Gen speed sugestion

I think the game needs a slightly different approach.

I think part of the problem with playing Killer is that you're always on the clock. You're always under pressure. This didn't change with the killer buffs, it just duplicated the issue onto the survivor side.

It might be better to address this in gameplay, rather than numerically. My suggestion: Once the first and third gens are completed, all gens lock up, they cannot be repaired or regressed. Glyphs spawn on the map. The survivors need to clear three glyphs total, the killer one.

If the killer clears their glyph, the lock is extended. If the survivors clear their glyphs, the lock is dropped immediately, and hook timers are temporarily slowed.

This adds a bit of variety and gives the killer the opportunity to get some breathing room.

For me... it's the fact that Survivors that are good can hit the great skillchecks

So removing them at the start will make the start of the match easier (for Killers)

No but limiting them... Like half a Gen needs to be done for Great skillchecks to appear

Then your suggestion wouldn't work for the same reasons...

But let's discuss this

You said that Toolboxes, BNP, and Prove Thyself will not make my suggestion not work... so what if it was not activated by Toolboxes

Prove Thyself doesn't remove the penalty for having multiple Survivors on a Gen

Toolboxes have a specific number of charges

BNP's are used as soon as a Survivor uses their Toolboxes on a Gen

Then so would my suggestion...

By removing the Great skillchecks at the start it will force the Survivors to be on Gens instead of around the Killer

It will also divide the Gen jockeys from the Loopers

While 3 gening is bad to play against that is mostly fault of the survivors not breaking the 3 gen early enough into the game.

Gen rushing is a thing, but despite what people think it is just a symptom, not the disease. The real problem is there isn't anything you can really do to stop someone to just keep fixing and fixing the same gen without losing a lot of time: Kick it, survivor get away. Chase him, the moment you aren't looking other survivor will come and at minimum stop the regression. Camp it, and then you are letting the others to just do whatever they want while you are trying to hunt one guy. Are you a survivor alone in one gen? Loop the killer and just tap the broken gen before you keep running, forcing the killer to stop to kick it again or keep losing time with you.

So even if I don't think it is a bad idea (any survivor nerf is welcome) this won't really stop "gen rushing", it would more than probably just make it more painfully slow and not punish survivors for letting the killer have the most close up, easy to patrol gens.

But that's only another symptom of the same desease: Why I would try to go chase someone, even less with just 1 gen to go, when that is giving them the chance to start a gen with me not being able to stop them to be repaired even for a second? Even if two survivors are left, the moment I chase one the other would repair, I stop the chase, patrol gens, see one is being repaired, kick it, and again, the lose / lose situation: Go search for the one I was chasing and give the one that is probably hiding close to the gen to keep repairing, or stay, search around the gen, find and chase the one hiding, pray he doesn't tap the gen in his run away, and while all this is happening give the other survivor the chance to start repairing other gen or come to the one I was and continue repairing, either way is back to the same situation as before... hell no, if I get to have 3 close up gen I will keep patroling them even if I see a survivor in the distance, and if they make a mistake and I'm able to hook them great, if not, 1 hour game and I didn't win, but I didn't lose either.

It's shifting the pressure back to the survivors and is the smart thing to do and because how the game works right now, it's the only safe choice to make for the killer here. Even if I wanted to go after someone in that situation, doing it would only give them a chance to win. This is also the reason perks like CoB is so much used, because it give me the option to not having to care about the gens for a while at least.

That's why your suggestion, at least for itself, won't work: You would only make them do all the tactics and game mechanics abuse that makes killers believe they are being "gen rush" longer, not punish survivors for not being smart and repair close up gens first, and making even more a necessity for the killer to just guard the last 3 gens as now they would do them a lot faster so I can't take an eye out of them in any moment as every second I let them repair would punish me more and more.

Thanks for the videos, it's always good to learn for more experienced people... but it doesn't change my point 🤣

Players need to realize that you can't stop most Gens from being done

Survivors should be able to get 1-3 Gens done (in general)... but the game doesn't reward nor penalize how many Gens get done

MMR only works by getting kills or escaping... nothing else matters

The Emblem system (which is by far the fairest... hindsight being 20/20) is bugged to (word I can't type) and won't see any fixes (as far as I can see) from Killers not getting scored properly to Survivors whom can't pip in certain situations

Now put those two together and it's (word I can't type)...

