I Would, Ya Know, Like To Play The Game.
A lot of my games recently have been killers that spawn in, immediately identify a 3-gen, and just spend the entire match at the 3-gen. This isnt even a matter of "watch what generators you do" because the killers themselves are intentionally ignoring survivors outside of the 3-gen so we are forced to go there to complete the generators.
Serious question, how is this fun. 20-30 minute matches of going back and forth to achieve literally no progress. Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Eruption as per usual to make generator impossible to complete, especially in SoloQ.
And this being said, I dont have an issue with the players, people will do what is naturally best, but the fact that this has been happening A LOT lately and has been a serious talking point within the game on social media kind of highlights how it is too effective. Why is BHVR enabling this type of gameplay?
This is quite literally the closest Ive been to quitting the game altogether, but Im nearly done with the Rift Pass. Idk. I just dont enjoy dealing with this over and over, and want to express my frustrations with this.
Comments
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yeah it's really bad, I do not blame the killers who want to win, but the way old meta was destroyed so an even worse meta can take its place is actually hilarious and shows they just do not know what do to with this game at this point
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I can't remember the last time I went up against a friendly killer or one that wasn't thirsty.
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I literally saw this type of play in the past maybe a handful of times, but it's been non-stop this week. They don't leave their little area at all.
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You know, I mained hag when I first started playing and realistically if you want to win you set up a web around a 3-4 gen. But when other killers can play like this you know it's a problem. It's probably why I never get hate in my games even though I play blight I literally have not kicked a gen coming up on a year now.
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easily the most boring killer meta to play against
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As killer my least favourite maps are the 3 gen ones as I personally find it the most boring strategy. However so often the survivors just mindlessly rush gens and 3 gen themselves anyway and I end up forced to play this strategy.
I think most of us saw Hens' video highlighting how absurd the 3 gen hold strategy can be and if it continues clearly they need to address it. I hope we can find a better way forward other than totally boring gen control builds for killers as it sucks to play against for survivor and I want to be able to use fun builds as killer and gen perks are boring asf
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I don't know what you want the killer to do. Just let the gens go? 3-gens don't even in happen in the way y'all describe it most of the time. "They just never leave that area ever." Then they're not getting downs, or the survivor is foolishly going down there when they know it's gonna be their 3-gen. And if the killer has 4 survivors still alive, what good is a 3-gen?
Killers are just desperate at this point for ways to win, man.
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Then how are they getting downs?
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Not every Survivor is perfect.
Not every map spawns 30 pallets.
Not every Survivor team is sweating.
Not every Killer is bad.
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Add on extra points if it’s on asarov’s or suffocation pit where doing a 3 gen is beyond easy and camping 1 side of the map with a hooked survivor basically guarantees a win
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You just really don't want to give the killer the benefit of the doubt, do you? That's literally what these forums are.
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Killers, stop tunneling.
Also also, don't camp.
Also also also, don't run Eruption.
Also also also also, don't slug.
Also also also also also, don't strat a 3-gen.
I would ask if they want me to just stand there and do nothing but they don't like that either.
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They spawned right at a 4-gen and never left it the entire match, even with other survivors progressing the object, and even healing in front of them but distanced away from the 4-gen, they stayed at the 4-gen the entire time. Right now I am being camped on hook because all generators are visible from where she is standing.
I noticed this 4-gen at the start, I tried to break it, got hooked, I got unhooked and ran away but they persisted at staying where the 4-gen was and only ever hit survivors if they were working on generators. Sloppy Butcher + Eruption + Call of Brine brought the game to a crippling halt where we couldnt progress the objective due to Eruption, and we couldnt heal because of Sloppy Butcher and rapidly regressing generators.
We were gen-locked. This match lasted 20+ minutes. Killer got a 4K.
Matches like these are pretty common now, and again, Ive seen lots of discussion on social media about this. It is an issue with the game that has to be resolved.
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Where did I mention camping and tunneling in this post?
This entire post is about people making matches last 20-30 minutes and refusing to participate in normal gameplay and instead playing Generator Kicking Simulator 2022.
5 minute matches were awful for killer. 20+ minute matches are awful for SoloQ. It's not hard to understand.
I even said I understand WHY killers play like this, they can do what they want, since it's just a game, it's just up to BHVR to remove this because it is a horrible experience. Blame the game, blame the devs, not the players.
