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SWF nerfs

daffyd
daffyd Member Posts: 138

When was the last nerf to SWFs to bring them more in-line with solo survivors?

Someone told me they have never been nerfed and never will be nerfed as BHVR fear them?

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Comments

  • daffyd
    daffyd Member Posts: 138

    Why then have BHVR introduced circle of healing for free heals in a known location and then nerfed it whilst SWFs on comms still get this for free?

    Why don't the buff to survivors with who is doing what not include distance numbers of how far each one is from the hooked survivor?

    Why then if solo survivors are being buffed (and killers not buffed to match) are SWFs never going to be touched?

    Could it be that players in a SWF, killer and others don't like their role to be nerfed for actual balance?

  • daffyd
    daffyd Member Posts: 138

    If I play in a solo lobby how is nerfing a SWF or a SWF with comms going to affect me?

  • KingFieldShipper
    KingFieldShipper Member Posts: 612

    Perk nerfs arent swf nerfs and if a perk works better in a swf than solo, that's bad perk design

    We literally just got a solo qol of life with the hud. It doesn't bridge the gap completely, so I wouldn't say solo survivor hasn't been touched.

    To be honest with you some killers love to blame their losses on things other than themselves and swf is the big target. Swfs are essentially meaningless.

  • xPrinceHarlequinx
    xPrinceHarlequinx Member Posts: 180

    Well, first give me a couple examples of what you would nerf about swfs and I'll let you know.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,604

    They want kill rates around 60%. Solo would make up the bulk of the kill rates, so nerfing swf to solo level would increase kill rates. They don't need to nerf swfs while they have solo to supply kills.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,856

    Their intent seems to be to raise solo play as close to SWF as possible, not the other way around. The hud changes is the best example of that, something that absolutely helps out solos but didn't have a massive effect on SWF play.

  • Wilx
    Wilx Member Posts: 99

    How do you nerf SWF but not solo? If there is a way to do that it'd be great. The medkit and heal nerf didn't really bother SWF, but really hurt solo, so hopefully for the sake of solo, they don't do anything more to hurt them.

    It did suprise me that when the last chapter came out, the survivor perks were focused on teams, as if the Devs were purposely building the game around SWF.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,797

    I think what OP is talking about is the idea that a SWF would get a hard penalty just by being in a SWF, like slower gen repair, and isn't talking about perks.

    There's a couple of answers to that, but the one that usually gets made is that is that if you put a penalty on playing in a SWF, there are ways for people to still play together without using the built in feature, and people would just do that.

  • Xxjwaynexx
    Xxjwaynexx Member Posts: 329

    Am I the only one who thinks swfs are necessary at this point. Some of my most fun and sweatiest matches were from swf. Swf brings a completely new element to the game. Yeah having infinite info all the time wasn't how the game was designed but it's here and there's no way of stopping it. The only way to bring solo q up to swf level is vc and we all know we don't want built in VC for every match every person so Dwight can yell about how you suck because he was hiding in a locker and you didn't complete 5 gens.

    That being said swfs are the highest level of gameplay for survivors, and killers alike. Is it hell going up against a really awesome swf of course, but it pays off as far as learning goes, you can't just run around downing whoever and camping whoever, you have to have actual game awareness and strategize. As many have already stated there can't be a nerf to swf without indirectly in some way hurting solo q. As far as solo q being buffed maybe an emote wheel of pre set phrases to let your teammates know what the plans are, so you cant just talk ######### to Claude for hiding in a bush although she may desrve it.

    Dont know if any of this makes sense but just inputting my 2, hope everyone has an awesome day!

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,219

    I would like there to be seperate queues for swf and solo, with different balancing.

    Killers can choose if they only play one or both, but due to the different balance, the outcome would be close together.

    IF still not too much people want to play killer vs swf, just do a swf contingent, so that after x games in an swf, a player has to win y matches as killer vs swf. Win because a) they cant just go afk but have to play, and b) they might get a different oppinion about the balance in the game.

    None of this will ever come, and thats why dbd might get better, but most likly will never be balanced.

  • CorvusCorax86
    CorvusCorax86 Member Posts: 1,072

    How do you nerf communication via all kinds of software available on Windows?

