4 Antigen Perks are Actually Good Thing
I see a lot of survivors complaining about killers running anti-gen builds and claiming it is "boring", "you don't need anti-gen perks if you are good at the game" or "excuse for being bad at the game" etc.
Do you know how miserable the game would be WITHOUT killers running anti-gen builds?
Without antigen builds:
1 Most of the games would consist only of top-tier killers (Nurse, Blight, and maybe Huntress)
2 Tunneling and Camping would be increased even more to the point where the majority of killers would hardcore tunnel and camp every game
3 Less Diversity of Killers
4 Increased Survivor Queue Times
5 More "Toxic" Killer Playstyles
Antigen builds are what actually make the game somewhat interactive instead of tunnel and camping every game— it incentives the killer to pressure the map in different areas. Killers actually get rewarded for playing well and none of the antigen perks are OP by any means (hint: Eruption isn't OP - 3 gen is strong, not Eruption by itself). Additionally, weaker killers actually have a chance to play Dead by Daylight.
If you think the game is "boring" with most killers running antigen builds, then you are really underestimating how boring it can actually get. If you take one thing that actually rewards the killer for playing well, then don't be surprised that killers would play the scummy way possible.
If you so desperately want killers not to run antigen builds, then your best bet is to make antigen perks base kit and remove anti-gen perks completely from the game.
Antigen builds are fine and actually makes this whole unbalanced game more balanced & fun for BOTH sides.
Comments
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Only if you have the corresponding Antibodies.
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Well said.
Also to add to that. Most all the anti-gen perks only give value if you play well, IE pressuring and getting downs. A bad players sees very, very little value out of any of those perks.
So if those anti-gen perks are actually slowing gens down significantly, it's because the survivors are getting outplayed significantly.
If people don't want perks rewarding killers for chases you will see more camping/tunneling.
The game is also all about time efficiency and as it stands most information/chase perks are way undertuned and don't save as much time as gen slow down perks do. This should illustrate how there's a lot of chase/information perks that need buffs to make them more competitive.
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Very true. Killers nowadays actually have to choose which gens to pressure and play well to get any use out of antigen perks. Only Deadlock doesn't require the killer to do anything, but Deadlock on its own is not that strong unless you can regress blocked gen later on.
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This seems a bit out of touch. All the things you have listed under "WITHOUT ANTIGEN BUILDS" happen now with most killers running 4 antigen perks.
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"If you so desperately want killers not to run antigen builds, then your best bet is to make antigen perks base kit and remove anti-gen perks completely from the game."
That would literally kill the game.
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So you'd rather it happen every game or some of the games? Half of the DBD killer roster would be unviable instantly without antigen builds. If you think this is the "worst" killer can play, then there is a lot to learn.
Is it a perfect situation? Absolutely not. But given how broken DBD is on the foundation level, it's still an alright situation all things considered.
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There's a difference between "happen now" and "would happen more".
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I don't think he means literally "all" anti-gen perks but speaking in a more generality.
Using 4 anti-gen perks is how much slower the games should be going at base honestly. They do nothing to slow the game down if the killer is bad anyway.
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What's your argument?
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Unfortunately, all anti-gen perks do is make camping and tunneling more effective. Especially versus teams who are chill.
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I agree, although I don't think I've ever heard survivors say it's boring, I've mostly just heard them say it's annoying. And this is hilarious because if anyone thinks anti-gen perks are annoying, then I've got a solid list of survivor perks that are "annoying" as well. But I've gotten used to them just like they should get used to annoying killer perks. There's a lot of annoying stuff in this game, but I don't think you can ever lose a match without being annoyed.
Also, Spookyloopz has used anti-gen builds and he uses it well.
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Explain to me how anti-gen perks make tunnelling and camping "more effective".
It doesn't make sense for so many reasons:
1) Killer actually has to leave the hook to make use of anti-gen perks
2) Killer actually has to hook survivors multiple times to make use of anti-gen perks
3) There are no slowdown perks that actually are passive and don't require a killer to do anything. The only such perk is deadlock which is not that great on its own. Corrupt Intervention even punishes you for playing well.