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"Normal gameplay" is Survivor code for "Play the way I want you to".
Which most of the time is wanting Killers to run at them to give them a chase and run every tile the hardest way possible. And if you happen to down them you MUST pick them up, and if you happen to pick them up you MUST hook them and then GO AWAY.
This is "just play normally".
You NEVER see a Killer scream for people to "just play normally". It's unironically Survivor propaganda.
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"Normal gameplay" means ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THE DAMN RULES OF THE GAME. This isnt even "survivor propaganda" or whatever the BS you want to spout to cope with it, if something is breaking the rules, and it's very much bannable, then it's not "normal gameplay", there is no excuse.
Again, 3-gen strats are fine on their own. But if you refuse to chase survivors and only protect the generators, and bring slowdown that physically makes it impossible to progress the objective, you are breaking the game rules, and actively taking the game hostage. I believe Mandy also confirmed this a month or two ago, however considering how many comments Mandy has made since Im not going to bother to find it.
And again, it is bannable btw. I would (at sign) Mandy to confirm this but I dont want to bother them atm considering it's 3 CST AM and BHVR is based in Canada.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on19 -
They are not, that's why those types of games last 30+ minutes
If they would get downs the game would atleast end without having to give up
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If a survivor gets caught off guard while doing a generator, they will often just down them and slug them to go and protect the generators.
They only hook if the generators are not at risk, but if they catch the scent of a single survivor within 16 meters of a generator they must protect the generator instead of hooking. All jokes aside, the current meta really enables this playstyle, you have generator information constantly from Call of Brine, and Eruption is the cherry on the cake for stopping the generators from completing.
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That's not the benefit of the doubt that's the average game.
Most Killers, when paired with Survivors of equal or lesser skill, do not struggle for downs.
Most Survivors are NOT good.
Maps do not spawn enough pallets to support them dropping them instantly.
Most teams aren't capable of gen rushing to make their teammates who aren't able to loop not a HUGE liability.
Not every Killer gets run for 5 gens. I'd bet most chases at average MMR are 30 seconds or less.
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Ruin was nerfed due to survivor frustration. I didn't think so even during the red skill check. It could have been disabled just by breaking the bones.
And now Eruption is in vogue as an alternative. I do not like to play against it. I can understand the frustration this time.
I think it should be tweaked. But do you want a big big nerf?
I am worried about which PERK nerf call will happen next after nerfing it. No, everyone knows it will happen.
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I hate this meta of 4 slowdown + 3 gen camping. It's so unfun for both sides.
Instead I run at max 2 slowdown perks (never Eruption though because I hate kicking gens :p) and try to make the game fun for the survivors by playing as fair as I can (within reason).
I still win most games, but the ones were you lose make you feel like absolute #########, so I can understand why most people run full meta when chances are your opponent is already running full meta and doesn't care about your fun either.
Hopefully BHVR finally learns that the most unfun/toxic playstyles shouldn't be the strongest. But I doubt it.
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Hex: Ruin was originally reworked because of frustration. Then it was nerfed because it got used too much, the meta shake-up had nothing to do with people not liking the perks, they were all based on usage rates.
If you go through the comments on my page, I have suggested many ideas to rework the current meta perks that make them better against SWF but not as strong against SoloQ. Some of the changes might even reduce hostage situations as mentioned in my original post.
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You need to still hook survivors, your objective is to hook and kill them. Not protect the generators and make the matches last forever. This being said, Ive had matches were Killers hold the game hostage until all survivors die to the match timer. There are videos of people doing it on YouTube, and I even have VODs from Twitch of streamers I faced intentionally doing it.
"Oh, but by making the match last that long, all survivors technically die, therefore you are still playing to win" shut up, like actually, shut up. There is a clear line between someone playing the game and taking it hostage. Matches should never last more than 20+ minutes. Again as I stated before, Im sure you can maybe find the reply Mandy made to someone, Im too damn lazy to find it, but it is bannable.
This same logic of "it doesnt matter how long it takes, it can take hours, but as long as the survivors die it's perfectly fine" is the same logic that survivors do when taking the game hostage. "Survivor's objectives are to escape, well if I hide, surely I will eventually escape if the other survivor is found" type stuff. Just because you THINK it is right DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.
