fun and that they are very likely to ruin yours in return. And in my opinion, you deserve it.
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Wut? Wrong thread, dude?
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The reply is from March 2019 (before Legion got reworked). I guess we have a time traveler here.
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totems has always been a problem and they won't fix it ever
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My favourite is that you can WALK INTO the one in the corn or the grass. It actually gets in the way.
Although the Ruin nerf's doubly funny: if Survivors DON'T cleanse it, it's gonna go bye-bye anyway if someone dies. That's great, perks that delete themselves on top of being removable before they do anything. And being slow and easily worked through.
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How is that even possible lol
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Honestly, I think Ruin disapearing on its own if a survivor dies would make sense if Ruin was still strong as before (a countermeasure against those rare situations where Ruin stayed up all game and, if the killer applied enough pressure, Ruin STILL functioning after the first death was overkill). But on its current state it makes no sense, Ruin barely does anything when it's on anyway. If anything, might be a handicap, since you can't combine it with any gen-kicking perk.
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I guess the game has so many bugs it's just fair the forums have bugs too, lol.
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what they should do is when the match starts, hex perks are active but the totems still need time to spawn so it takes like a minute for totems to build and appear to survivors and they spawn randomly is hidden places
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Sometimes I can still get some use of Devour Hope, but it seems to be the only Hex perk that is still truly worth using, and it is still a big risk.
Nice time travel.
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I am so glad I did the cleanse hex achievements a long time ago
Imagine how much less boons would be used if once snuffed theyre gone forever
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They overnerfed Ruin... simple enough
But the fact that they haven't figured out how to change the spawn points yet... isn't surprising
Then again the only Hex that was cleansed at the start of a match was Ruin
I wish I recorded my matches (before I stopped playing) and watched them back with this in mind
Like if Ruin wasn't in play the Hex stands a little longer... cause and effect
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Oh, I only did it after the update that nerfed Ruin. It was painful, I had to bring at least one boon every match regardless of what build I wanted to try and HOPE for the killer to bring at least one Hex. It was a long time occupying my build with a perk I didn't want to only because I wouldn't ever be able to complete the achievement otherwise. Sometimes Plaything would give me a good amount of progress and once I even went against a Clown with a full hex build, but most of the time there would be no hex and, when there was, someone would find the totem and cleanse it before I had the chance. For this, not only I had to take CoH with me, but I had to pair it with Detective's Hunch to make sure I would find the totem as soon as possible.
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"I wish I recorded my matches (before I stopped playing) and watched them back"
You and me both.
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Dude, it took me 3 matches as a Hag to understand, that Hex perks are with you only for 2-3 minutes of the match, even less sometimes.
Since then, I'm not using any of those. (maybe 3 years ago already)
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The Dream is collapsing!
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My memory isn't as sharp as it once was... either I only remember the bad moments or misremember something
I suffered from a stroke a year and a half ago so that's most likely it
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Oh, I am really sorry to hear that, my friend.
Hope you're doing okay <3
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It was a small one... yea I am fully recovered from it
But remembering things and struggling to say what I want (the point I try to get across) is a bit hard
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Honestly I refuse to use hex perks. So long as totems continue to spawn near generators, then they will continue to be cleansed within 2 minutes or less. I played in match the other day where we went against a Huntress on Midwitch, and I literally spawned in the same room as her hex devour hope. It was gone within 10 seconds of the match starting. Needless to say it felt good as a survivor, but I couldn't help but feel for the killer! LOL
Having perks like that appear next to a survivor's objective or spawn point should never happen.
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I'm a big fan of Hex : Third Seal, but part of it is that I think it's maybe the only hex perk survivors just... don't bother to look for. At least not systematically.
The effect is so minor, right ? It doesn't slow the game like Ruin, it's not lethal like NOED or Devour, it doesn't even make chases difficult like Blood Favor... Better plow through those gens and progress the game !
Yet when the time comes to go for the unhook... Teammate only has 20 seconds left until next stage.... WHERE are they hooked exactly ?
I refrain from using it too much because I know I'm mostly going against solos, and that it's a bit overkill against teams with no coordination.