Even the old ruin/pop was one of the greatest incentives for the killer to pressure multiple map areas and multiple survivor which is why I said that antigen perks are a blessing in disguise for survivors.
By all means, if your strategy revolves around tunnelling and camping, you might as well take deadlock and the other 3 non-gen perks. Because running antigen perks and tunnelling/camping at the same time is such non optimal way to do it.
I think you are confused about the fact that tunnelling is effective, and has nothing to do with antigen perks. If you tunnel out someone at 5 gens, the outcome is already most likely decided - whether you run random build or 4 anti gen perks.
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1) Correct. Nothing is stopping you from returning to the hook to pressure two people after applying Call of Overcharged Eruption to a gen.
2) I mean, sometimes. Overcharge and CoB work regardless of your ability to hook people. Eruption requires you to down someone, not really too hard. PR does require a hook.
3) Tbh I don't think old ruin is a good example. It only really punished new players and it punished them HARD. PGTW was okay but it really only helped you win harder.
The teams that I would take 4 slowdowns against (I do not) won't let me kill someone at 5 gens. I think the best I could do would be at 2 gens. In that scenario, the game is pretty much unwinnable for them if I'm stacking anti-gen perks. I figure if it worked against the top Xbox team, it'll probably work against most everyone else.
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Gen defense is needed as soon as people are slightly gen efficient and can loop.
You decide what level that is but it's how it goes, and The higher you go the more gen defense you need inorder to have a chance.
And if you go even higher then "scummy" tactics are needed.
I dont blame killers for using the perks because I understand if my team is even close to my skill then its usually a easy win if the killer doesnt have stacked slowdown.
Theres 0 reason to loose verse a killer with no gen defense unless you are way way lower than the killers skill. Most of the games I do lose are down to a very bad team, DC or suicide over the killer being really good or "op perks" as people say
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The trouble is full gen control builds just drag out the most boring part of DBD rather than directly encourage the fun part that is the chases. You can win most matches running these builds as people bore of it and just want to go next, it is more a game of attrition as you gradually chip away at every resource survivors have by artificially dragging out the match.
I do understand why people go for a gen control build too as M1 killers can be pretty miserable on certain maps. But I just don't want to do that myself as I feel it makes matches boring for everyone. Though I would love to see changes to shake up the meta and make chases great again
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It drags most of the games because of 3 gen scenario, which comes down to the:
1) Bad map design
2) Survivors' inability to prevent 3 gen scenarios
You can easily juggle killer aggro when the last gens are reasonably spread out even as a solo. As an SWF it's even 10 times easier.
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Spot on.
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1) Should've unhooked when you had a chance and not greeded.
2) Why are you so disingenuous regarding the effort, requirements and counterplay of these perks?
Overcharge can be countered by hitting skill check, additionally, it's slowdown has to ramp up.
Call of brine can be countered by doing a millisecond worth of gen.
Eruption requires a killer to down someone and hit gen and do it in a fast way, else it's literally a useless perk if they complete the gen.
Scrouge Hook Pain Res can only work on selected hooks and is RNG-dependent.
All of these perks are strong in some scenarios and weak or even useless in others. Sounds balanced to me.
3) I'm talking about pre-nerf Ruin, not "OLD OLD Ruin"
The teams that I would take 4 slowdowns against (I do not) won't let me kill someone at 5 gens.
If they won't let you kill someone at 5 gens, then they are probably good at looping too. This means that you likely won't get much use out of your anti-gen perks anyways. And we can safely say, they can tap gen to prevent things like call of brine or overcharge ;)
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1) They would? I have the ability to use my eyes and ears. It ain't hard to follow someone recently unhooked.
2) Most players can't hit Overcharge consistently. Even good Survivors (not me) get cucked by a 4'oclock Overcharge every so often. Also, that whole starts at 75% regression thing doesn't matter if you use it with CoB iirc.
Call of Brine also isn't a simple tap and go if you use Overcharge.
Eruption doesn't work like that? You need to kick a gen and then down someone. Applies to multiple gens, nothing you can do to get rid of it and no time limit.
Sometimes you get cucked by bad RNG with PR, in my experience, it doesn't happen often. You can usually make a PR hook.
None of these perks INDIVIDUALLY are too strong. When they are put together though....
