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lets discuss survivors taking responsiblity when they are being tunneled
if you get tunneled then make it not worth the killers time to chase you...simple as that.
first of all are you running windows of opportunity/off the record/an exhaustion perk or unbreakable/decisive strike? good
can you hold w and run to an undesirable structure for the killer to run after you? (killer shack/building/jungle gym) good and if you cant then predrop the pallet and run to the next structure when the killer is breaking the pallet
very easy to eat up the killers time without needing any skill to loop...if you can loop it is even easier and you can mind game the pallet...windows helps with that.
are you being tunneled off the hook? use your base kit borrowed to make distance to a safe loop like described...if you are downed then decisive strike on the pick up and run to a safe loop.
if you are not using these steps and using the above perks then take responsibility on yourself for hurting your teammates...works on all killers in the game for the most part except for nurse and maybe blight
this isnt even counting bodyblocking and sabotages and blinding saves
what are the communities thoughts? do you run the above perks? do you get annoyed at teammates who cant seem to run and at least make distance if nothing else?
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this is just...idk.
Call me a Survivor main, but this is just completely nonsensical in an actual game and seems like it was written by someone who hasn't spent enough time in Solo Q.
"Tunneling is your fault as a Survivor"
It's easy to loop effectively? Yeah, maybe against Killers who are worse than you. Against Killers that are your skill or better? It's extremely difficult.
There aren't generally many safe loops in maps, plus, many Killer powers make it easier for them to tunnel. DS is a joke, you're better off running something else.
Completely ridiculous post.
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I guess this is related but if you unhook someone please don’t immediately hide all you are doing is making the killer tunnel
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I’ve died so many times from this
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well that was a bunch of nothing
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"Just commit your entire build so that you can last longer in a tunnel"
Might as well remove the other 95% of perks then, if we always have to be prepared for when we get tunnelled.
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It’s important to see both sides. Try playing Killer to understand the tools they have available to tunnel.
This comes across as a survivor main under the assumption that their teammates are always at fault.
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So what do we do against the killers that chase us for 3 gens then tunnel us through the final ones because they committed too much time to us at the start? Because if argue that involves making yourself not worth chasing, yet they do it anyway, then tunnel, then facecamp, then get a 2k minimum anyway because solo queue teammates have the collective brain cells of a goldfish.
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Honestly, the only time I don't find tunnelling scummy is if the survivor either deliberately gets in your way, or they're the only survivor you keep finding and it's either chase them or wander around even more and waste time
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You can't know if you're getting tunneled until you're actually in the match, plus killers will tend to go for survivors that already aren't strong in chase, or they suspect don't have any anti tunnel perks.
I get your point, but tunneling is miserable to deal with in solo survivor games.
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I had a game today where I thought a team mate was getting tunnelled, but they were so good in chase it was honestly detrimental for the killer to go for them. One game later, I got matched with that same survivor again and I watched them and realised they were purposely tracking the killer down and pretty much carrying the team with their chase skills. I unhooked them on their first hook and they let me heal them, then they ran off and seconds later had the little chase claws around their icon 🤣
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I'd understand saying "if you're tunneled don't give up and just run towards the nearest loop, hope for the best and try to gain time", but saying survivors should run an entire anti-tunneling build (including DS lol) and that it's their fault if the killer catches them when they literally have 0 distance on them if the killer waits out basekit BT, not to mention they were downed here so it's very possible it's an unsafe area or pallets around here have been used already, is just silly.
Obviously if countering tunneling was that easy it wouldn't be effective and it wouldn't be so popular.
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kind of like how some killers can only run 1 type of build for slowdown?
i mean you can run other perks but if you do then get tunneled whose fault is it?
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all i do is play solo queue as survivor lately and trust me you want to keep the killer occupied...you can't depend on teammates knowing how to loop or run these perks. it falls on yourself and hoping teammates are doing gens while the killer is occupied with you
it is based on the killer obviously but how does it hurt to be prepared? i see so many threads where people whine about getting tunneled and camped and it is always the killers fault when the perks are right there to use to prolong the game. ds is still useful to run to another safe loop it isnt as useless as people claim.
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i play enough solo queue to see that really bad teammates who go down at the first loop
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out of curiosity what perks was your teammate running?
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by that time hopefully your teammates did enough to be able to escape...i am not saying it will stop the tunneling but it makes most killers second guess if going after you for just a 1k is worth it in the long run
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You're talking about not having multiple different avenues of a specific build.
I'm talking about only ever being able to bring one build.
You can still bring chase perks, info perks, stealth perks, TR perks, baggage perks, etc.
But survivors are supposed to just always bring an anti-tunnel build. Because otherwise 'it's their own fault!'.
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Well it would work if the unhooked survivor was automatically healed and if the other survivors have gen rush perks equipped.
For now tunneling is a win/win strategy for the killer if the survivors are not full META perks users.
The current state of the game is terrible, DbD won't survive much longer as 90% of the trials are not fun at all, for both sides.
SBMM started to kill the game, now the recent perk changes is finishing it.
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I agree partially.
Not really that you have to dedicate your entire build on anti-tunnel. Especially when most anti tunnel perks aren't that amazing but how effective tunneling is is partially in the survivors hand.
Most maps have atleast one strong structure that is easy to run and will waste a lot of the killers time and that is just something you need to learn to play the game well.
These kinda cheap tactics exist in other games too.
In rts games there often is a zerg rush tactic that will beat you again and again untill you learn to scout and pay attention to what your opponent is doing.
In fighting games if you don't learn how to block effectivilly decent players will rush you down every single time and it will be a very simular "no chance to breathe" feeling tunneling has.
