This game has become so survivor biased it's killing the fun for me.
Killer perks that became meta last year? Already nerfed into pointlessness (See also: Eruption) while overpowered survivor meta perks that have been meta for six years like Dead Hard go unnerfed.
Red Forest has been reworked into another survivor sided map set due to how much clutter there is to get caught up on and so much for survivors to use to break line of sight.
That's not even getting into how overpowered SWF is and BHVR refusing to do anything to address that particular elephant in the room. Coordination is game breaking and BHVR doesn't care.
People keep saying this or that will kill the game but want to know what will really kill the game? BHVRs complete and utter apathy towards game balance.
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I have played survivor almost exclusively for years. Killer is significantly more fun and easier than ever. I'm maining Skull Merchant now and am having a blast. But hey, you feel better after getting that rant out?
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Let me know how you feel when the joke that is Skill Based Match Making pits you up against Seal Team 6 five games in a row.
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6.1.0 nerfed DH and that came out less than a year ago. BHVR have had a glacial speed towards balance for almost 7 yeses now and yet the game is still going. Hope this helps!
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Those games are so incredibly rare that it's laughable. If they're that coordinated, then so be it. Guess what? You aren't supposed to win every game. If you have had a string of luck where your MMR goes to a point where you aren't skilled enough to handle these teams... well that's what being boosted means. Even with their new desired kill rate, you shouldn't be winning more than maybe two out of every 3 games you play, if you're facing balanced teams.
Edit: You must also be fairly new, because the game has nerfed survivors an absolute ton. You should go see some content from 5-6 years ago when there were genuine infinite loops, self care had no penalty, sprint burst could be used every 40 seconds even in chase, Decisive Strike pretty much meant the first time you tried to hook someone, you were going to get stunned unless you were very careful and they went down right by a hook.... Killer is easier than ever.
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And Dead Hard quickly reasserted itself into the meta despite being 'nerfed'.
A match where literally every survivor had Dead Hard just tonight.
Dead Hard got nerfed with a scalpel. Eruption meanwhile no longer has any real use since the main reason to use it was not the regression, it was the Incapacitation. The aura reading it has now is an utter joke and useless for most Killers.
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Eruption was unhealthy and only really worked against solo survs anyways. Please stop crying over that nerf. It was necessary.
while game balance still needs plenty of adjustments, no other asymmetric horror game came close to DbD in this regard and BHVR actually made it more balanced over the years generally (with plenty of missteps sure)
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I'm all for just deleting Dead Hard from the game entirely, really.
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I don’t know.
but both got some kind of nerf already. Maybe they are part of the next midchapter perk updates.
also they are not on the same level as Eruption was for soloq.
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To be fair, dead hard got nerfed in a way a lot of killers suggested. Most of them said the distance gain was the problem.
They might have been wrong, however, devs nerfed it, and in a way the community suggested.
The fact that you just ignore that fact in the opening post discredits you from the start.
Also, yes, coordination breaks the game, but there are killers, tactics and perks that need coordination, or they become oppressive. Thats why eruption had to be nerfed.
The problem is, that they want to keep swf and solo in one system and balance around both extremes at the same time, and that simply doesnt and will never work.
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And neither nerf was meaningful enough to remove them from the meta. They need to be nerfed into the ground with the same pile driver BHVR used to gut Eruption, Ruin and such.
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Killer is far better now than it was a year ago.
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It's the meta because it's the only fun exhaustion perk.
It's also not very good and if you're getting outplayed by it, it's your own fault.
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And neither nerf was meaningful enough to remove them from the meta. They need to be nerfed into the ground with the same pile driver BHVR used to gut Eruption, Ruin and such
That’s definitely not a reasonable point of view. lol
yeah they need to be nerfed more, but not like that.
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That isn't the argument you think it is.
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Pulsar never said they shouldn't. OP's position that the game is incredibly survivor biased is just flat wrong though.
The fact that Killer is the easiest it ever has been is his point. A point that is just a fact.
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Like?
Killer is pretty damn good right now for me. It might be a bit too easy, but that's probably just me.
Likewise, I never said they shouldn't continue to address issues as they arise, but OP's opinion is simply wrong.
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What is it then?
You said, "This game has become so survivor-biased."
The game was literally JUST at it's most Killer-sided. Eruption being nerfed is a big deal, but this is still the BEST Killer has been since the game came out.