You literally cant sit here and say "killers are doing their objective" but "survivor are taking the game hostage" with the other. Both are objectively wrong and bannable. Both are taking the game hostage. Both are against the rules, end of story.
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Personally I haven't encountered a 3-gen strat game that lasted 30 minutes. I have faced 3-gen Killers but usually my teammates give up after 10 minutes and feed themselves to the Killer. When playing solo this is not worth the time trying to coordinate with randoms with no comms.
I saw a video by Hens yesterday and how he patrolled a 3 gen in Glenvale with the Knight. It is actually impossible for the survivors (a competent 3 man SWF) to finnish the last gen. That is not good and I hope the devs are looking into this. Eruption being the centre and biggest problem of the build in my opinion. The video was to showcase the playstyle but sadly some people choose to play like this and exploit it giving them easy wins most of the time. The 3 gen strat works in most maps if the Killer can recognize it from the start.
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The first Ruin-Rework was done due to multiple aspects. Free pressure at the start of the game, Ruin being inconsistent (you can get multiple Skillchecks or none at all), Ruin being very effective vs. inexperienced Survivors but not really effective against experienced Survivors, present in every Build.
And the Rework itself did not really make Ruin a bad Perk, in fact, it was more annoying to go against IMO. And still a very strong Perk. It only really became oppressive with old Undying, because cleansing Ruin up to 5 times was simply too much.
But after Undying got nerfed, you never really saw complaints about Ruin itself. The only thing which was complained about was Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer, but this could have been solved with the Tinkerer-Nerf they eventually did.
However, the most recent Nerf to Ruin was not due to its strength, it was to remove it from the Meta. This happened to some Perks so that they can they they "changed" the Meta - make Perks unuseable so people run other Perks (e.g. Ruin, PGTW, Self Care, Iron Will).
Like, Ruin did not even need that Nerf and if it should get a Nerf, just disabling it when a Survivor is dead would have been enough. This rarely happens anyway that a Survivor dies before Ruin was cleansed and even if it happens, the Killer is most likely in a very, very good spot at this point. But the regression-Nerf just was to kill the Perk.
And the current Slowdown-Meta is at least on the same Level as OLD Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer, so with multiple Ruin-cleanses and Tinkerer progging all the time. However, unlike nowadays, you were able to counter it by cleansing Ruin (even if it took some time) AND not every Killer was really able to use this combo as effective.
However, the current Meta on top of 3-Genning right from the start can be used by basically any Killer. Just dont chase someone, just protect your 3 Gens. And this is very unhealthy and probably the most boring Meta it has ever been. And IMO just protecting a 3 Gen without any intention to actually do the Objective should be a bannable offense. It is just taking the game hostage, nothing else.
But better idea would be if BHVR would realize that the current Gen-Kicking Meta is not healthy for the game and does changes. Sadly, I think yesterday was the last Patch for a while, since it is Christmas soon so we will probably stick with this Meta for a few months.
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Again, I dont blame the players.
Blame the developers and the game for enabling stuff like this, BHVR has not been acting upon community feedback regarding the perks and has let stuff like this stay in the game until it becomes beyond problematic.
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Some claims are not directed towards you specifically but moreso the community as a whole, albeit I worded it poorly, I will admit that. "You" is a very broad term but in the context in is written in, I can see how it would seem directed towards a specific person.
I mean, if you want to see what I mean in regards to some of the stuff I said, just go through the replies in this or any other killer meta thread and youll see people constantly defending the perks like they have a bomb strapped to their chest or something. There are also many people defending people taking the game hostage as well, because the rules never apply to whatever side they play apparently.
Honestly, this is the closest the community has come to a civil war. Ive never seen the community more divided over a perk than now, not even with old DH.
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''killers are just desperate at this point for ways to win''
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I'm gonna be honest I started doing the same.
I played some Oni games and I was figuring out how to play him in a way I can manage to kill a good team. So I started to wandering around, trying to find someone and get the first hit since this is so important.
Everytime I found someone they just played everything super safe so that I wa slike: ok, spot the 3-gen and play it defensive. Sometimes I found someone and I start to zone this guy into my 3gen and then just bloodlust the first hit. This is where I started to feel like having a chance to beat a team.