Is Gen speed the issue or is it a symptom of something else

"However a survivor mistake can throw the whole match a killer mistake isn't as punishing and most of the time you can recover." False. Every hit not done, every DH not baited, every loop failed, pallet hit or survivor missed is time that gen you just kicked is being repaired to completion, and a game where 2-3 gens are done without having fully hooked at least a survivor is almost a lost game unless they f up in some way (and right now survivors are doing that amount after having kicked 2 gens, hurting 2 of them and hooked one for the first time without even bloodlust activating). And you saying this and that you can win "99.9%" of games with any killer, I don't care how much "op" you think some killer or addons are makes me think you don't play as killer as much as you say you do.

And I'm talking about core game mechanics, but you don't stop bringing perks and addons to the mix, which of course, if game mechanics are changed would need to be rebalanced, but again, without taking in count perks, tools, map generation or anything else, some base game mechanics need a change because yes, survivor abuse them and is provoking a lot of things that people complain about. It is a fact.

But hey, if you want to talk about perks and all the things on top of the abusable game mechanics fine, let's talk about them: Killers being against the clock "has always been like that", the thing is people don't play the game now as they played it then, and survivors didn't have the plethora of speed boost, second chances, self healing and anti-tunneling protection they have now. Things that even if a killer play in the most perfect way possible, can throw away it's accomplishments with the push of a button. On top of that and even more importantly, something that survivors seems to forget, it's that they have the biggest advantage there is as "base kits": Numbers. Numbers, coordination and even communication. Let's break them down like a gen:

· Numbers: Self explanatory. 4 people * 4 perks per person + 4 tools = 32 things that can get in the way of the killer and nullify his efforts. Even without the other two, being 4 is the main advantage of survivors (and how the game is designed right now, even more) as even if they are not organized or even good players they can do a lot together. Hell, even the noobiest noob with a flashlight or Prove Thyself can do a lot for their team. Add skilled players with good perk builds to the equation and doesn't matters who the killer decide to chase, they would make that chase a nightmare, hopping from pallet to pallet, window to window, to the end of times while his other 3 partners are doing whatever they feel like. And when there is only one of those, well, just go for the weak, but when there is 4 people like that, with flashlights to blind you or sabotage the hook you where going to, makes every chase a gamble against all odds and waist of time even when you succeed, even more if you have to drop that chase.

· Coordination: Again, self explanatory. And no, I'm not talking just about SWF squad with Discord, that's the next part. Even 4 SoloQ players that know what they are doing can coordinate to f the killer. Some examples: If I am with another survivor in a gen, the killer comes and start chasing the other guy, I will just hide beside the generator and continue fixing it had the killer kicked it or not and putting him in a lose / lose situation whatever he do. If I see a survivor being downed I will stay close and if there is a hook close, I will sabotage it, or if I'm not injured I will try to block the killer so him can escape. And no, I'm not complaining of survivors helping each other and cooperating, that's the main fun of the game... but I think you would agree that this is still an advantage survivors have.

· Communication: This is the big one. This is the one and main advantage that every survivor main I have seen in this forums ignore at the scream of "Won't somebody pLeAsE think of the SoloQ players?". It's so much an advantage that I think any killer can notice when even a two SFW with voicetalk are in the game. SWF using meta communications allow survivors to not only make use of the other advantages to perfection using perk builds, tools and roles to transform their squad in an "killer time losing Swiss knife" prepared to deal with anything the killer can throw at them, they can do the most unfair thing for the killer and most advantageous thing for survivors... TALK. They can literally pinpoint the killer position to their friends, warn them when him is going their direction, told them where the gens are, when the killer is or isn't chasing them, when to cross paths so one of the others takes a hit for them, when and where to be prepared to drop a pallet or flashlight the killer to prevent a grabbing... etc, etc, and etc.