3) Ah, whoops my bad. Old ruin just brings up OG ruin for me.
They're fine at looping. I think Oso is probably one of the best loopers I've ever had the agony of going against. It's less the looping but more the bodyblocks. I did manage to 12-hook them on The Game as Legion with 3(?) gen perks. Overcharge, CoB and Eruption. 3-gens are very difficult to break out of. I was getting my ######### kicked in but managed to hold a 3-gen and wait for the inevitable mistake. One 4'oclock Overcharge and an out of position Ace later and the game is over since that gen lost 50% and the other survivors are now unable to do anything for 30 seconds.
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1) So what's the problem? If a killer can pressure gen, make it back to hook, and then get a down quickly then he should be rewarded for it no? Additionally, the person who is unhooked is not injured since the killer didn't camp so body blocking should be very easy to set up. Lastly, if killer went to gen, he probably wouldn't make it hook instantly. You can hold W as an unhooked survivor and waste loads of time. Every time I go kick gen as a killer, they unhook rather instantly when they are efficient.
2) Good players can hit them consistently. Will they miss some from time to time? Absolutely, but the impact of them missing it "from time to time" is not what will make killer win the game on average.
And I don't know why you are complaining about the overcharge + cob combo. Killer has to walk to the gen and pressure it specifically to get value out of it. A survivor hitting a skill check (or tapping as in the case of the cob) negates all that effort rather instantly. Now killer needs to go again to that gen, kick it, and not commit to a chase. This is literally a DREAM scenario for survivors unless there is 3 gen setup. I can see how killers not committing to chases can be boring, but it's actually great situation for survivors if they want to win the game.
Sometimes you get cucked by bad RNG with PR, in my experience, it doesn't happen often. You can usually make a PR hook.
It happens decently often, especially with survivors' body blocking. I run Agitation with PR, and still I don't get PR every time I down someone lol.
None of these perks INDIVIDUALLY are too strong. When they are put together though...
I disagree heavily. BHVR has gone out of its way to make anti-gen perks not be synchronized together. You can't use PR with Deadlock. You can't use any gen-kicking regression perks if Eruption procs it. DMS prevents you from kicking gens completely. Overcharge and Call of Brine do synchronize but I don't think that combo is as strong as you think unless it's 3 gen scenario.
What BHVR should do is nerf 3-gen scenarios (by reworking gen placements, or maps themselves) and buff early game gen pressure of killer. Although 3 gen is strong it's also rather straightforward counterplay from the survivors' side when the map is not super stupidly laid out. So it's debatable how much 3 gen should be nerfed.
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I like the idea of a buffed Ruin with the same it deactivates upon the death of a survivor or current Ruin losing the Hex requirement myself.
Old PGTW was pretty decent as well for its time but would synergize too well with current gen kicking perks.
One of the issues is that it's similar to playing Clown versus Nurse or Blight. At some point in facing increasingly skilled survivors you're going to hit the point where you lost because of the mechanical limitations of Clown versus Nurse and Blight. As you face increasingly skilled survivors you're going to need more gen control and you'll hit the point where you lost because you didn't bring enough to slow gens down.
Until info and chase perks are buffed to be comparable time wasters to gen control I don't really see that changing.
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I don't think it's the thing of other perks needing to be buffed. I think it's more of the case where it's incredibly easy to waste time as a survivor even if you are an average looper. Predropping pallets, and holding W (which wastes at least 20 seconds every chase most of the time) is already quite impactful to the killer. Then you also add time going to hook, and God forbid body blocking. Simply put, you don't need much skill to waste time as a survivor, and most survivors can do it with ease.
And that's with them looping averagely. Against any good loopers, you're basically toasted if you don't run anti-gen defence. Me seeing all survivor auras for most of the game won't make me able to pressure 4 survivors at once. Most good killers don't even need aura reading that much as the instincts and experience of a killer can substitute aura reading most of the time.
I think what they need to do is make killers get rewarded for ending chases quickly. Then if the team cannot loop or waste time properly, they get punished for it. And good loopers do get rewarded as gens can get done fast during those chases.
Oh wait, that's how the majority of anti-gen perks work currently. Very useful if playing well, and barely useful if playing badly.