Most of the times I played Oni I felt like I can't get a grip on this team. I felt like I have to play how they wanted me to play but when I played the 3-gen I was setting the rules and they had to leave their throne and be eye-on-eye with me. I hope I made clear how I feel most of my games.
The reason I stopped doing it (that hard) is because it's not really fair and I don't feel like that I am winning by playing well and instead winning by perks and game mechanics that are temporarely meta. Just kick the gens and activate Eruption. Wait out the first hit to fill your power. Down someone with your power and trigger Eruption. Hook someone on a Pain Resonance hook and then go around and trigger DMS. It's just not really fair and the only way to win this even as an solid 4-man-coms-swf is to play it absolutely perfectly from the very first moment you start the match. Sry but that's just bs. And even then it's not fun.
I remember me playing survivor (always solo) and every time a Doctor started to play 3-gen-Doc (back in the days) I couldn't stand playing this ######### for over an hour and getting held hostage. Since those times I'm already getting pretty fast mad when Killer start doing things like that.
So yea I hope they nerf this a bit. I think they just have to change a) the way Eruption works. It has to be core-game-friendly (aka solo q friendly). And Overcharge and CoB shouldn't stack. O yea and they need to fix Eruption regressing a blocked gen. A blocked gen is blocked..
I don't think you have to nerf the numbers itself. You just have to fix how those perks are working and stacking with each other.
Post edited by Rizzo on4 -
Nobody even asked that. Op even said "I dont have an issue with the players"
It's a game design issue.
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This gets brought up a lot.
It's pretty clear that the answer is focused around the continuous application of Madness 3 and does not apply to all 3 gen scenarios/stall tactics.
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Friendly killers usually get insulted. So that might be the reason.
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If the 3-gen is easy to patrol it doesn't matter they're not getting kills. It'll come to a point where the game will not progress unless the survivors throw themselves at the killer's weapon. This is especially true if the killer has many regression perks, as it takes longer for survivors to recover than it takes for the killer to reset a gen.
Not saying I blame killer players. I understand this is the easiest way to reach their win condition. What I'm saying is, this is a massive design flaw that should have been patched out years ago.
No one enjoys 3-gen strats. Neither the killer camping the gens, nor the survivors trying to repair them.
If the survivors trying to repair the gens just decided to chill in the basement because it's literally impossible for them to repair them, who would be to blame? The survivors for not trying to engage in normal gameplay? The killer literally trying not to throw their own victory away by randomly patrolling the other, empty side of the map?
No one. It's often not made out of malice, it's people not wanting to throw the game. But it's still a design flaw. It's the game's fault.
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Back in the day, when I was more positive about the direction DbD was heading, I played a lot of friendly killer. I welcomed hundreds of newbs to the game and tried my best to give them a fun match that they'd escape. A respite between the try hard nasty killers. I didn't play to farm until I had my 8 hooks though because farming is boring. I have more games where I ended up with 29,600 bloodpoints on the tally screen than with any other score.
I was hungry for bloodpoints and not kills. I didn't "usually get insulted." Usually it was a neutral experience, sometimes it was a positive experience with a positive endgame chat and rarely I got insulted.
My attitude, and I assume the attitude of many others, towards DbD has changed. Now there is always some challenge to be done. The way rank is earned has changed. Most of the time there is no endgame chat because console players don't get that luxury. With the 6.1.0 nerf to BBQ and Chili there isn't even any reason to try to have a hook on all 4 survivors before people start dying.
As with everything, especially in DbD, there are multiple contributing factors as to why things happen.
Now I only play friendly killer during anniversary events.
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I went today agains't one or so I though but then he had noed and bloodwarden at the end so he was just faking it.
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I literally said it entirely is about players who camp a 3-gen at the start of the match and never leave the area. The entire post, in fact, is about that. It was literally the first 2 paragraphs of the post.
Survivors can 3-gen themselves, but I think people often forget that the killer has the power to force a 3-gen since the beginning. I mean, it's literally how most trap killers win anyways, because they otherwise cannot protect a wide generator spread (neither can most other killers).
Ive stated it before, I dont blame the players for being this way. I think the game design does not support killers enough to deal with a more health playstyle atm. I also think people are always going to lean towards what is best naturally, people are not going to intentionally handicap themselves to be "fair", it would be silly to assume so.
