Should shattered hope be basekit?
Granted this mostly applied to prior to the most recent patch with CoH changing, but should shattered hope be base kit? It has felt like a waste of time to snuff out a boon when the survivors will just put it right back after you walk away. Do you think shattered hope (essentially destroying the totem) should be base kit for killers or no? Should anything be done to limit the number of uses for a boon such as a token system?
Genuinely curious what people think
EDIT: I did not tralize shattered hope had so much packed into it. I would like to have it so the killer could destroy totems but the other effects not be basekit
Comments
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If it does, Id prefer to have the choice to either snuff or break the totem
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For me, I think shattered hope ought to be base kit. If survivors can destroy a hex I think a killer ought to be able to destroy a boon. Yes, hexes are more powerful overall but you get no control on where it spawns and you only get it once while survivors get unlimited uses of a boon and can place them anywhere.
I think we will still need to see how boons go after this patch, but killers do seem pretty powerless in addressing them other than snuff out which is a waste if time most of the time
Post edited by IWasLrft2Die on2 -
I think I know where you are going with this, but why would you want a choice? Is there any reason to not always destroy it?
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Nope.
It's only even potentially in the running for discussion because of CoH. If that perk didn't exist, it'd be more clear why that's not a good idea- boons are designed around being in the middle of the action, for the most part, so the killer always has the option to snuff it - and the survivor always has the risk of it being snuffed. Shadow Step and Dark Theory are straight up useless outside of chase (more or less, the aura hide is somewhat useful outside of chase), and Exponential wants to at least be near the action so you don't waste a ton of time crawling to its range, so if those totems broke on snuff it would severely harm them in terms of strength and in terms of the back-and-forth slowdown of it being reset multiple times.
CoH broke that concept by being both worlds stronger than the other three, and shining most when it's set up away from the action, making going out of your way to snuff it not worth the time investment the way it would be were the totem right where you were already chasing someone.
Frankly, I don't know that Shattered Hope should exist period, even as a perk. It's a pretty hefty sledgehammer to take to the boon mechanic, and it's useless if there aren't any boons in play.
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sure, but make boons mapwide, same noise level as hexes and the killer has to spend 14 seconds to break it.
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Yeah I feel torn on this. I'd be all for buffing the other boons if there was counterplay to them other than the perk slot for killer. How would you feel if there was a buff to each boon to be about where CoH is now? Would that be fine to have a limit on number of boons you can create (either a token system or killer can destroy).
I don't really see killers using shattered hope at all honestly since it is so situational (and it's not even that good honestly since they can just make a boon somewhere else)
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Yes please, there should be a choice for killer to either snuff or remove the Boon. The perk should make Blesser 1min of Expose after the removal.
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I'm not really in favour of that- I like the idea that boons drag survivors off generators because they want to reset their totems, I think that's a good idea that should be bolstered. Having totems break on snuff, even if the perks were all strong enough (and realistically, completely redesigned to work away from the action, which would be required), would remove that aspect from ever really shining the way it could.
With CoH severely nerfed, there's a chance we might get that concept to work a lot better than it would've when that perk first came out. I would much rather see that given an honest attempt.
As for Shattered Hope itself... eh. It's a nice supporting perk for Pentimento, at least.
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This just isn't a realistic comparison. Mapwide 5 second heals is certainly better than 95% of hexes.
Post edited by IWasLrft2Die on4 -
Yes it should be sort of. By default, Killers should be able to do a fast snuff or a 2-3 second break. Then Shattered Hope makes either practically instant and a bit more on top.
As it currently stands there's not enough base kit counter play around boons. Which means either they are beyond broken or worthless with no possibility of being in between.
Once permanent breaking is in place, we can go through and buff most of the boons. I have ideas for all of them too if you'd like to see.
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Shattered Hope is weird in that it is too situational to be a perk worth bringing, but it's too strong to be base kit.
I think the perk itself should be buffed to make it worth bringing even if it turns out there is no or few boons in the game, like making it be able to break dull totems to see the aura of another totem placement (making it a killer version of Counterforce) + bloodpoint score event for breaking dull totems, in Deviousness as you are outsmarting survivors by depleting their resources.
That way, it hard counters boons because anytime you go by a dull totem you can remove it as a possible boon location.
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I could see this being a good solution at least worth trying out
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No
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CoH isn't that great when it's 'away from the action', because the further you have to travel to get into its range, the less time you save on it.
CoH was powerful because its own 50% heal speed boost applied to the self-heal, saving a comparatively larger amount of time, but that's gone now.
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Shattered Hope + Pentimento, let's gooooooooo
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I'll admit I didn't think of that hahaha !
I mean, I stand by it, but maybe with an added "Pentimento clause" XD
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Lol also fair.
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To be honest, that wasn't a criticism. Pentimento could use an activating perk that's not on a licensed killer.