So, unless you are a person with the survivor mentality of "killer being able to attack is so op, nerf m1", any other guy would say that survivors start with some great base advantages over the "Not-so-unstoppable killer", even when comparing the utilities both have at his disposal. Because yes, killers has some really good and strong perks (let's take aside the fact that many of this perks have being nerfed or reworked so they are easily avoidable and survivors can effectively make a perk slot of the killer totally useless), but for strong they are, they are still just 4 perks. Doesn't matters what advantage they give the killer, the amount of advantages survivors perks gives them on top of the base advantages they have by design are abysmal. Oh, but we are not done yet! Now is time to awnser your question...

"what the game allow survivors do and abuse? Abuse what..."

Well, just to name a few of the things, from less advantageous to god tier:

· Locker spamming: You are chasing a survivor, the survivor get to a locker in front of your face and start spamming space trying to stun you if you are fool enough to get close and avoid getting hit in the process. Easy avoidable, more a nuance than anything, but makes you waste a couple of your precious seconds to stop it, even more if you hit them just when getting in again, what locks the survivor in the animation and takes a couple of seconds more for them to get out in dying state.

· Body blocking: Getting in the way of the killer to make him run out the time for hook someone, putting the killer in the situation to have to hit him, being even more slowed down and losing more time, or walk in zigzag to avoid them at the same time you suffer the grabbed survivor struggle (combine this with Boil Over for the most fun experience). This usually don't work, but some times do, and even if it doesn't is annoying like hell.

· Map positions with no hooks: Sometimes, map generation don't put hooks close to some part of the maps. This is still a thing just as infinite loops whatever anybody says. It happens less, but it still happens. Survivors, when knowing they are going down, will just go to this places knowing that if you try to hook them you won't have enough time to do so. Even better, get to a high place while having Boil Over and it would be impossible for you to hook them, bad map generation or not. This have a simple solution, but then they would cry "slugging" when the game is over...

· Generator tapping: This is what is making play as a killer feel bad, because is what survivors are abusing like hell every single game right now (at least the ones I play) and is the core to a lot of things all people complains as it only generates lose / lose situations for the killer forcing him to tunnel, to 3gen camp or equip NOED so he can try to do something at the end game and makes him feel being "gen rushed" as I already said. The main case of this abuse is up to 2 or 3 survivors will gangbang a generator no matters what, and if the killer comes the moment he he turns around one would at minimum tap it and revert the break down before keep running, if the killer even bothers to kick it in a situation like that. But that is just one! Survivors would tap stop the break down mid-chase, would hide close to the gen and not one second after the killer isn't looking tap it and hide again, hell, they will even get a hit if they aren't injured to tap it and even finish it mid chase if they know there is little progress left to go, because they know that whatever the killer do, in that situation, he loses.

So yeah, there is some abuse of game mechanics survivors do in a per game basis. Hell, even me have done the gen tapping thing as a survivors in almost every game I have the chance and I just play survivor for farming BP and getting challenges / dailys done.

And just for fun... "Killers are the ones who can abuse since most game breaking bugs happens for the killers" lol I don't know what bugs killers had, but I can told you two that survivors have right now and was done to me: One guy hopped on top of the ladder's railing in Backwater swamp, making me impossible to grab him. He will just stay there waiting for his friend to come and heal him... to bad for him I dropped the game and dedicated my time to make sure he just died by slowly and painful bleeding. And the other (even tho I don't know if it was a bug or hacks) survivors can open the lockers's doors without even stoping or hopping it mid chase, making them open, make the noise, but keep running, which is distracting and annoying as hell, apart of allowing them to confuse the killer and make him wast time because he is sure the survivor went to a locker.

So, taking all this in count we can conclude that: all this game mechanics abuse + base advantages survivors have specially the ability to voicetalk and coordinate + perks that a good player would use with godly precision making killer lose time even for baiting it + not avoidable perks like speedboost + base speed boost and slow down for killer on hit + tools savings = playing this game as killer against 4 skilled survivors full tryhard perk build (even worst if SWF with voicechat) is like playing basketball 1 vs 4 while you are wearing an ankle weight, you can only score alley hoops to yourself, there are 8 balls in game and if someone wears some kind of shoes can take the ball out of your hands without you being able to resist, and if you somehow beat all the odds and win, someone would be mad because "You holded the ball for 30 seconds straight!"... is bs, is frustrating and many times feels like the game is designed for killers to make survivors feel good, something that many survivors seems to really believe.

