Dead Hard is fine
Dead Hard is a fine perk, it's a high risk/ high reward chase perk.
Why is it so used, well because of the reward, its the strongest chase perk survivors have even if its hard or inconsistent to pull off. And because its a perk with obvious skill expression and it just feels really good to get right, honestly the 1 time you get right feels so amazing, even if you messed up like 6 other times. Also because of the skill expression in the perk you can improve tremendously if you practice using it and feeling the killer's tendencies.
The perk simply changes the dynamic of a chase just by having it and to this day bhvr hasn't managed to release a single perk for survivors like that.
I would assume that the exhaustion mechanic was introduced to limit powers like this, so game changing that you have an entire mechanic so you won't stack multiple together. But to this day DH is the only perk that feels like that, an on demand ability that you can use, if you mess up you get nothing, if you get right massive reward.
I like it. And its nice having a meta perk that has actual risk and skill in using it. Not like other survivor or killer perks have that, they are all low risk/zero risk, high reward
Comments
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Rather agree. I'm ######### at timing and I don't trust latency, so I don't use DH (in most of my builds, I don't even have an exhaustion perk).
And every time I get hit by DH when I play killer, it's because I jumped the gun on hitting instead of waiting 0.5 second. I can live with that.
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Risk? What risk? Hit E under pallet. The killer respects and you get another loop or get to chain the loop or they don't and you get another loop or to chain a loop.
My primary issue with it is how tedious it makes every single chase. Hug the survivors ass for five seconds to see if they use dead hard. Every time, because you can't swing without being certain. The obligatory spin spin spin under my FoV. Very cute. I get it.
Honestly every time I see a sprint burst or lithe i breathe a sigh of relief. That's getting more rare now though. We're back to 3/4 DH per game.
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Is this the new tee hee I only dead hard into walls! You know it's getting dire when people are being self deprecating about it again.
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It is not fine, it gives a free health state with no real counter play if you know how to use it and it isn't like it takes a genius gaming expert to pull it off.
This perk is the survivors Eruption - completely broken and should be totally reworked/nerfed so it is completely different. It is crazy a perk that gives a 3rd health state multiple times in a single match still exists.
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Its a mind game, you can hit them if you time it right, also you are not always under a pallet. You said the strongest use of the perk, which even that has counter play, just becomes a 50/50 and making a wish upon a star that the servers work. I know that going against lithe and SB is way less stressful, you don't have to bait, yes i agree. I am just saying the perk is fine, they still need skill to do that play. But sprint bursting to the 3 connected loops with a shack is also a very skillfull play with lots of counterplay from the killer.
Let's be real, killer's just hate it because you feel c*** blocked. Because that is exactly what the perk does.
If you say you can't trust latency, i agree. I hate the servers and how bad some hits feel for either side
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I don't know what you're getting at, since I've never run DH, old or new. I just know that I would either forget to use it or panic and do it too early.
Half the time I have active abilities, I forget about them and only remember at the end screen. I'd rather take passive perks so that I don't forget anything.
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You need to teach me how. Because i don't have cheats to make it work all the time.
I barely see it working all the time, more like 50% of the time, especially with the lag.
Honestly i feel like i am being generous towards DH saying it works 50% of the time. And this is from my games and content creators. So i don't see how the perk is that consistent for you people
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fun perk to use but extremely boring to go against.
it should not be an exhaustion perk it needs to be earned kinda like wglf if you want a second chance in chase do something for it but in it's current state it's just so braindead.
a pig trying to use her dash, a chainsaw killer, a wesker, a trickster, a knight.. etc all these guys powers can be just outplayed by a press of a button with nothing these killers can do that's not fair.
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Latency is very hard to account for but this is not relevant either way - perks are not designed with the intention of it working a certain number of times based on latency or other variables that cannot be accounted for.
The problem is the design; when it works AS INTENDED it gives the user a 3rd health state and denies a killer a down they rightfully should have. Now a Nurse or strong killer can come back from a missed hit due to DH pretty well but a Trapper or other low tier killer cannot afford to be robbed of downs.
Ultimately DH will be nerfed/reworked as it is still a problem
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There is no risk. I've already written enough long posts about this in the last week, but the notion that Dead Hard is a "high risk" play is annoying bordering on aggravatingly stupid.
