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Why Nurse's Attacks are basic explanation

GrimReaperJr1232
GrimReaperJr1232 Member Posts: 1,745
edited December 2022 in General Discussions

Let me be clear: the purpose of this thread is to share information and inform people. Agree or disagree all you want. I'm saying this off the bat because Sally is such a hot topic now.

Attack Types

We all know the two attack types: Basic Attacks and Special Attacks. Basic attacks benefit from Basic Attack perks and the Exposed status effect, but Special Attacks do not. Typically, Special Attacks are only modified by add-ons of their particular killer, such as Bubba possessing add-ons to inflict mangled/broken with his chainsaw.

What many do not know is that there is a third attack type. This is a sub group of a basic attack that I've aptly chosen to call "Sub Basic Attacks." McLean described Sub Basic Attacks to me as "basic attacks with additional properties."

An example of a sub basic attack would be Legion's Frenzy. The lunge speed/range calculations and such as are all the same as a basic attack, but it has the property of only inflicting Deep Wound. That's why it used to be Basic but was changed to Special.

While not outright confirmed, I believe that Demo's Shred and Pig's Ambush are also examples of a sub basic attack. My evidence is their interaction with Coup De Grace during Twins' original PTB, having an extended attack despite both being special attacks (Pig's ambush also formerly being Basic).

Nurse

As you might have guessed, Nurse's attack is a sub-basic attack and one that tries to emulate a basic attack as closely as possible.

Differences

How does Nurse's attack differ?

Lunge speed is calculated as 4.6 x 1.5 for a speed of 6.9m/s for the duration of the lunge. This lasts for 0.3 seconds. Formerly, 4.4 killers (and Nurse) had shorter lunge ranges due to being slower than 4.6, but this was later changed. Now, they all briefly become 4.6 for the duration of the lunge so they all have the same range unless they're moving faster than 4.6, obviously.

Blink attacks don't do that. Instead, it keeps her slower speed of 3.85m/s and multiplies it by 1.6, so 3.85 x 1.6 for 6.16m/s for a duration of 0.3 seconds. Yes, the unique property is slower speed/shorter range.

And that's it. Really. It was designed to emulate a basic attack and that's the only difference I could find. Even the hitbox (from what I could find) is the same, believe it or not.

Forgetting one?

In patch 3.4.0, BHVR went back and changed Pig's and Legion's attacks from Basic Attacks to Special Attacks. Curiously, they left Nurse untouched. Was this an accident? Did they forget her? No, this is a conscious decision. But why? Why do her attacks stay basic? I asked McLean, and he explained it to me.

Source

Reason One: Inability to chase normally

Nurse cannot chase without her blinks. Period.

Huntress, while relying on her hatchets, will have times she needs to brute force a loop and/or M1. At the very least, she has a choice. Nurse does not. She's the only killer that is completely reliant on her power.

As such, to make her attacks Special would be to make a killer who functionally cannot basic attack. I'm willing to bet that led to a lot of dev philosophical discussions of whether or not they are/should be okay with a killer unable to basic attack, and ultimately decided no.

Reason Two: Little difference

As I said before, there's only one real difference between blinks and basic attacks.

Now, you could make the argument of, "she goes through walls. That ain't special?"

Right you are, but then that raises questions for Hag that teleports or Slinger that literally puts you into Deep Wound. See reason 3 below

If we say, "Just make Nurse the exception..." The point of any change to Nurse should be to bring her further in line with other killers. Making her more of an exception to anything just further alienates her from them, which makes the game as a whole harder to balance since you have essentially different games being played.

Reason Three: What is as basic attack?

How do you decide what is/isn't a basic attack?

Property-wise, Nurse's attacks basically are basic attacks. If we say, "Any difference is too much difference" then we need to look at not only Slinger, but also the likes of Myers whose T1 lunge is nonexistent and T3 is longer (0.4-sec speed burst duration vs 0.3-sec).

If we say it's too closely connected to her power, where does this leave Hag, Spirit, or maybe even Wraith?

Should it be case by case? But what does that mean for future killers? How do you even deem is something should/shouldn't be a basic attack?

It opens up a can of worms that the devs want to leave closed for right now. It might change, or it might not. Time will only tell.

TL;DR

Nurse's attacks aren't really basic, they're sub-basic, which is an odd middle ground between Basic and Special. Changing it not raises a lot of questions about her and other killers, and the whole ordeal is extremely complicated. We can only wait and see how things may change.

Post edited by GrimReaperJr1232 on

Comments

  • versacefeng
    versacefeng Member Posts: 1,227

    For the sake of not making her even more broken with exposed perks. Her blink attacks should be counted as special attacks. I don’t see the point in defending a mistake like Nurse.

  • ByeByeQ
    ByeByeQ Member Posts: 1,104

    Nurse's 1st blink attack should be basic. You get no argument from me there.

    Her 2nd and 3rd blinks should be special.

    You wanna use exposure perks on Nurse? Get good at scoring that hit first blink.

  • kingcarl2012
    kingcarl2012 Member Posts: 1,710

    The way I see it and I think the fairest it could be would be to make blink attacks that travel through a solid object special attacks and attacks after the 2nd blink as well.

    If the nurse just blinks to someone in open space without going through a floor/wall/pallet/etc. I see no reason why that shouldn't be a basic attack.

    If however that blink takes her through an obstacle that she would not be able to pass through normally it is completely reasonable for that attack to not be a basic attack.

    This would need to receive some allowances that would make sense, partly in terms of her being harder to aim on console, but mostly also for doors, like if less than half of her touches wall while going through a door or just going past the outer edge of a loop I'd be fine with that.

  • SmolBlob
    SmolBlob Member Posts: 399

    Complaints about Nurse will never not get old. People see the explanation, ignore it. Sees her being balanced when she’s put against actually equal skill level players, ignore it.

  • Entitled_survivor
    Entitled_survivor Member Posts: 828

    I am perfectly fine with whatever nurse can do in the game,,,Her blink strikes should count as special attacks though,,