Now, what I'm saying is "Hey, I'm fine with all the other stuff, but can we at least change some of the outdated basic and abusable rules, like allowing me to take out of the game a couple of balls for a short time so you can't rapid fire me before I can even do a proper alley hoop and I don't have to resort to tactics nobody likes for winning?" and all I hear is "survivors are defenseless, playing killer is easy, git good".

So again, is not about perks, is not about bugs, is not even about skill, it's about removing one of the game mechanics that survivors abuse so the game can be better for everybody, including survivors, as right now is the main disease that is provoking much of the symptoms people complain about. And if you don't understand it by now, well, I have nothing more to say, so have a nice day and we'll met in the fog.

First, I don't know who otz is. Second, I was responding to @Gandor, who in another post literally said that in a 3gen situation killer should simply let survivors win, and then proceeded to come here and call me entitled and blind while proving one time after another that is he who has a clearly survivor main "killer op" mentality.

Also, from my comment you are responding to:

So I don't know exactly what is the problem here.

Tell me exactly when and where I had said that in all the comments we have exchanged until now. Please, do. Because in any case, what I said is "Killers are not OP, and survivors aren't as defenseless as many survivors main says", and unlike you, I did so with facts of all the base advantages survivors have against the killer, not just "In one game Bubba with his OP perks and OP addons sneezed with almost no effort and killed 3 survivors doing perfectly as they always do because survivors are all pros, so all killers are OP by design".

Oh, and who have said killers are winning 60% of games, if you don't mind? Again, killrate ≠ winrate. 60% of survivors killed is not 60% of won games. A game won for a killer is 4 survivors, 61% of killrate means in 100 games (400 survivors), 244 survivors are killed in average. 50 games are 200 survivors, so lets be generous and say that on average killers won 50% of their games, and in the others kills from 0 to 3 survivors to reach that 44 left, which means he lost those games. See now why killrate and winrate are not the same and what you are saying around that average percentage is wrong? Even more taking in count it is an average of all killers rate, as most killers have a killrate lower than that.

You mean that place that rarely come handy to use because normally you would be getting survivors downed too far from it? Yeah, I have seen it, even use it from time to time if the situation allows me. What is your point?

Saying that while conveniently forgetting to address the last part of my post you copied there ("Because that was my point, that killer mistakes also punish him and punish him hard, not that mistake survivors do can't throw a game.") is just marvelous, I love it 🤣

Again, explain me how a game can end like that, more so when exit gates are opened, if it isn't because the snowball of mistakes and failures that start with "Hero mode x 3". That is not making a single mistake and throwing the game, that is almost giving the killer the game on purpose because you have the need to be 4 crossing the exit gates and not only you have failed to save 1 survivor, you gave the killer the opportunity to kill another 3.

Oh, here we go again! Again talking perks when the argument is about base game mechanics. But fine, have it your way:

• Getting hit just after being unhooked is unlikely unless someone unhook you with the killer 5 meters away of the hook, and even then normally the game would register the hit for the unhooker unless you are aligned perfectly and wait for the right moment (and there isn't someone body blocking, of course). And if by any reason that supposedly and specific situation you describe is not what happens most of the time, it grants Endurance with other bonuses for 80 seconds after being unhooked. Totally useless perk, no doubt.
• DS was nerfed at the same time they added a free 7% speed boost and Endurance for 5 seconds just from being unhooked and I see a lot of survivor not only using it, but even baiting the killer with it (is one of the reasons I never follow a survivor eager to be chased / downed). Also, you are yet again trying to use something that just specific killers have to make a point in an argument of something that affects all the games and not just those killers. In fact, for Blight and Nurse that would be 8.63% of all games in all MMRs. So, even with the supposition that 100% of survivors would have DS in that 8.63% of games against that killers, you are basically complaining about how DS is less effective in those games while it still remain strong in the other 91.37%.