The TL;DR version (go find the 'does DH need a nerf' thread a few days back if you want the long ones) is that using it puts nothing on the line. You cannot, in any situation, have been worse off because you tried to press E and take a hit than if you hadn't tried to use DH. If you don't use DH, you go down. If you use DH, you might go down. Or you might not. No risk, high reward.
No, "it encourages greedy plays" doesn't make it a high risk perk. Some people use DH and don't greed for it. Some people play greedy without DH. Greeding pallets is high risk, DH is not.
No, "I'm not using an easier exhaustion perk" doesn't make it high risk. Other exhaustion perks require doing some dumb things too, or can be unavailable, and people can misplay those horribly to put themselves in a bad spot too (using the speed boosts in the wrong direction in such a way that cutting the corner leaves them even closer; like sprint bursting into a map corner).
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That's like killers being able to insta down after a pallet is thrown. Or be able to instadown even tho you has no hooks or hurt anyone. They go hand in hand. Killers have perks just as well as survivors. Can't say something about one and not the other. Not to mention how many aura reading perks the killers have to be able to see where all the survivors are. Distortion for the win 😁
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I wonder why killer nod when they waited out DH. It always feels like bad manners.
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You sure they're not nodding first to make it look like they're starting an anim to trick you into using it?
That's a false equivalence. 'Survivor is exposed in [specific situation] (and yes NOED is a specific and avoidable situation) and 'third HP state in the vast majority of chases' are very far apart. Note how every other perk that gives endurance is far more picky about when it comes into play. Even Mettle of Man's super-endurance isn't that reliable.
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yes, always when the survivor is on the ground
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No I'm saying that killers have umpteen perks that could make dh usless. Besides what's the big deal? Got nerfed into the ground just like iron will. I get iron will just geesus. All the nerfed to the survivor perks has made the game insufferable. Lowest of low escape rate I mean come on.
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a mind game that requires no thinking. Swing, hit deadhard, they can loop again. dont swing, that can still keep looping lol. third healthstate perks are an issue period
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I don't think you can call something 'nerfed into the ground' when it maintains the highest pick rate of any single perk and you'll regularly get lobbies with 4 DH in them again. There's obviously something fundamentally wrong with the perk design if after DH for distance being removed (so the easiest usage), and successful DH now appending an annoying status, and not working against Legion and Deathslinger (more than anyone else), and still not giving an opportunity against Exposed (although tbh then people just avoid healing and use it to get 2 health states anyway), it's still ubiquitous.
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Killers camping and tunneling every game is the issue. People would use the perks as much if there wasn't so much of that stuff. It's gotten ridiculous even with the Gen increase speed. I had a dude in my lobby that brought in a MEDKIT killer tunneled him to death for it. Like really? That what this game has come to.
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Well idk what ppl yall r playing but my teammates never get them off so, like I said nerfed into the ground. I never used the perk personally but I'm a firm believer that killers make ppl use the perks they do
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killers camp and tunnel because its the most reliable way to win. If survivors stopped doing everything to win, killers would do the same. both sides get punished for trying to bring unique things.
and respectfully, medkits are strong asf. running styptic and syringe guarentees a third health state, purple medkits can be used so many times and make killers stick to chases (another reason camping and tunneling is so prevolent- they spend so long in chase that they need to get pressure, so they try and force a hook trade or second state or both in exchange)
end of the day, dbd has an issue with meta, not bringing meta as killer against good survivors means a very fast loss, ggez, bags at gate. Not bringing meta against a good killer means being tunneled with no punishment, slow gen progress, and a ggez for killer.
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Honestly I escape maybe 3 times outta like 20 games. All I get is tome stone Myers with teammates that just sit there and bag him at pallets, or the ring chick who just tries to get everyone maxed out to mori them which means we are slugged all game. The game itself is not fun. I suck at killer but when I play even if I'm getting rolled I try not to tunnel or camp because it's all that's done to me. The amount of times that I've been slugged at 5 gens with no one having any points is unfreakingbelieveable. Honestly, I think once the chilled event is over the numbers will drop. It used to be my favorite game just wish they would stop making changes that don't need to be made and focus on the stuff that does.