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1) That wasn't the argument. The argument was about proper use of gen regression. You'd have to leave the hook sure, but you can pressure two people and someone has to tap the gen you kicked.
2) You don't get good players every match. Unless you think the MMR system actually works lmao. Most matches have one person who can't hit ANY Overcharge. Some matches everybody can hit them, though. Depends on how many times a Killer kicks a gen in a match. Few Survivors can hit an Overcharge that they aren't expecting, so you'll almost always get value out of the first one.
I don't know what to tell you. I don't think the Survivors I'm playing against are stupid but CoB and Eruption is all I need to win 95% of my games, most people are bad and the matchmaker isnt good.
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On Myers? Yeah maybe you're right.
On nurse or blight? More than one gen slowdown is just asking for an easy win unless your atrociously bad at them, and somehow i see more diversity when people play Myers than the aforementioned s-tier killers
And there's still some counter points on what you said, like extremely tedious 3 gen strats from the beginning of the game (killer always dropping chase), the crazy synergy between all the gen kinking perks, the fact that one is almost uncounterable leaving you to scratch your balls for the next 30 seconds, the list goes on
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1) Yes, at the cost of not running other perks. With SBTFL, you would be able to hit body blocker and then hit borrowed time proc, and hit again in quick succession. With an aura reading perk (ex: floods of rage), you'd be able to track unhooked survivors more efficiently. With BBQ, you could probably be able to do 2 in 1 (pressure both survivor and gen they're working on).
Now I'm not saying anti-gen perks are weak, but if your goal is to tunnel and camp - there are better ways to do it. Also, your example is "ideal scenario" - a generator is close to the hooked person, no one is working on it, and it's also at least 50 % done so that regression is useful + no one goes to tap it.
This, again, works really in 3 gen more than early to mid-game. Not disagreeing that this scenario happens and it's strong for killers, but usually, killers need to go to another side of the map to pressure a good gen unless they get instadowned next to a gen they're working on lol.
2) You lose 5 % when you miss an overcharge skill check, which is like what - 4 seconds? lol. And if they keep missing overcharge skill checks, then these are baby survivors. The value of that perk goes dramatically lower once people actually know you have it and pay focus. I tested it before and it didn't do much at a high level - I might test it again. With that being said, I think Eruption is superior to overcharge a lot of the time.
I don't know what to tell you. I don't think the Survivors I'm playing against are stupid but CoB and Eruption is all I need to win 95% of my games, most people are bad and the matchmaker isnt good.
Never said you don't need anti-gen perks to win the game. In fact, I agree and it's a must needed. I do think Call of Brine is A tier perk (S tier in 3 gen) and I'd put Overcharge as B tier. Though I would not take them both at the same time personally. Maybe on killers who have ways to get around the map.
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3 gen is easily preventable unless it's a very bad map and bad RNG. The real reason why 3 gen exists is that survivors actually genrush as fast as possible without taking into account tactical choices which gens to actually rush. Let's not pretend it's some uncounterable scenario that survivors are literally helpless at.
Survivors sit on the other side of the map, pump out 3 gens while a killer is chasing far away, play cowardly and then get destroyed at 3 gen. Seen it in my eyes way too many times - you've made your bed, now lie in it.
And no, lots of anti-gen perks do not synergize with each other.
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Missing an Overcharge skill check removes 15% of progress. It's a MASSIVE deal.
It's also considerably harder than DS. It spawns earlier, moves faster and is smaller.
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You're right - it's 15 %. I'll test it again in a few days to see how often players miss skillchecks.
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Go for it
I suspect you'll find it to be wildly inconsistent
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I agree. If you have pressure on a hook or 1-2 gens the survivors won't in most cases ignore a 2nd stage hooked survivor. They will get off their gen and come to valiantly save them. Also, If you leave survivors down, instead of hooked, there is 1 less person on a gen. Additionally, there is much better ways to reduce gen progression. IE Hag traps on a gen, trapper traps, or good gen patrol using a nurse/blight
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It is sad when posters like this let their bias cloud their view on balance.
Too much wrong with what you said, so I'll just say - anyone who actually thinks Eruption is fine in its current state has no idea what a healthy/balanced game looks like.