  • maximo99ac
    maximo99ac Member Posts: 164

    not possible solo is never going to be close to the level of swf

  • KingFieldShipper
    KingFieldShipper Member Posts: 612

    This game WOULD be dead if swf hadn't been in the game at this point already. So if "healthier" means dead, and it's balanced because it's dead, sure.

    Hard disagree. The HUD was a good start. Bond + kindred needs to be basekit and a communication wheel and then you get the majority of information a swf has. It doesn't need to be a 1:1 equivalence.

  • Freddy96
    Freddy96 Member Posts: 767

    How do you make swf in line with soloq? You brainwash your swf teammates to make them as dumb as the avg soloq survivor

  • I_CAME
    I_CAME Member Posts: 1,292

    It's impossible to nerf SWF to be as bad as solo. SWF main advantage is you can bring a team without any bad players. That means high gen efficiency, no easy tunnels, everyone using strong perks, no one throwing for archive challenges.

  • IWasLeft2Die
    IWasLeft2Die Member Posts: 2,405
    edited May 2023

    I'd say the biggest strength of SWF is knowledge. It negates several killwr perks and it nerfs most killer perks since they have shared knowledge of killer perks, killer items, and killer perks

    Post edited by IWasLeft2Die on
  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,083
    edited May 2023

    I can’t think of a single game out there that doesn’t allow players to play with friends. And even if DBD tried doing that, Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo do allow friends to queue up together & DBD cannot circumvent this. They tried it with the anonymous mode and got into trouble with those companies b/c DBD settings cannot overwrite console settings.

  • NerfedFreddy
    NerfedFreddy Member Posts: 394

    They only know how to nerf soloq without affecting swf too much and coh is great example of it

  • IWasLeft2Die
    IWasLeft2Die Member Posts: 2,405
    edited May 2023

    The only issue is that the game isn't designed around having open communication (perks not designed for this nor is their an in game chat functuon). There aren't any other big 1vsmany games out there so it is tough to compare but comparing something like cod, overwatch, etc with even teams is not the same. DBD would need to change a lot of fundamentals of the game to make communication fair but that won't happen. Effects like blindess serve no use in swf among other issues

  • Slaphappyhobbit
    Slaphappyhobbit Member Posts: 47

    This right here hits the nail on the head. If SWF is going to exist, the game has to be balanced around it rather than solo queue, or killers need the ability to opt out of playing against SWF groups (which I don't even know is something that's possible to do.) The game was NEVER meant to have communication like voice chat in it, the devs literally said as much over and over again when the game came out, but they realized how much they could make and how many players would stick around longer with SWF as an option and just....never adjusted anything on the killers side to balance for it.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333

    That wouldn't make the game that much healthier considering that is how the game originally launched.

    It did not launch with the ability to play with friends, that was added later when people kept asking for it. The game is only somewhat more "balanced", but from previous experience the biggest issues back when we didn't have SWF were issues related to players generally not feeling like playing as a team was necessary. Solo Q issues won't be solved by making the game go back to perpetual solo q as that implies that the game is balanced around SWF which it isn't, at least not in anyway that soloq doesn't benefit from.

    From the killer perspective it would feel more balanced for a while until everyone just relearned/learned to use the old methods of communication that exist in the game. DBD players at one time were actually developing the necessary communication skills to functionally coordinate, but I think that has mostly died out now. Yet, if people got back into doing that, after a while people who can coordinate will still be just as strong as before. So in the long run it wouldn't help killers more than say substantive QoL improvements made to killers who aren't good.

  • IWasLeft2Die
    IWasLeft2Die Member Posts: 2,405

    Yeah I remember old DBD and I think there qere definitely Means to communicate (such as pointing etc) but the commutation then still doesn't compare to say "hey the killer is right by me, has Pentimento and sloppy butcher just so you all know". It just isn't the same. The fact is that survivors can gain far more info now and even gain info faster than you could previously. It renders several perks useless and many others much less useful

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,126
    edited May 2023

    The existence of swf makes it hard to balance DBD as a whole because the idea of bringing solo closer to swf and buffing Killers accordingly is honestly a pipe dream.

    1)Any buff to solo queue will directly or indirectly buff swf most of the time.

    2)However nerfs to solo queue may not affect swf as much (Imagine if devs removed the new Survivor Ui).

    3) Swf specifically can’t be nerfed because play with friends.