It would be neat to have increased movement speed after hooking a survivor that goes away once you enter a chase, it would cause people to not do stuff as much. But also perks should always reward killers for doing their objective. Old Pop Goes and Pain Res were good for this since you had to hook survivors to get them; the current meta just rewards players without need to progress the game, which enables holding the game hostage among other things.
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Killers in general get insulted over anything. If no matter what you do is going to end up with someone insulting you, might as well play to win.
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I mean, I think everyone gets insulted, not that long ago I got post-game harassment from a killer for solving the box (it was Pinhead) and ending their Chain Hunt, which ended up getting a 3-man out as a result. The killer spent the entire time nodding "no" at me on hook and even when I was dead on hook they kept doing it.
I just think since you see 4 survivors and 1 killer, since there are generally more survivors, you see more survivors harassing the killer, but the % of people harassing the other side is the same. Same %, just one has a higher population.
Idk if this makes sense. I hope it does.
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Nowhere in that screenshot does the phrase "play normally" show up. You tried to cite what I said, then moved the goalposts.
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I never said that you said me in particular, Im just saying the original point in the post is about camping a 3-gen from the start. Im really not sure why people would divulge it into 3-gens in general since if the survivors 3-gen themselves it is there fault most of the time.
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How am I moving the goalpost? Please explain and elaborate for the class.
Since I clearly stated what "play normally" meant after you jumped to conclusions about what I meant. And I used the screenshot to explain what is and isnt against the rules.
You assumed "play normally" meant "you cant camp, tunnel, or slug" when I never mentioned that, this entire post has been about taking the game hostage. So I said that "playing normally means not taking the game hostage and following the rules", because that is literally what I meant to begin with.
No goalposts were moved, I just corrected your wrong assumption of what I meant.
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Survivors can 3-gen themselves, but I think people often forget that the killer has the power to force a 3-gen since the beginning. I mean, it's literally how most trap killers win anyways, because they otherwise cannot protect a wide generator spread (neither can most other killers).
You answered your own question in opening post. "Serious question, how is this fun."
Its not fun playing weak killers that have weak chase potential to be easily outplayed by survivors. Seriously, Take the new killer, the Knight. Why would a killer player roam around the map looking for chases with such a s** chase power? Most of killer powers are just plagued with drawbacks and survivor-fun mechanics. Your expecting trapper to fly around the map chasing people with no ability and hoping that he magically 3-4k's. You have to make killer power entertaining for killer player to use in order for killer player to entertain you in the chase. So far, they have only made killer entertaining for the survivor to go against but forgot the killer player playing the killer. inadequate chasing power to pressure the map results in 3 gen gameplay.
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Nah, i can count the insults from killers on my profile on 1 hand. The other 62 pages of "love messages" are from survivors. Even when taking the 4 to 1 ration into account it still doesn´t match.
Some people are simply salty. Doesn´t matter if they win or lose. They still seem to have an urge to leave a message.
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People should just play how they want. Leaving a toxic message after the match is just... immature. It won´t change the way the addressed player plays. It won´t have an impact on your next match.
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It's a problem on both fronts. So long as BHVR keeps investing in survivor perks that serve no other purpose but to finish gens as quickly as possible (especially when combined with a toolbox), then killers will continue to bring the most effective regression perks while camping a 3 gen.
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Point of the post is that some killers are refusing to down survivors in 3/4 gen scenarios to prolong the game for as long as possible. Truthfully, I don’t get how so much people are missing the point.
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I hate when killers do this, why do you wanna drag the game out forever??? There’s literally no fun in that.
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It seems like the only killer play style that isn’t complained about is chasing survivors all match, never defending gens, running as far away as possible from a hooked survivor, letting all unhooked survivor heal in peace and quiet, not chasing or hooking that survivor again until all other survivors have been hooked, then making sure to go to the exit gate at the end of the match and quietly watch while all the survivors t-bag you for 3 minutes until the EGC timer runs out
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Yes that’s all survivors want to do! They hate killers!
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Then why do survivors want to be out of the game as quickly as possible?
It's simple, both killers and survivors really only have one task to do. One is to finish the generators and escape, the other is to kill survivors and prevent them from escaping. In order to do their one task as efficiently as possible, each side will bring the most efficient way to do it.
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