I say this as a killer who always runs 1 to 2 antigen perks, please play the game a bit more on both sides before you post again.
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This Thread has to be a Joke.
First of all, you bring 5 points. Which are actually 3 points, since 1 and 3 are the same and 2 and 5 are the same as well. And Point 4 would be a speculation, because currently, Survivor Queue Times are faster.
Second, your points would only make sense if that means that:
- People who play Killers like Nurse or Blight would not run 3-4 Slowdown-Perks and
- People who play Killers like Nurse or Blight dont tunnel and camp
I dont face Wraiths with 4 Slowdowns, just because they can play easier with that. I also dont face Nurses who play no Slowdowns or 1 maximum. The oppressive Killers also play oppressive Builds AND do unfun playstyles.
The current Killer Meta is so boring and makes the game really stale. The first thing a Killer does is not to go into a chase, nope, kicking the Gen with Eruption and Call of Brine to get the Slowdown going. And the Survivors try to do Gens as fast as possible to not end up in a 20 minute game which the Killer will win just because they prolonged it so much that even they can win.
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on10 -
Just gonna drop this again.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxvpGrZYdxHLr_piz2x9LYuLXcnlQ7vRVu
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Yeah, you will win arguments with the funny cap man...
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The 'new slowdown meta' definitely feels less fun, for both sides.
Ruin at least gave survivors a counter, that got them off gens. Whether you got the regression by applying pressure, or got them looking for a totem, you had slowdown that required action of some kind.
Overcharge, Call Of Brine just feels lazy. Now that kicking is time-neutral, there's no downside to it. I've had games against killers with this combo who have completely denied gen regression by repeatedly slugging. A few days ago it was a Knight on RPD, and I had a game against Freddy on Ormond today who had the full Overcharge, Call of Brine, Eruption set and 3 of us bled out after 10 minutes of dancing around the final gen.
Slowdown is definitely not required to slow the pace of a game. You can instil enough slowdown by applying enough pressure.
I just 4K'd on Eyrie of Crows as Ghostface with an all-seeing build*, against a full Toolbox BNP gen rush SWF with Boil Over and Saboteur.
You have many options. You can regress gens, you can block gens, you can mindgame, you can slug, you can bait certain plays, you can simply outplay them at loops by knowing where they are with auras while they don't know what you are. Try different ways to apply pressure. They might be more fun for everyone.
*Security Camera and Drop-leg Sheath. Lethal Pursuer, Nowhere To Hide, BBQ and Floods of Rage. It was actually a very fun game, I got outplayed by a few sabo'd hooks and they tanked a few Dead Hards. But I outplayed them at the Shack and in main building, and Nowhere to Hide really showed it's value on that centre gen. Three successful marks and instadowns out of 11 hooks, the rest was simply surprised ambushes.
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Lmao. By far the best answer to this thread.
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This would work if everyone didn’t collectively agree that eruption isn’t fair against solo queue players.
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I dont face Wraiths with 4 Slowdowns, just because they can play easier with that. I also dont face Nurses who play no Slowdowns or 1 maximum. The oppressive Killers also play oppressive Builds AND do unfun playstyles.
You're making a statement as if killers decide to pick 4 slowdowns because they want to torture survivors when they can win with 1-2 gen slowdowns or none. The reason the killers pick slowdowns is that it's the only way they can consistently have a chance to win the game assuming they play well (exceptions: SWF) If they don't pick slowdowns, then some games will be straight unwinnable. Do I need 4 slowdowns every game? Probably not, but in most cases, I do more than not, especially when you climb in MMR. And I am not taking chances in satisfying the other side once in a while when I know they would most likely never do the same for me.
And I can already tell you that gens are badly designed when 1-2 of them are GUARANTEED to pop in most games after your first down. It's ridiculous that I basically have to start the game with 3 or 4 gens left.
The current Killer Meta is so boring and makes the game really stale.
I'm glad you're starting to feel how killers felt for a lot of years with DH, BT, DS being picked nearly all the time.