So, now killing survivors out of the game is abusing the game design? Sorry, but you said it like if tunneling was the killer snapping his fingers and suddenly 1 or 2 survivors become dust, Thanos style. Even when tunneling the killer can lose a lot of time allowing the other 3 do what they need. The time the killer is tunneling, is time free of killer for the other 3, so it is still a 4v1 game.

Explain to me rationally how anything of what I said would make the game regress to how it was before (a time when it was so much worst for killers as you yourself have said, so you should be agreeing with me then) and I will never post in this forum again. It doesn't have anything to do not just with what I said, but what you said here either. How is this related to the fact that your answer to fixing mechanics that survivors abuse in the game today was "before was worst", and what has queue times to do with it?

Are you serious? I can't not believe you don't understand that what I was saying is "If you were right and killers abilities were such and advantage over survivors as you said, then killers would win every game" with it being an hypothetical situation using your logic in response to you basically saying "Killers abilities nullifies the advantages survivors has for being 4, and that makes them OP and survivors totally defenseless". I don't believe anymore that even you believe what you say seriously. It can't be.

I already explained not only why that 60% killrate by itself doesn't mean anything, also that it isn't winrates and doesn't means that killers win even a 50% of their games, so go read it again. And you want balance, but not to address anything that affects how survivors abuse the game mechanics. And btw, I'm still waiting for a response of why anything of what I said indicates that I want is easy games or why my suggestion would do so.

That's doesn't make any sense, as by what you just said the game should couple heavy boxers survivors with great killers, not mediocre ones. And again, killers are OP because a number that doesn't mean anything more that what the number says is high?

Again, that killrate means nothing by itself, and you are talking like they would just implement a change to a game mechanic and leave the rest of the game just as it is right now. Of course if they do it they should also rebalance the rest of the game to accommodate this change AND I SAID IT MULTIPLE TIMES BY NOW.

Again, waiting for you to justify this claim with something that makes sense, as you made one time after another this claim that what I said would lead to killer taking game hostage and doesn't matter how I explain it to you it won't, you keep saying it without giving good reasons why!

False, that is a misconception of how MMR works. I get where you are coming from with this, but even if that's the way they explained MMR in the day it's just really an individual match for the survivor. For the killer, after the match, the final MMR would take in count if you killed or don't the 4 survivors, effectively making it a lost game if you don't hook at least 3 survivors in terms of MMR (in theory). But if you want to stick to that 61%, again, that would be 2.44 survivors per game killed (244 survivors killed in 100 games). So, even in terms of the MMR, killer are doing just fine to maintain their rating on average in top MMR, and that is the key here, average, because there would be survivors that win most of their "individual battles" against the killers, others that will lose more, killers that kills most of the survivors, others that would lose more games, and that is why they stated that killrate alone is not what they use to balance things like killer perks and such.

Again, if you can say when and where I said that is what I want for killer or explain to me rationally how what I suggested will have that effect I will stop talking here. More so after the explanation I gave you in my own post about how it would work and your claim that it would aggravate facecamping. And if anyone is curious about it: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291609

No. Sorry but no. You can't know they are the best players when the MMR supposedly just tracks how many times you are killed or not as equally you can't know who are overpowered or not by just kill or winrates and that's being a discussion since they implemented this system.

And you don't. That's why you don't like a suggestion to fix a mechanic survivors abuse which makes the use of perks like Eruption a need.

In all your comments, implicitly and literally more than one time. Not nerf m1 of course, but that killers are OP, which is what I meant using an exaggeration.

Like here. You really believe that me wanting an abusable game mechanic being fixed is me wanting killers to be OP (or stay OP, as you think they already are) when it is not. It's simple as it sounds, I want abusable game mechanics to being changed so the game can be better for everyone, whoever is killers or survivors abusing them.

And I would address the rest of your comment, but I would be here all day and if you don't understand it by now, is because you simply don't want to understand it. So have a nice day, and I hope we see in the fog... I will have a nice hook just waiting for you.

What corrupt does is it makes the map smaller for the killer by not having to spend too much time just by walking to the generators.