Otz's Tunneling Experiment

3vs4 sounds to mee too many killers but I will definetely try it but personally I would hope 2vs8 mode to dbd. Just imagine Oni with legion or plague unlimited power... I hope the texas chainsaw is popular and forces dbd to add new game mode. That's only way I imagine it can happen. If they can't do 2vs8 for me 2vs4 is fine too. But it would need lot of balancing...

Instead just making gens slower they could add secondary objective which each unhooked survivors would have to do amd before that they could be just incapable of doing gens or have massive gen fix speed penalty. Now that second objective should take decent amount of time. So now if killer chooses to tunnel gens will go fast but if not then the match will go slowly.

There's a lot of problems in this game that I'd like addressed, but I try to stay practical and realistic about it. I don't think there's anything we can do for camping and tunneling that would solve the problem without causing more problems. It will always be a thing so long as it's possible to do, and I can't think of a way to make it impossible that wouldn't wreck the killers' experience and/or be weaponized by survivors.

They strays close to implementation of punitive mechanics which is bad design.

Getting rid of tunneling via hard mechanic intervention would most likely be received negatively by the people who use the strat. It would just feel like a punishment rather than a healthy change if it was structured to be a hard lock out of the strat.

Realistically the better option would be to change the gameplay loop for both sides so that the strat can be phased out alongside other mechanical or strategic pain points to just overall refresh the game as a whole. Though that isn't something that is likely to happen in this current iteration of dbd. That would be like a design decision for a DBD 2 Electric Boogaloo or DBD: A Realm Reborn

-"3vs4 sounds to mee too many killers but I will definetely try it"

From the sound of things it sounds like DBD where you want to hook people so you can feed blood to Grandpa. Survivors will be hiding from the family and they can slip through narrow passages that most family members cannot follow through.

-"Instead just making gens slower they could add secondary objective which each unhooked survivors would have to do amd before that they could be just incapable of doing gens or have massive gen fix speed penalty."

You mean like give the killer a 5th perk slot that can only be used for hexes or boon removing? Imagine if they made hexes able to be rekindled on unbroken bones. There would be an instant meta shift with Blood favor. Survivors would be breaking the bones for fear that every pallet would be turned off when the killer attacks. People would stop bringing bones because the survivors would be removing them.

What you suggest then? How we nerf tunneling? We can't just make gens 120s or secondary objective and hope killers don't tunnel. Those who do so now certainly will and have even more time to do so. Basekit ds would solve the problem.

Short of turning survivors invisible for a period of time enough to ensure they can escape after being unhooked you can't really do anything to "nerf" tunneling.

The best way to adjust it would be to change how players interact with each other. You can lessen the effectiveness of it if say there is a respawn system introduced and we shift the game from a static hook sacrifice system. That would help, but even that wouldn't end tunneling

cough cough different mmr reserved to steamers (or to be precise fog whisperers) cough cough... those experiment are simply trash: it's sufficient to look at the survivors that he was facing to understand that something is wrong...

At the end, the outcome of a game is almost always in the hands of the survs. The more hours you have, the more you'll realize.

And bad - average, not as efficient survs like me are the only reason we have still killers left, wanting to play. The only good thing about MMR is, that queue times are still prioritized. Players would be shocked on both sides, when MMR would work at all times.

How is basekit DS a problem? It was the most well-tailored perk. The only thing that could improve on it is removing collision with the killer while it's active.

Doesn't have to be just BHVR though. They do sometimes take suggestions from forums. They took a pretty ambitious one of mine, so we can all just brainstorm together about possible solutions.

So they can bodyblock for their teammates without any fear?

Hell even if you work out all the issues this would bring up i would still hate it.

Being immune to everything when you are unhooked just removes all the tension, it's boring as hell. I'll take being tunneled out then. Atleast you get to have a chase then

And what if 2 survivors are unhooked at the same time? Do both become immune? Niether? Does the game crash?

Things are always easy if you look at it from the outside

If there's one thing we don't need back, it's the meta of everyone running DS and then baiting killers into attacking them just so they can use the stun. Every single new tool you give survivors is immediately abused in the most annoying ways possible.

The problem with "fixing tunneling" is that sometimes the killer doesn't have another choice, because they either just can't find another survivor or the "tunneled" is actively seeking the killer's attention. What should they do, just ignore the guy who keeps getting in their face with a flashlight no matter what? I will never accept any "solution" that punishes innocent players. If someone is unhooked and they immediately get in my way while their teammate flees in the other direction, I do not deserve punishment for downing the unhooked again for their stupid play. I had a killer game a few days ago where a Kate kept unhooking teammates then using Sprint Burst to run away, leaving the unhooked with me as the closest and most convenient target. Am I supposed to be punished for that Kate's bad playing? Was I supposed to follow the imaginary Survivor Rulebook and do the obviously bad move of chasing someone who was already halfway across the map?