Edit to add: and this is why everyone runs boons now, which I suppose is another big no no in the killer hand book. People want to heal. I solo q 100% of my games and my teammates well..yeah..this new survivor hud isn't going to make a difference
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i agree 100%. Most of the issues you have sound like issues with solo queue and matchmaking, the latter i think needs a massive overhaul, people with triple digit hours shouldnt be matched with brand new dwights
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You've been called out on your bad false equivalency and now you're screeching about camping and tunneling. Completely unrelated. Go in for the greatest hits and make your next post "solo queue bad".
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As already said, false equivalence and your statement that there are perks to deal with DH is just plain wrong.
My main role is survivor btw but I also play killer and I don't run Eruption because its broken and for the same reason I don't run Dead Hard as survivor.
Nothing takes away from the fact that DH gives a free 3rd health state and can do so multiple times in a match and that is just as unfair as Eruption making multiple survivors useless for multiple times in one match, also with no counter play if they are solo players.
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Yes that is the issue I believe. I get that everyone wants to give and no one wants to give. But when you have a 10000000000 hour God huntress against you and a group of 200 hour players well its bogus. I think they should go back to old ranks. Lose pips when you do bad. Not this hidden crap that no one knows what's going on. I lose 10 games then I go up against a freaking God tier blight or huntress like...huh
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Wait...called out on what? I thought this was adults having a civil conversation?
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Just like killers having a perk to be able to insta down someone who either pallet stuns them or fast vaults said pallet. I mean faking out is a good strat..it's what I do 🤷♀️
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I can only take that anybody still complaining about DH doesn't want survivor perks to have any utility.
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People would use the perks as much if there wasn't so much of that stuff.
No, that is absolutely not what would happen.
BHVR: "let's add 10s to gen times so killers don't need as much slowdown." Killers: Stacks more slowdown. (Granted, BHVR released Hyperfocus right after doing this.) BHVR could increase gen times to double what they are and Eruption+COB would still be meta.
If BHVR "fixes" tunneling and camping, survivors are still going to run DH. "The game is too easy now so I will stop bringing DH" is not something that is going to happen unless DH stops being the best survivor perk in the game.
Both sides are generally going to bring stuff that makes it easier to win. Stop pretending like it's killers' fault that DH still has the highest pick rate; it's BHVR's fault.
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Killers stacked more slowdown because the 10s gen time came with a nerf to the perks that actually made for the most slowdown (I did a rough estimate on it on the 'why are killers lazy' thread). Unfortunately, Eruption forces a 3-gen playstyle to be at its most effective, and once you have that 3 gen it can get more total slowdown than the old meta because of reapplication after reapplication.
But old pop had better burst slowdown, and old ruin was CoB everywhere so it did way more to actually stall the game (at least until cleansed) and buy the early time needed. And then Hyperfocus was added on top of it. And the Bloodweb rework means it's very rare to not see any items or toolboxes. And Prove Thyself is still also a really good BP perk, so people bringing at least one gen progress perk is common.
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Don't disagree with any of this.
But my point isn't about specific perks, it's a rebuttal to the point "people will stop bringing strong perks when they don't need them to win."
No, people will (generally) bring stuff that makes it easy to win.
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I never said that anything was killers "fault" I stated an opinion of my own free will. If you're that titled over it maybe you should breathe a little bit. I'm only speaking on my own experience and no one else's. I don't speak for all 100% solo q survivors just as you or no one else speaks 100% killer mains. There's is always going to be stuff that the other side does or has no matter what. I get gens are too fast, I get having x y and z makes it harder. But I'm speaking on the games where my entire team is slugged never hooked and left to bleed out. Getting that treatment enough is gonna make anyone throw on meta perks. I just wish that most killer mains could have the "fun" games wr have over and over and over and be told to get good or stop using crutch perks..again MY OPINION...just so you know.
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Lol, "tilted." What a cute way to dismiss a reply, as though the only possible reason someone could disagree with you is because they're angry, not because what you said is wrong.
Killers camping and tunneling every game is the issue. People would use the perks as much if there wasn't so much of that stuff.
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I never said that anything was killers "fault"
That's pretty much exactly what you said.
I don't care either way, bring what you want. But saying that DH's pick rate will go down in any significant way if killers stop playing a certain way is laughable.