But I do agree that most hex perks are too fragile for their effects. They'd deserve either to be buffed or to be protected for a time - maybe only becoming possible to cleanse once you've downed a survivor.
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The hex that wins the achievement of 'should least be a hex' is Huntress' Lullaby. Or it should start at max power.
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The whole point of Hexes (IMO) are to have a powerful effect as long as the Totem stays
But now that they have put Boons in the game along with a couple perks to speed up cleansing... it leads to Hexes not being used
Like I remember a match where I was going against a streamer...
I was playing Observer Wraith:
Fire Up, Whispers, Discordance and TOTH
They cleansed TOTH about a minute into the match... but that was the only Totem they did
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I would make certain hex perk powwer related with how many totems are up.Others can be as they are.
For example hex: Ruin
5 totems 200%
4totems: 150%
3 totems: 125%
2 totems 75%
1 totem 50%
0 totems no effect
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The devs know that Hex perks suck, hence why the latest Hex perks (Plaything, Pentimento, Face the Darkness) all work differently from traditional Hexes. With almost every match having one or two Boon users, I think it's time to give killers a way to activate their Hexes again. Maybe after 4 hooks the killer gets the option to light a dull totem?
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New offering to decrease/increase amount of totems on the map?
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Yeah hexes have been badly designed and undertuned for years. They whole hex system and hex perks in general needs a thorough rework.
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I miss old undying for hexes.
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the totems spwsn REALLY need to be addressed/ with killer hexes being put right in the open with a peacon saying HEY COME CLEAN me, one of my favorite perks, devour hope almost NEVER pays off because its easily found and cleaned. most totems arent even in hidden spots, its in open spots and they should never be literally right next to a gen in the open.
Ive also spawned as survivor in a game standing next to a lit hex totem.
this is a problem and i dont know why it hasnt been addressed.
because boons are a big part of the game now and most survs with experience know where all the spawns of these totems are, hex totems by proxy have been nerfed to oblivion.
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Say what you want but you'll tear plaything/pentimento from my cold dead hands
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No time to rework how hexes are placed or how they work or how the perks are balanced.
Pallets need to be redesigned for the fourth time.
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Honestly I'd argue the concept of hex totems in the first place is just a bad idea. Way too much RNG dependance on the placement of the totem. Had matches where I've spawned in and spotted a hex within 3s and also had matches in which I never found the hex at all. Most of the time the killer had nothing to do with hiding the totem so flat out just letting impactful perks like NOED/Devour Hope etc. depend on "did I get the good totem spawn or the ######### one" is just a bad design to me.
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I was never a big fan of Hex perks from back in the days of the original Ruin meta where you would load in and instantly lose your Ruin so often it was beyond a joke. Some totem spawns are a lot better than the old days but you still get them pretty much right beside gens or out in the open, so besides very rarely risking Devour for the fun of it, I don't bother personally.
Though I guess the concept is that Hex perks are very strong but high risk due to the fact they can be cleansed
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Not much to say that hasn't been said. They're perks that aren't even that strong, can be destroyed, are overly specific, and even deactivate themselves.
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Totem locations are indeed terrible, on more than once occasion I have spawned ontop of my own hex which also happened to be right next to a generator.
A streamer I watch (it was either Otz or Dowsey, I can't remember as this was months ago) was running a Hex build for a streak/challenge and three of their perks were gone in the first minute of the game because survivors literally spawned on top of the totems.
Either you need to clense the same hex totem twice, one to make it dull and the other to fully remove it (with a cool down so the survivor just doesn't sit on it) and it reignites when left alone or they need to be harder to find locations.
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Oh no, don't tell me hackers have cracked the code of the forums either. D:
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It's a bit old, but watch some of my favorite clips.
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My ideas for the Hex rework:
Killer can pick between Destroy Boon or Snuff Boon without perk.
Shattered hope now cause the blesser Exposed for 60sec and cause them to scream.
Survivor can pick between Cleanse or Bless without perk. Survivor without Boon perk when Blessing a Hex will de-Hex the totem.