Tunneling is a valid aspect of this game and doesn't need to be "fixed". Disincentivized, sure, but not eliminated, because there are times where it is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Could that perhaps be because BT only works for 10 seconds and DS used to work for 60 seconds so now killers can just wait out the 10 second endurance to get a free down now that DS is garbage?

Just the other day I got a 4K against a 2-man SWF and solos that accused me of tunneling, and they were as you say one that asked to be tunneled... He was really good at looping, the remaining survivors didn't bother doing generators, just hid... so it was just me chasing him and him clicking his flashlight at me... Then he accuses me of tunneling him, calls me trash, etc...

It was never confirmed, and it wasn't a different mmr, it was supposedly them not being matched with players that had high reports of cheating. I can tell you right now, most, if not all of them would be pissed if they were getting easier matches. Hell, ohtofu says that constantly and is partially why he's burnt out. And if that were the case, why is otz struggling to get a dredge streak going?

I've also said this before and I'll say it again, you can't judge either side's players just by watching a stream - we all have games where we are not on top of things or make stupid decisions. It doesn't mean they are bad quality survivors or killers they just had a bad match.

Mmr just barely functions because it is too lenient. It has the slight edge above ranks, but I wouldn't say it's perfect by any means, because at least this is somewhat consistent. I don't want seperate queues, but what I'd like to see is at least have an option of being strict on mmr because I want these sweaty seal team 6 squads constantly like people on here love to chatter about. I shouldn't have to consider scrimming and joining a baby comp team to even get challenged in this game. Queue times are good and all but I just feel like ######### most of the time because I am constantly going against survivors that don't even have a chance the moment they load into my lobby. From my own experience I get the same quality of matches on par with <insert streamer here>. And I spend a lot of time in this game playing killer, maybe 80 hours+ every few weeks, and win most of my matches. And yet, I'm here, thinking, why the hell am I getting survivors that have significantly less hours than me constantly in my lobby.

What do people think would happen if basekit DS was added? I thought people complained enough about slugging, let's add a reason to do it to everyone. Let me guess, then add basekit Unbreakable so that the slugging doesn't work anymore? Then what?

Speaking for myself, with old DS I'd be more likely to put an unhooked surv down again because I assumed they'd have DS, and I'd want to eat it to take it off the board so they couldn't use it late/end game. Of course BHVR disabled it in the end game which would have greatly reduced that approach (in theory), but unfortunately they also nerfed the stun duration to the point where it became generally worthless.

I say keep it disabled in the endgame (and of course have it deactivate on a conspicuous action), but make the stun duration longer than before, like 7 seconds, and maybe even add in a haste boost. I think that would be the best approach using a perk to dissuade tunneling.

Of course the worst thing about old DS was how it was used offensively, so you'd have to be very careful of not tuning it back to the point where that becomes a thing again. Like basekit BT, using it for anything but getting away from the killer isn't the intent, and killers should be able to punish survs for using them to bodyblock or otherwise interfere with pursuing other survs.

for me it's the inverse situation: i've come to a point where i ALWAYS have smurf accounts, people with 3 times my playtime or people who have vac bans/game bans registered... at this point i'm starting to think that i'm going aganist cheaters all the time because there are too many things in my matches that don't seems right (for example 3 gen pop while i'm chasing someone despite i've deadlock active, people that seems/ARE faster to run after turning a corner that have no LoS, people that won't miss a SINGLE dead hard, etc etc)... at this point no one can be sure about the MMR system, but i'm sure of 1 thing: it's PURE gargbage and it's making my matches unplayable (and the few ones that aren't suspitious aren't funny either because you get potatoes, making chases boring for how much easy those will be, or complete SWF that will require the same unfunny gameplay in order to keep up the pace with their efficiency)

I've tunneled the whole team at the same time if you have to believe some survivora i've faced. While simultaneously camping them.

That aside it isn't about what you do in game it's how you program it. If you program that the last survivor that gets unhooked gets immune you need to account for what happens if both are unhooked at the same time. Cause that is possible, no matter how unlikely.

There is a lot of nuance to programming a game. If you think you found a easy solution it's cause you haven't thought it trough