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That's not a good excuse anymore. Solo is now almost as good as SWF thanks to the info update.
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That was a good one 👍
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You got the evidence. BHVR nerfed Eruption in PTB and everyone scolded for doing that until they reverted the extreme nerf. From total progression to current progression and now from current progression to total progression.
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HAHAHAHAH
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But that wasn't what was mentioned.
You said "while overpowered survivor meta perks that have been meta for six years like Dead Hard go unnerfed."
Dead Hard has been nerfed within the last year. It has not gone unnerfed.
Hope this helps!
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Impressive. Meanwhile I continue to lose games in 4 minutes (6 minutes with survivors teabagging me at the exit gates) even when I do decently good in chase and get 3-4 hooks in that time.
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Honestly current killer is probably the most fun I’ve had with the role. My only issue is pop being terrible and DH but even then I’d rather the DH meta than the SB meta
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As someone who has thousands of hours in each role, I can confidently say that the killer role is SO much better than it has ever been.
If you face an equally skilled solo queue team? You are favored to win.
If you face an equally skilled SWF? You have the potential to win if you play 'optimally'.
Unfortunately, a lot of killer players got so used to being absolutely carried by Eruption, which was an absolutely busted perk. It will take a little time for their MMR to be adjusted back to normal.
Sure, there are some things that need to be fixed. There shouldn't be 4 medkits or 4 toolboxes in a game. Period. Prove Thyself and similar perks shouldn't give such a big boost to generator speed.
But honestly, the players still complaining about killer being a 'weak role' need to be completely ignored.
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Killer perks that became meta last year? Already nerfed into pointlessness (See also: Eruption) while overpowered survivor meta perks that have been meta for six years like Dead Hard go unnerfed.
So, DBD is an asymmetrical game, which has some consequences.
For one: Survivor perks =/= Killer perks. They're vastly different, and on the whole, killer perks are better than survivor perks. Survivor perks have a ton of 'chaff'. Perks that do not find much use in any match and thus fall by the wayside. IMO, last chapter added like five of that category.
This does mean that the rest of the perks are more likely to show up, meaning 'meta' perks are more likely to surface.
For another: While survivor = survivor, killer =/= killer.
With a variance of killer powers, perks change in usage rate between different killers. Starstruck is stronger on Nurse than it is on Sadako. Infectious Fright is stronger on Oni than it is on Trickster. Iron Maiden is stronger on Huntress than it is on Trapper.
For survivors, since all survivors are roughly identical, whatever is strong on one survivor is strong on all of them.
This means a survivor meta will be quickly recognisable, whereas with killers... Well, there should logically be tons of different metas. Hoarder, for example, might be meta on Pinhead and on basically no one else. That's normal.
However, when a perk rears up that is meta on ALL killers (And thus more likely to be recognised as an actual 'meta' perk), that does also mean it's more likely to be a problem, since it's overcoming different power sets and playstyles to be considered 'best in slot' even for killers that don't necessarily synergise with it. That is indicative of it being over power budget, so to speak. (That's not to say that they -always- are, just that they are -more likely- to be.)
Thirdly: As much as people want to deny it, in the vast majority of matches, the killer is the power role.
The only time survivors can be considered the power role is in multi-survivor chases. Bully squads circling a killer's down like vultures waiting to pull off a flashlight or sabo-save. But outside of those bully squads, the game is driven by the actions of the killer, to which the survivor responds.
This does mean that anything the killer does is -far- more likely to be oppressive.
That's why killer perks are more likely to be trimmed down, and quicker. That's not to say survivors didn't get slapped around, their entire meta got messed up in 6.1, with the exception of Dead Hard. After all, DS is gone, and it basically took Unbreakable with it. BT is gone too, and that foursome of perks were basically the core of the survivor pre-6.1 meta.
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Prove doesn’t boost Gen speeds; it just removes the penalty of multiple survivors working on a Gen together. Which tbh is a ridiculous handicap to begin with.
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Dead hard was nerfed last summer and it used to be lot better and uncounterable. Probably though it should get another nerf or other exhaustion perks should get buffs to add more perk diversity. But dh is not nearly as common as it used to be. Eruption however was just fundamentally broken and needed to be nerfed.