    4) Any nerf to Survivor on the whole targets both swf and solo queue.

    Rather than two sides, DBD’s balance is more like a triangle made up of Swf, Killers and Solo Queue.

  • maximo99ac
    maximo99ac Member Posts: 164

    men dont talk from your ass console has anonymous mode and playstation or the other ones doesnt allow you to play with friends that depends from the game itself

  • averagemikaelamain
    averagemikaelamain Member Posts: 286

    Nobody said SWF was ever getting a nerf. It's unfeasible to nerf SWF. The only feasible solution is to keep massivelly buffing Solo Queue until you achieve almost parity and can buff Killers to compensate

  • daffyd
    daffyd Member Posts: 138

    Just to confirm NOBODY was able to answer the original post question and instead talk about why SWFs should never be touched...

    Q1. When was the last nerf to SWFs to bring them more in-line with solo survivors? Someone told me they have never been nerfed and never will be nerfed as BHVR fear them?

    The number of comments generated yet nobody giving a simple answer is very concerning where lack of logic and emotions appear to be shown

  • daffyd
    daffyd Member Posts: 138

    I note that no developer has commented as this should be a very easy question to answer.

    SWFs when using communications causes all sorts of imbalance to the game and as such BHVR have acknowledged this by trying to buff solo survivors (and by doing so almost always also buffing SWF survivors).

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,513

    OoO change was a swf nerf because the perk was way too effective when someone could coordinate the info.

    But ultimately it's hard to strictly nerf swf. Swf power comes from the ability to pick their teammates and the ability to communicate information not normally available in the game. Neither of which are things you can nerf within the game.

  • Hex_iButt
    Hex_iButt Member Posts: 233

    Well, the answer just isn't all that simple. Firstly, its hard to really make balance changes around SWF knowing that each group is going to be different as far as their mentality goes to why they are playing together, ranging between memes and goofing off to being a comp sweat squad. Then there's the obvious "3rd party communication platform of choice" which usually ends up being discord, and there's no way to really prevent them from being in a call with each other to give each other information. No matter how you look at it, the best solution is to help bridge the gap between solo queue and SWFs (hence the UI update).

    In an attempt to answer your question though as far as when SWF was last nerfed, Knight's release (6.4.0?) when they made it so Killers were immune to flashlights when grabbing survivors from lockers. Yes, it is still technically possible if using a Flashbang or if the Surv slowly exists the locker, but Flashbangs must be earned by doing gens (more set-up involved for limited usage), and the slow exit is in a sense less reliable (waiting for them to fully exit to M1) vs when you were locked into an animation and had to eat the beam.

  • tyantlmumagjiaonuha
    tyantlmumagjiaonuha Member Posts: 573

    All M1Killer down to almost pinhead level. In order to do 10-12 cycles of starting a chase, some of the auxiliary abilities that can be used to prepare the chase at the beginning require a certain amount of high-speed movement, remote interference, and tasks other than gen fix to Survivors. All of them are lower layers except for the killer who is in the middle.

  • daffyd
    daffyd Member Posts: 138

    Easy answer, yes they need to balance the game... aka 'balance swfs' to solo level or vice versa.

    The answer is obvious, SWFs play a big proportion of the player base which is why BHVR hides them end game when there is no reason to. Balance can be achieved with those kill rates.

  • daffyd
    daffyd Member Posts: 138

    How I love to see that meme of 'for having friends' #nerfPig

  • HugTechLover
    HugTechLover Member Posts: 2,482

    Nerfing people for playing with friends is a bad look.

  • lifeisstrange
    lifeisstrange Member Posts: 300

    Yay another one of these pointless impossible nerf swf topic, hmm what number is this one?

  • Blinckx
    Blinckx Member Posts: 426

    They said they were happy with 60% kill rates months ago, but right now, even if many people ask for stats and number they refuse to show anything..do you wonder why ? Yeah that's right because the real kill rate is way below 60%

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,248

    They cant nerf "swf" without touching "solo" because both are "survivor". The only difference between solo and swf is the swf lobby before the real killer-survivor lobby. Theres nothing in a trial different for solo or swf, aside survivor strategy/gameplan/team mentality or lack thereof.

    Nerfing swf to get on par with solo is a funny thought though, seeing survivors react to survivors being balanced around " nerf top killer" logic would be a delight.