I do think there should be 1 Hex perk "activated on Hook" as basekit to make 2nd objective for survivors, in return drop Gen time from 90 to 80sec.
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Yeah, BHVR have figured out that having hexes spawn at the start of the game is a horrible idea, so I expect all future hex perks to follow the "Pig Trap" philosophy (temporary impairment that is applied on a survivor and can be removed by wasting some time). If - and that's a big if - they decide to rework old hexes, I find it's far more likely they'll be changed to follow this new design strategy rather than BHVR completely changing the mechanics of totems as they currently work.
In the end the problem with hexes is that survivors can just find them before their time. Even if you don't spawn directly onto it, just moving around to find a gen to work on or escaping during a chase lets you explore enough of the map to find most totem spots. Making it so hexes only spawn once they have a chance to do something seems the best way to go, as any other choice relies on map rng and no type of rng is something you can rely upon.
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I mean the totem spawns won't be the reason why less people use them but beside all possible arguments: Hexes were meta a short amount of time after Hag got released in .. Dec'16?
And people here asked for a very long time to change the meta. One of the recent patches just straight up nerfed perks that were absolutely fine and not too strong at all. But they got nerfed to make people playing them less and they also buffed playstyles (gen kick) to be more rewarding. And new worthy playstyles let people feel refreshed and interested how to maximize the new potential.
Even tho I'm not a fan of nerfing fine perks and instead making bad ones more fun and viable, but at least you can tell that this works also worked out.
And if you asked me? After all the years of thousands of hex perks and combination I feel pretty tired to see them back as THE meta. I'm happy about the new gen kick meta. Because at least Killers have to elaborate their wins/kills. It's not a: hey slap on those 2 Hex perks and add some cheesy gameplay to it and you win most games yay". Thank entity that this is over for now.
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When I started playing the game, I would use hex perks a lot until I realized how useless they are. Any experienced survivor knows where the totem spawns are and when go against a SWF on comms one person will just start the match as the designated totem cleanser while everyone else does gens. And often times the spawns are out in plain view as you show in your pictures. Hex perks are usually gone within the first couple minutes of the match and will provide you with little value other than wasting a little bit of one survivor’s time.
The only hex perk I’ve found to be of some use is Plaything (maybe combined with Pentimento). It’s nice that you can get multiple uses out of it and helps to slow down the match a bit more than single-use hex perks.
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Block until down would be nearly meaningless. It stops instant cleansing, but if anyone knows where it is, it's still going immediately once there's a down.
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Yes, only look to the down side.
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Simply not lit until a down would go better, surely? Presumably, we're trying to avoid 'Survivor spawns next to lit totem so the perk is going away as soon as possible'.
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For esthetic, Hex should be lit the moment it gives benefit, like Plaything & Noed. So for Hexes that take immediately effect, it should lit in the beginning.
Survivors should always spawn at Gate (either 2-2 or 1-3) to prevent spawning next to Gen/Totem
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Ah yes...I remember years ago they said they would rework hexes/fix spawn points/come up with a way where they didn't disappear in 12 seconds of a match starting.
It is almost 2023. Haven't seen a word of it since originally posted.
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Its probably never gonna get addressed now since they added boons. And they (HAVE TO) allow survivors to find totems to light boons on. Thus need to make them less hidden thus by proxy nerfing the ######### out of / making hexes completely useless/competed over with survivors. Imaging having to compete with the other side over using your own perks which were already kind of weak due to being easily discovered.
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They should make some Hex perks actually viable, so that achievements like this are actually completable in a timely manner.
And because I love Devour Hope and could stand to have better totem spots around.
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I mean map design as a whole is pretty awful and has only gotten worse.
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Recently they made totems even easier to find for some reason, probably to help baby Mikaelas set their boons.
For example on the Autohaven maps there is a truck tile which can spawn a totem at the back of the truck near the window vault. Before the change the totem was tucked behind the a piece of sheet metal and was very hard to spot from the front of the truck. After the change they moved the totem out from behind the tin so you have to blind or not looking to not find it.
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