And I can tell you my perspective, who plays mainly killer. I pick antigen perks because I feel like I can have amazing chases and pressure multiple survivors at the same time and yet I still go to 0 to 2 gens constantly every game even if I'm playing well. It feels so disgusting to play well and still barely only having the thinnest of margins to win the game. Nothing wrong with survivors outplaying me in chases, hiding well, etc. and pumping out gens - I would gladly accept this as they are playing better and me playing worse. But in most cases, you do great as a killer and you're still sweating for your life because gens just pop one by one. And I see this constantly against even average survivors. The key exception is when I play Nurse and Blight - I feel like in those killers you can pick a non-antigen build and still have good control of the game.
The first thing a Killer does is not to go into a chase, nope, kicking the Gen with Eruption and Call of Brine to get the Slowdown going. And the Survivors try to do Gens as fast as possible to not end up in a 20 minute game which the Killer will win just because they prolonged it so much that even they can win.
This is so untrue it's funny. It's a such lame excuse, I don't know how anyone can buy it. Gens were always pumped fast, the only difference now is people actually tunnel them because the majority of killers run gen-kicking perks. And if you ended up in 20 minutes game, then you did HORRIBLY. This honestly sounds like another version of "LEGION = OP because he makes you permamend" lol. 3 gen is easily preventable, maybe should stop tunneling gens and do them slower but more tactically.
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No they don't. How are you gonna get use out of Ruin if you tunnel? How are you gonna get use out of Pain Res if you camp? And why be concerned with chill teams when we're talking about balance?
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You have many options. You can regress gens, you can block gens, you can mindgame, you can slug, you can bait certain plays, you can simply outplay them at loops by knowing where they are with auras while they don't know what you are. Try different ways to apply pressure. They might be more fun for everyone.
Tell me how to apply pressure when gens are being done in 4-5 minutes even if I play well. Let me fix your phrasing - you can tunnel, slug and camp and not run an anti-gen build. All those 3 are actually viable choices against good teams (so-so against SWF). Or you can run Nurse, Blight.
Overcharge, Call Of Brine just feels lazy. Now that kicking is time-neutral, there's no downside to it.
Such a lazy perk that requires: 1) Go to gen 2) Kick Gen 3) Patrol that gen so that no one taps it. What do you mean it's not time neutral? It literally requires the killer to spend time doing it, even sacrificing chase.
Slowdown is definitely not required to slow the pace of a game. You can instil enough slowdown by applying enough pressure.
Can I instil enough slowdown to win the game? Probably, but I'd rather not slugfest at 0 gens left or sweat my back against average players even while outplaying them for the whole game. Anti-gen perks actually make chases and hooks more meaningful and reward you for playing well.
Honestly, from reading all those replies, it seems like half of the community can't prevent 3 gen and another half can't hit the overcharge skill check. Then you guys have a fair argument - anti-gen perks are oppressive against such caliber for sure.
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How are you gonna get use out of Ruin in general 💀
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Why would you cherry pick parts of my post, and then ask leading questions that I already answered in the parts you ignored?
"Such a lazy perk that requires: 1) Go to gen 2) Kick Gen 3) Patrol that gen so that no one taps it. What do you mean it's not time neutral? It literally requires the killer to spend time doing it, even sacrificing chase."
- You don't need to patrol the gen. Survivors will blow it up due to Overcharge, and if they stick around to repair it then Eruption will guarantee around 40s of slowdown when you score a down. This is what makes it lazy. You kick it then forget about it, and the gen doesn't get done because you trigger around 40-60s worth of slowdown from a single kick.
- It's time neutral because a 2s kick down comes with an instant 2.5% regression. You should be pressuring gens anyway, spending 2s kicking a gen isn't a significant amount of time any more.
- In my example of an alternative form of slowdown, I ran a gen kicking perk, Nowhere to Hide. It served me far better than an actual slowdown perk would have, because it guaranteed a survivor didn't just jump straight back on the gen after I kicked it. I didn't lose any time in kicking gens, because that time was made up by info that gave me an edge in chase. I still managed to almost fully regress two gens, with just base regression speed, because I could directly prevent survivors from just going straight back to it.