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If they increase the amount of dull totem spawns, then absolutely
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one of the coolest suggestions I saw which would not invalidate he perk as well, was that if the killer snuffs a boon that was placed over a Hex, the Hex comes back to it, so it would be rewarding for the killer while also putting more weight on the survivor's decision between booning or breaking the totem.
This wouldn't make much difference when the killer uses no Hex in the build tho, so I think it would be fair if either there was a cooldown for placing a boon after it gets snuffed (something around 90 seconds, who knows) to make the survivors plan the usage of the perks more strategically then just rebooning the same spot again and again, or maybe give a limited ammount of times that a totem can be booned so it is more rewarding for the killer to snuff it multiple times.
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That could be a good option as well (and the killer is given the ability to smash dull totems)
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That probaly would of been the best nerf to boons, now im not so sure if they should add it.
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With how weak boons are now, absolutely not.
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Oh I did not realize how much was packed into shattered hope. I genuinely thought it only destroyed totem that had a boon.
Anyways, that's more of what I'd suggest at least. Killers being capable of destroying totems. No need for the other bits
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exactly like that
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The only change I'd do to boons would be that if a survivor's boon is snuffed out, either have the entity block the totem for 30 seconds or prevent the survivor from blessing a totem for 30 seconds when their totem is reverted.
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Boons are too weak, and it would only buff Pentimento—which is already a solid (A-tier) perk. So no. SH should not become basekit.
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No but it should have some use aside from just boon countering. Maybe the ability to turn a dull totem into a hex.
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Yes, it should have been basekit since the introduction of boons. It still should be basekit, but BHVR doesn’t think killers need anything good basekit and wants them to have to use perks and addons to even get to a break-even point.
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plaything and noed be like 💀
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This! Why not THIS? Give the killer a choice.
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Another perk (scourge hook?) allowing you to deal with boons on the full map would be more appreciable.
Post edited by BarnesFlam on0 -
If they do then they need to give you the option of snuffing or breaking.
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No, survivors blessing totems over and over again can actually be good for the killer. I've played survivor in matches where my team could have gotten gens done and escaped, but we ended up all dying because they were too busy focusing on getting their boons back up.
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Before this change I would (and did) argue that it should be. That CoH was too impactful and boons should be destroyable, with the other boon perks being buffed to compensate.
However this is an adequate alternative. CoH is no longer too oppressive when used by a highly coordinated SWF, they still have to find each other and heal up in pairs, they just save some time in doing so. CoH is now more in-line with the utility of other boon perks.
So no, finally, Shattered Hope does not need to be basekit.
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If people want hexes and boons to be the same so bad, how about letting Shattered Hope ignite already shattered hexes onto dull totems? (probably at the cost of a token or two from the hex, otherwise Devour Hope would break things)
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There are times where Survivors simply cannot get value from that specific Boon thanks to its position
If a Boon is in the dead center of the current play zone, I'm more than likely going to snuff it since they don't need to go out of their way to use it.
If the Boon is far away from the current play zone then there's no point in snuffing it.
With Circle of Healing they would waste LOTS of time simply running to the Boon, then heal, then back.
With the other 3, they NEED to be in the play zone to get any value.
So the reason why I'd want a choice, is so that I can destroy the play zone Boon, and then only snuff (if needed) the rest
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I still don’t understand why people want this change. If this were happen, then some of those terrible boon perks will be even worse. COH got nerfed and is in a good spot, let’s not nerf it further.
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It's maybe not necessary now that there isn't really any op boons, but imo I think this on top of buffing boons (at least the 3 worst ones) would be the way to go. Even when it's something meh like shadow step or exponential, it's still just kinda annoying that snuffing boons feels somewhat worthless very often, since it can just be relit again. I think boons would just be more fun in general if they were like actually crazy strong but also more risky. Like if shadow step suppressed more than just scratch marks and auras or if exponential brought you back to healthy after recovering or if dark theory gave way more haste. I just think stuff like that would be really fun but also (maybe) balanced if SH was basekit
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Yeah I could agree with that. I'd love for boons to be better (most hexes too honestly) but there should be a penalty or some sort of meaningful counter to boons other than snuffing it out which does feel pointless. I Luke the idea of boons though. They need some love
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Yeah I'd like hexes to get some love too. Feels like they're so safe with some of them when they shouldn't be since..they're hexes. I also find it kind of weird that we have so many non traditional hexes that have kinda taken the spotlight from normal ones. Like hexes that protect others such as undying, retribution, haunted ground and thrill, and also just some weird ones like noed plaything and face the darkness. I'd like to see ordinary hexes like third seal crowd control huntress lullaby and whatnot be more preferable to those weird or protective ones compared to how much they are currently
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Yeah i agree with that. It would be nice if the lesser strong hexes could still be worthwhile options
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