What’s the point in spreading pressure?
Before CoH I felt like a good killer. I knew how and when to leave a chase, how to pressure survivors a bit more and switch targets.
these days, since coh have come to the game(in high-top mmr there is no single(!!!) game without 1-3 of them) it’s pointless.
if leave a chase I know that this guy go to the boom to undone my hit so quickly, risking going for a new guy that also knows how to loop in this mmr.
i really truly believe this perk is the most busted survivor perk in the game(even more with shadow step on indoor) and I’ve seen games as survivor being lost just cause no one had this perk.
Comments
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CoH is not that strong anymore. It doesn't save enough time. It's just very high visibility, which is why it's popular and why it comes up as a possible reason why you're losing.
I wouldn't be surprised if the average win-rate for builds with CoH is actually lower than for builds without it.
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If it's not CoH, it's medkits. If it's not medkits, it's Bond so they can find someone to heal them, or We'll Make It to keep their teammates healthy. You can't avoid survivors playing smart and staying healthy, good survivors know not to stay injured and give the killer an easy down.
My advice is to pick killers that can end chase quickly, so if you run into healthy a survivor you can chew through their health states with ease. That, or bring chase perks to help tie up chases sooner if your killer is a little lacking in lethality.
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I'm a blight main who plays without heavy slowdown, reached high mmr bracket(2-8k hours survivors who loop amazingly and are highly efficient) and sees how one chase can ruin the game and if I don't commit, there's no weak link to just 2 tap.
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I mean, I don't understand your problem then. You're playing a strong killer that you are clearly good at, with builds that work well with your playstyle.
How is CoH an issue? If you hit a survivor then leave them because they try to bring you to an undesirable side of the map, they go and heal at the circle. This is 32 seconds of time they are spending healing, which translates into 32 seconds of slowdown you have earned for yourself by landing that hit (not including how long it takes for them to physically get to the circle).
Am I missing something, or is it almost 3am and I need to go to bed?
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You are missing that CoH's self-heal takes 21.3 seconds because the 50% heal speed boost does affect it. (Though also, the boon being up means he also already got 14 seconds of slowdown)
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The issue, in my eyes, is self healing. Take bond and heal eachother, that at least takes time and effort that isn't on a generator.
Circle of healing I can just run to and heal myself, not stopping gen progress to a noticable degree. Same with medkits, but at least those eventually run out.
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You can't honestly say COH isn't strong. The time saved doesn't matter when you cant apply pressure. Survivors can chip at gens quicker then most killers can defend them and with COH it makes it so you HAVE to dedicate almost every single chase. It creates a damned if you do damned if you dont situation where if you commit you lose gens but if you dont then they heal and jump straight on a gen. A good team (not even a 4 man) can abuse the hell out of COH with little to no effort
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Hold on, what's that scenario look like without CoH though? Where killers can build pressure without leaving gens?
Because that, to me, sounds like a loss/loss on the survivor side. Either you don't do gens and get timed out, or you try to clear a gen and get downed.
Also, what's to stop these teams from achieving similar with other, less conspicuous perks? One guy with Botany can achieve CoH speeds.
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I thought this was a necro thread from last year.
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How do you know your high/top mmr? What does your invisible # say?
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I play against comp thai teams many times, against survivors who have 2500 hours+ at minimum(today against a swf, the highest one had almost 10k and the lowest 5k hours, comp team) and tons of strong swfs. and I can see high level of survivor gameplay almost every single game.
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It's not CoH itself, it's how it affects med kits.
You can't seriously think self healing in 5-6 seconds is balanced, do you?
If they removed it's bonus to med kits, it would be balanced.
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It is how one perk be able to provide 4 people to be able to self heal themselves without wasting slot on medkits, healing perks.
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I feel like the 'self-healing action is an automatic -50% healing speed' needs to be more obvious in the perk. I'm certain that most people who complain about CoH are confused by that. All they read is 'increased healing speeds' and picture a solo survivor healed in 10 seconds.
I'm also amused that boon setup time is always ignored, even though booning a totem (especially when uninjured) is exactly the kind of secondary objective people beg and plead for constantly.
CoH is healthy for the game because it's one of the few perks that helps bridge the solo q/swf gap. There's a literal beacon for people to go to for heals rather than 'meet me at the gen outside shack'.
And the alternative to CoH is that people will just run medkits, which are faster heals, can be used anywhere, and have no travel or setup time. Shoot, it even leaves up to 4 perk slots for something useful like gen speed perks.
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One guy with botany can achieve it for himself, one guy with COH achieves it for the full team. Not to mention, its not so much as the healing speed boost, its that they can do it without the help of anyone.