Devs are not survivor biased. Killer is in very good position now compared to past. But still improvements could be made to get lower tier killers more viable. And if you want to punish people playing with their friends that would kill the game. Only way is to bring SoloQ as close to swf and balance in between them. But most swf are still not that good and almost as easy to win agains't as soloQ.
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The co-op speed penalty is really weird, as it encourages survivors to split up. But that also makes them harder to pressure, meaning the most efficient strategy on gens is also the safest.
It should be reversed, with gens taking longer to complete solo, but the same time to complete with 2. (And a little less with 3)
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DS / DH / IW all got nerfed along with killer perks and except dead hard the rest are barely used what on earth are you on about ? did you even play the game before the meta shakeup thing ?
Swf will never be touched because no sane game dev will handicap people for playing with their friends PERIOD
Most maps could use some balance though i do agree on that
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Then you risk 3 survivors grouping up on a gen while the last is in chase and finishing it in 25 seconds without the need for toolboxes. Not a good idea. This is already a problem with Prove Thyself. It allows survivors to push one gen out so fast the killer cannot defend it.
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How do you know it'd be 25 seconds? IIRC, the calculation I ran for the suggestion I originally devised made it barely any faster than 3-manning a gen back when it was 80 seconds.
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I'm on like a 4 game losing streak right now. Someone tell those killers they are supposed to be crap and let me go.
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Well that's certainly a massive generalisation! For some killers like Nurse, Blight and maybe Spirit? Yes, it is.
For your average M1 killers it is not, and that's mostly because of the maps. When Borgo came out, it was an overly faulty map, the amount of clutter around and within loops was and sometimes still IS insane.
The fact that there are tiles with many pallets connecting to windows that connect to X amount of more pallets... those are the things that need some looking into. Map sizes should get looked at, new Eeyrie is so much more balanced. Don't get me started on the hit-validation on Garden of Pain, and the bushes... OP is right to some degree, the game needs more balancing, perhaps less butchering of certain perks and more MAPS 😁✌️
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yeah you're right
lets go back in time when the game was so much more killer biased
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If the game were equally fun for both sides and equal number of players queued as both roles, matchmaking would take forever.
The game has to be 4x more miserable for the killer to keep the 4:1 survivor to killer ratio, for matchmaking purposes.
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Without the penalty it's 90 seconds / 3 = 30 seconds. Now put into account that everyone will hit some skill checks and you're down to 25 seconds. You're probably right that I was a bit generous though. It'd likely be more like 22 seconds.
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Ugh I quoted the wrong person. My bad.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367904/#Comment_3367904 that was who I meant to quote.
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And I specifically said that gens should take the same time to complete with two, and a little less with 3, so that 90 second baseline would be outdated already.
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Great, when are Dead Hard and Circle of Healing getting the necessary nerfs they need considering how unhealthy they are for the game?
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Oh?
So you'd rather go back to Old Haddonfield with old DH?
The game is 10x easier for Killers now.
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They've both already been nerfed heavily.
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Certainly. Lightborn, Corrupt Intervention, Jolt, Deadlock. For add-ons, I just use a pair of browns. The one for shorter activation cooldown and the one that makes trapped survivors break pallets when vaulting. Not at the computer, so don't have the names handy.
I pick a 3-gen and set drones, but I don't camp them. Just keep the drones active as I chase, using the last drone to force survivors to leave a loop or risk getting beaten by expose or the undetectable status. This far, it's been very effective. Only had two games now where I haven't had at least three kills.
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Are you okay?
you literally asked me exactly that before and I gave an answer? (Well maybe spam filter or something sent it again?)
and just to be clear, I do think they need further nerfing
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I'm really hoping that devs do one week of showing killers who they are playing against so you can find out that the team you crushed was a SWF and the team that crushed you were four solos. Then maybe y'all can drop the excuse that you lost because the team was SWF and simply be truthful that you made mistakes or could have played better.
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Circle of Healing is way less of an issue than people give it credit.
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I actually think it's way more of an issue than DH.
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Yes, because that's what I said. Out of everything I wrote that was the right takeaway, good job on your reading comprehension buddy :)
Serves me right for responding to a survivor main, uhg you're so uninspired and always regurgitating the same nonsense.
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Are you SURE I'm a Survivor main?
Think carefully and consider that you shouldn't call people names because they disagree with you; that's a very childish reaction :)
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