Regression perks are just lazy. Not even just because slowdown is boring, but because there's so much more to slowdown than flat regression. Forget Overcharge, Call of Brine, Eruption and Pain Res. Block gens with Thrilling Tremors instead, and get a built in BBQ to boot. A blocked gen is far more slowdown than trying to regress them, because survivors are more efficient than any regression perk can be. That's partly why you feel the need to stack multiple anti-gen perks, they're not actually that good, so you need so much more of them.
A good killer can do as much with Thrilling Tremors and 3 chase perks, as they can with 4 slowdown perks, because the info you gain is useful in applying the right pressure at the right time.
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You don't need to patrol the gen. Survivors will blow it up due to Overcharge, and if they stick around to repair it then Eruption will guarantee around 40s of slowdown when you score a down. This is what makes it lazy. You kick it then forget about it, and the gen doesn't get done because you trigger around 40-60s worth of slowdown from a single kick.
Thanks for posting a killer dream scenario. We're literally discussing perfect conditions for the killer when not only do they miss overcharge skill check, but also don't finish gen, and also another survivor is having a bad chase. Now do a statistical study on how often that happens.
It's time neutral because a 2s kick down comes with an instant 2.5% regression. You should be pressuring gens anyway, spending 2s kicking a gen isn't a significant amount of time any more.
If a survivor taps gen, they can literally do gen faster than you can regress it. A counterplay from the survivor side is very easy, why do you choose to ignore it as well?
And pressuring gens is a time waste when you are an M1 killer who needs to go to another side of the map. There is a whole specific strategy called "3-gen" which literally relies on the killer abandoning certain gens because there is no way you can pressure all of them at the same time, so you cut your losses and start pressuring them when there are only 3 of them left. How ridiculous that one of the most viable strategies for a lot of killers is literally abandoning gens and cutting loses? That's how stupid the "just pressure the gens dood" argument is.
In my example of an alternative form of slowdown, I ran a gen kicking perk, Nowhere to Hide. It served me far better than an actual slowdown perk would have, because it guaranteed a survivor didn't just jump straight back on the gen after I kicked it. I didn't lose any time in kicking gens, because that time was made up by info that gave me an edge in chase.
Do you actually know why even the best killers pick slowdown? It's because it's one of those variables they have very little control of and ones that you barely can improve even with thousands of hours in the game as gen speeds are more dependant on survivors than killers. Aura reading perks are redundant once you get good at the game, and so are anti-chase perks. All of those can be improved over time and picking perks to help with them becomes redundant. Now tell me how to pressure multiple gens at the same time as half of the killer roster without playing scummy? Good survivors who are efficient won't allow you to get away with Ghostface in Eyrie without antigen perks. In fact, they won't even allow you to get away with it with 4 antigen perks.
A good killer can do as much with Thrilling Tremors and 3 chase perks, as they can with 4 slowdown perks, because the info you gain is useful in applying the right pressure at the right time.
A good killer can do a lot with thrilling tremors. A great killer can do the same without running Thrilling Tremors in the first place - same as with BBQ. Knowing which gens are being done comes with experience and a great killer doesn't need such perks to identify which gens can potentially pop.
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I can make my own arguments, thank you. It's just sometimes easier to show and not tell, work smarter not harder, something most people on here don't know how to do.
What's your argument anyway?
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Everyone doesn't agree. Me and a couple others disagree and haven't really been proven wrong. And also the spontaneous complainers that will come out of the woodwork only after the Eruption nerf has happened.
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I say nerf anti gen builds and fix camping/tunneling. Game would be a lot better.
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most of the people i see running 4 slowdowns are tunnelling/camping nurses and blights
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According to most people: "Just pressure the gens" or if they go for the hex: "Just defend the hex." If these people played killer full-time they'd go in so idealistic and come out so disappointed, because they speak, not in parables, but in killer's pipe dreams.
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I would add that i think slow killers should really have some kind of passive anti gen to make it up for the slower "catch up walking speed".
Or they might feel forced to play as you describe.
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the only time 4 regression perks are an issue is on killers like nurse and blight, incredibly strong chase killers with little counterplay. Sure, some regression perks can be countered by getting off the gen, but some (pop,overcharge,cob) cant. the killer will roll up, kick the gen, and then chase/down you faster than you can tap the gen again. running 4 regression on ghostface, myers, trickster etc is a non issue but still gets hella complaints
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