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One guy with botany can heal everyone but himself at +50% speed. CoH does work on a wider scale but also requires slowdown due to the initial set-up, and the range limitation.
But if you, as killer, keep patrolling a 3-gen and keep injuring survivors but letting them go, that Botany will nullify your pressure as faster, or even faster than CoH does.
And you can't snuff out Botany.
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There was a time where every survivor ran selfcare, DS, and SB.
CoH? Not an issue for me.
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There is a few issues with this assessment, first lets look at the 14 seconds of slowdown you get for the actual booning action, you need to look at that on a per heal basis. Each heal you get on a single boon increases its efficiency, so looking at self heals at 21 sec/heal plus 14 for the boon, that is 35 sec total, however if you get say 4 heals accross the team, that means that 1 booning action gets divided amongst each of those heals to 3.5 sec/heal, which brings that down to 25 sec total per heal.
Futhermore looking at the slowdown gained by a self heal action of 21 seconds, you really dont actually get all of that as actual slowdown, unless you are getting a oneshot down.
Looking at it more realistically, if you do the basic math without taking into account exhaustion perks extending the chase, using a basic M1 killer at 4.6 m/s, this can be calculated quite easily.
Lets take a pretty favorable situation, survivor heals and is full heath instead of injured working on a gen, they take a hit at the gen that would have downed them if they were injured, the clock starts here.
Survivor runs at 6m/sec for 2 sec and gains approx 10m of distance, at this point the killer gains at a rate of .6m/sec taking 16 seconds to catch up. Now obviously alot of other factors can affect this killer powers, looping, dead hard, dropping a pallet, individual mistakes. But at its base a 21 sec heal buying you 16 sec of extra chase time means that a self heal only actually buys on average about 5 seconds of actual slowdown, Against a good survivor at a decent tile it can easily actually be a net negative.
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I think I just got whiplash with how fast you moved that goal post.
No one is arguing that being fully healed is advantageous for the survivor. The point is that CoH takes an investment of setup time, is slower than other, guaranteed forms of healing, and killers have a base kit method to deal with it by snuffing the totem.
If I bring a medkit, your only hope is that you brought franklin's or that you catch me directly to interrupt the heal. Medkit heals anywhere, which is convenient, is way faster (I could medkit heal in your face mid chase), and I can bring add-ons for even more free healing mid chase.
Every single one of your arguments applies to medkits as well, and the medkit is superior to CoH in basically every way until you get into long, drawn out attrition games.
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However, this is also all comparing it against a backdrop where there is no other means of healing beyond CoH, which is not the usual case.
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Sorry man CoH is one of the best counters to three geners
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If you're actually good at macro. spreading pressure will give you far more consistent results than just hoping you can tunnel someone out before the game is in an unwinnable state for you.
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When people don't run CoH, it's super easy nowadays to run loaded medkits that never run out.
CoH just enables things like multiple BNP without losing the 'everyone can self heal fast' problem. Which is a problem, just for inherently transforming a situation which is 3 survs off gens (injured, healing, chased) into 2 survs off gens, vastly reducing the slowdown effect and meaning there's a lot less of people risking doing gens injured because they can't go get the heal (obviously, SWF and good players are way more likely to go get the healing in that situation, but it's still a thing).
It probably doesn't help that CoH's nerfs were followed by the Bloodweb rework, so we went from a game where great medkit stacking was occasional to being a thing that's pretty easy to do (if people weren't so flashlight obsessed). And very little slow self care use that eats a perk.
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I think CoH is old news when the real problem is medkits, particularly green ones. I think CoH could use some fine tuning maybe but it's not the perk it once was.
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So it's not CoH that's the issue, because without it, people would be running much more efficient heals.
Also...
Which is a problem, just for inherently transforming a situation which is 3 survs off gens (injured, healing, chased) into 2 survs off gens
How does that work, exactly? Why is the injured person not on a gen? Unless you meant he injured person is currently being healed, in which case, there's not much difference between the two. Either way, survivors lose roughly the same amount of seconds, not counting the set-up and travel times.
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Because average-case mutual healing doesn't have the injured surv sat on the gen? Seems to happen a lot less. Which gets two people off generators. And because the time inefficiencies factor in more than once (because we have two people), that's better for the Killer.
Especially if they're able to end their chase before the two people get back on generators.
So it's not CoH that's the issue, because without it, people would be running much more efficient heals.
It's still an issue, because the one perk on the team can enable some truly ridiculous gen pressure instead, at the cost of not having optimal self healing. Two facets of the same problem.