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I honestly think it would. And I hardly see anyone on my team playing with it. I sure don't I tried it before and I dead harded into a wall so no thanks. But this whole this and that crap is never ending. Survivors crying about killer perks killers crying about survivor perks. But my main thing is, and I stand by this..that tunneling and camping have gotten so much worse. And I'm not talking about because gens are flying. I'm talking 5 gens still up. Killers tunneling because someone brought in 1 and 1 one item. It's getting out of hand, I've ran into more people lately saying that they don't like the game anymore. I just hate seeing the numbers drop because it's one of my fav games. Just sad to see is all.
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Oh, sure.
I think it's particularly emblematic of how mediocre chase perks can be (and aura reading can be iffy), as well as other slowdown, that more regression is the eternal meta. And that 6.1.0 backfired there.
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I honestly think it would. And I hardly see anyone on my team playing with it.
I see 3-4 a match pretty consistently these days.
I sure don't I tried it before and I dead harded into a wall so no thanks.
The first time that I really used DH was last week when I was doing the David adept. Which, incidentally, is the worst survivor adept by far just because of No Mither. Holy hell. Anyway, I probably easily hit over 80% of my DHs. It's not a hard perk to use, with the caveat that latency can mess with the timing quite a bit. You have to predict the latency impact as much as when the killer will attack.
Otherwise, I mostly agree with this reply. It is a shame to see a lot of killers tunneling early. Having said that, it is often a very effective strategy and that's BHVR's fault. I would love to see them address tunneling in a way that doesn't put killers at a huge disadvantage, because then the game would be more fun for everyone.
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I really wouldn't call it risky. It's not op any more. But it's like me calling alch ring risky because if I don't get a hit, I don't get value. That's kinda absurd to say that right?
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Exactly this. People need to stop pretending (including BHVR) that players (not all) will stop taking the path of least resistance. "Most Effective Tactics Available" is a thing. Making something easier to do does not mean players will stop gravitating towards the easiest way to do it. It's on BHVR's shoulders to make sure that the easiest path is overall something fun for those involved, and that the meta for both sides gives them a roughly equal chance to win. Nothing else will fix the problems. Full stop.
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Deadhard is still the best perk in the game.
By far!
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Dead hard still puts the killer in lose-lose situations. The most common one is:
The survivor is looping a pallet. You get close enough to get the hit. But there's a problem. If you swing, they'll dead hard. If you try to 'wait it out' they'll simply drop the pallet.
Also I don't see where the risk is
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Such a huge truth. You always begin a match with though like "It's better to tunnel someone right now, then trying to do it with 3 hooks and 2 gens left like in past 10 matches." I wish i don't need to play like that, really, but this is game's state right now
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After CoH. CoH is still game-breaking perk
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I remember the first two weeks after DH's nerf. Many SPs and Lithes but very few DHs. It was so nice to just safely swing as a killer when you won the chase and really END the chase just like that. Now it's back to business and that means waiting behind the survivor, smelling on their butts, watching them break their ankles in an attempt to make you swing, develop a deep understanding of their origins, scout their next move, get so close you might as well be their siamese twin before swinging only to suffer multiple levels of depression when you see their character lighting up, knowing that you will never mentally recover from that.
So yeah. It's alright.
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That's what I'm saying.
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So what dire situation made survivors use old DH constantly for over a year with close to 75% pick rate in the higher skill reaches, leading to the most abyssmal state the killer gameplay had ever been, where you honestly questioned yourself why you are even playing, as this single perk was sucking the fun out of the game, usage by usage? Maybe it was the existential angst of not being the top tormentor back in the days, when survivors were the power role, no questions asked.
And DH is once again on the same train, sucking the fun out of the chases. EVERY single chase with EVERY new survivor you must wait it out, bait it out, until you are sure that its gone or not in play. The short time after patch 6.1 dropped was SUCH a liberating time and breath of fresh air: when you had a survivor cornered you could just swing. No strings attached. No waiting. No baiting. No fiddling. Just swing. It was the best time of my life. Now its back to "fufufu but if you have them outplayed and they press E and zoom off, had you really outplayed them? and its so tiresome and tedious and sometimes I just give up if the first, expensive and draining chase ends with a DH to a vault or palett and off they are.
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The problem is that DH works better than all the other exhaustion perks by a large margin. It gets picked more often and helps more high skilled players escape than the other exhaustion perks.
DH allows for extra health states which is not healthy for the game. To "pay" for those extra heath states out of chase DH should have some kind of compensating negative. As an example - every time you take a deep wound you heal 50% slower for the rest of the game. That is an appropriate level penalty.
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