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Again, you need one person to bring COH and then you never have to worry about healing someone. COH allows one person to be injured, run away, then start healing while the other 3 keep on pressuring the 3 gen or whatever else is needed. Botany you need 1 person always out of the game so you're left with 3 people and again, the slow down doesn't matter its the self heal that makes it op
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Yes. Self-healing should only be available to the perk user. Show the aura of injured survivors inside the boon so that someone else has to come heal them with CoH's heal speed boost.
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If CoH killed hit and run strats, then good. I haven't played a game where a killer stopped chasing me around the map no matter how short or long I run them enough to heal. To my knowledge that was a popular strat with wraith but that's about it. Most players that boon also stupidly keep putting the boon in the same place so its a sure fire way to know where they'll be. Can't tell you how many people are hit off boons or killed because they rather boon than make a save or do a gen in my solo games. SWF/comp teams don't even use CoH that much as they are usually comfortable to run injured with DH and you can call out meeting spots for a heal or they run the whole game hurt for adrenaline in the end. Unless it is more popular to keep healing in other regions other than NA where I play. And if you are encountering it EVERY game you can get some benefit out of shattered hope or nurses.
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Either you have one survivor healing for 21 seconds, or two survivors healing for 10.5 seconds, it really does not make that much of a difference.
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One survivor healing for 20 seconds while 3 survivors are pressuring 3 separate generators and can easily switch off or 2 survivors (one of which has to hang back to even heal the others btw) who have to heal across the map while the other 2 pressure gens at a much slower rate
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CoH doesn't take 32 seconds, it takes 21 seconds. Additionally, the reality is that the amount of time a survivor spends healing themselves is less than the amount of time it took the killer to land that hit. That is the problem with CoH. At least with medkits, they have a limited amount of uses. But the boon is forever, even if you cleanse it. When 2 survivors heal each other, then it takes 32 seconds (16 total seconds, but 2 survivors) which tilts it more into the neutral zone.
The reality is, CoH and many other perks are just reasons why tunneling is the meta. Better to tunnel someone off the hook, and only deal with 1 health state, then to deal with dead hard, and 3 health states, and trying to spread pressure that just gets deleted with CoH.
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There aren't three survivors pressuring separate gens unless the killer is afk. There's also no reason for the person with botany to hang back instead of doing gens. And CoH does not affect gen speeds, so why do 'the other 2 pressure gens at a much slower rate'?
Also, have to keep the minimum 14 seconds set-up time in mind. CoH cannot play even with other healing perks once it's set up, it needs to have a chance to overtake them to offset the set-up time.
"When 2 survivors heal each other, then it takes 32 seconds (16 total seconds, but 2 survivors) which tilts it more into the neutral zone."
Well, yeah, that's the neutral zone. That's the flat default. But if you're trying to argue that that is where CoH should be balanced to, you're legitimately trying to make the perk pointless.
It's a perk. It's supposed to be beneficial to the survivors.
Not every perk can be No Mither/Autodidact.
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I went to go check, and it is indeed 21 seconds. Strange, imo.
Still, I find CoH to be more help than hindrance as killer. I play killers that get fast downs (i.e. Slinger), so I don't mind if survivors are healthy when I find them. 21 seconds rubbing their belly is better than 21 seconds on a gen, imo.
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The reason it's 21 is because even though it's at 50% speed, you also still get the +50% healing speed bonus with that, meaning you're actually self-healing at 75% speed overall.
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You don't. Usually you tunnel.
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If CoH wasn't strong, survivors wouldn't bring it consistently.
Simple as.
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Boons were such a bad idea, especially coh.
Healing should have a cap
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Self-care was a thing.
There's more than one reason for the perk to have a solid pick-rate.
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You guys have to account that the healing speed of CoH (21s) its not just better than a normal healing (2 people, 16s heal, 32s spent), but it can cut by A LOT the time invested in mobility:
2 Survivors need to find a safe place to heal before starting the healing action. So they spend the +16s in healing + the time to get to a safe place (which can consume a lot of time). With CoH, one survivor alone can heal itself from the other side of the map, saving the time that another surv would have to spend traveling to the healing spot, heal the other, and back to his/her generator. The 32s can easily become a 1m+ hidrance for one single healing.
I really wish CoH get rework into something else, especially since its the only boon that work really well outside the killer presence. Health states shoulds not be granted that easily.
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Facts.
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3 surivors with the new information buffs on gen and 1 in chase > 1 killer. There is no point in spreading pressure especially if the one in chase is a good looper and predrops plus dead hard as a safety net.
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And Self Care was rightfully nerfed to not work with Med Kits.
Exactly what CoH needs. Then and only then would people stop bringing this perk.
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Just tunnel
Nothing in the game says you can't
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