That said i do think tunneling needs to be looked at. It's way to effective compared to spreading hooks which offer no benefit whatsoever.
It is a problem, just imo a bit of a overblown problem that most people use as a excuse
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I see your point but really you cannot account for poor decisions in a game. If your solo teammates are genuinely that dense this is hardly the killer's fault. Dumb decisions should lead to you losing a match. That's how DBD works. For killer and survivor (at least most of the time).
Obviously, I'm not saying, that a killer who tunneled you for 3 gens should be rewarded (although a 3 gen chase can be 60 seconds, which really isn't that long). I think tunneling needs to be addressed in two ways at once. Incentivicing hook spreading and disencentivising tunneling will both be necessary to deal with this issue.
In more than 2000 hours in this game I've had enough matches where I technically tunneled one survivor because I couldn't find anyone else for the life of me. There have also been matches where 1 survivor would always run up to me and beg to get chased. I know, I could always decide to not 'tunnel' there and throw the game, but really that shouldn't be the way it is.
There are 2 ways tunneling can be motivated. First, the killer decides they need to kill 1 survivor asap. Second, one survivor makes themself a target and the killer downs whoever they find. In order to fix both of these without completely breaking the game, there needs to be a balance between carrot and stick.
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My point is that OP's point is moot. I can make myself an impossible target, like OP suggested, and still be tunneled because I was too hard to chase and the killer decided that they wasted too much time. I have no way to make them not make this decision, because it was their mistake to focus me for so long, and I am punished for their mistake just because I played well.
You can make yourself an impossible target but it doesn't matter, because unless your teammates actually do generators you will make a mistake in looping eventually, and then that one mistake will guarantee a death because the killer made substantially more than me and now wants to take it out on me (complete with kebabing on hook, nodding, etc.)
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As I said, I'm not defending that. That shouldn't be part of the game. At least not in its current state. And I'll concede, you cannot make yourself an impossible target. The best thing you can do is to not get found after you had been hooked once, so the killer will have to chase someone else.
If I, as a killer, deemed it necessary to tunnel a survivor, no amount of bodyblocks, pallets and windows will help you. Damn, even if DS was 10 seconds I'd still tunnel your butt. Mostly because all of these anti-tunneling mechanics force the killer to commit even more once they encounter them. The only way around it is to not tunnel and we saw what happened with survivors that were not tunneled pre 6.1.0 when the anti-tunneling wall of perks was still untouched.
The only way to make it completely impossible to tunnel a survivor is to make them invisible and unhittable. The ways this could be abused though are what really scares me. Invisible survivors with flashlights and pallet saves are not what I would like to see in DBD.
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If the game was changed so 3vs1 wasn't so crippling and survivors had a good chance at winning still, it would at least make something a bit better.
Anyway I agree with what Pulsar said. This post is a bit ridiculous.
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Everything you said is essentially placing onus on the survivor for the killers actions.
No matter how many “anti-tunnel” tools a survivor brings, if a killer is determined to get a specific survivor out of the game… they will.
- DS is a joke these days, hence why little-to-no survivors bother with it anymore. 3 second stun? You even said it yourself, it’s redundant against a few killers.
- A lot of killers now hit through basekit BT as they know endurance doesn’t stack. in doing so they remove the 1 minute endurance survivors get from OTR. Easy.
sure, tunnelling isn’t “against the rules”, but in a lot of cases (not all, there are some exceptions) it’s a really crappy way to play.
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OP's point is not moot. With any anti-tunneling implementation I really do hope they give Survivors the tools, to be able to escape the Killer effectively at least once unless the Killers build is completely focused on player information and tracking over a long duration. Specifically mechanics that the Survivors must use themselves at any given time, not mechanics the game decides should be used now after a given threshold of "unsporting play" has been reached.
However, at the moment, current gameplay cues (Unhook notification, UI portrait change) and Hook mechanics logistics (Hook is in one place, Survivors cannot teleport) more or less limits a Hooked Survivors ability to be unhooked without the Killer having a significant understanding of where they are.
This is then coupled with tunneling a Survivor being heavily incentivized: Least amount of effort to find another Survivor, Survivor is also 1-hit, once a Survivor is down it becomes increasingly difficult to split on gens while also dealing with Unhooks/Chase and being Hooked with only 3 people, and other Survivors (both empathetically and selfishly) may rush to that Survivor to satisfy engagement.
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Because it's not good game design to REQUIRE certain perks in order to be able to play the game for 45 seconds longer.
Likewise, blaming the Survivor for the Killer's choice to tunnel is ludicrous.
Will you be recommending everyone bring Reassurance to stop Killers from camping others, Kinship to stop Killers from camping you, Deli for the first stage and DS?
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It's not nothing. It's victim blaming.
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The only time I tunnel, would be if all gens are done and 4 people are alive. Other than that most survivors will body block using BT instead of running away and then complain of tunneling. I will also give someone the benefit of doubt if i just unhooked you and happen upon you I'll let you go but after the second time i gotta chase you. Lastly if your flashy teabagger begging to be chased I'll give you every single chase that you asked for.
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Where is the fun in using the same perks all the time? I'm getting tired of WoO and pretty much everything else you mentioned. And, to be honest, I love it when seeing these perks on survivors as a killer as I rarely tunnel / camp and I notice half the build was completely useless.
"Can you hold W?" Even new survivors can. Many of you have no idea how skill is built in this game. It's not about holding W it's about map knowledge. Mindgame is non-existent with killer such as Doc who renders your vaulting useless.
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i had one person tell me to bring unbreakable soul guard and no mither to stop slugging💀
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my point is if they dont bring those perks then yeah it kind of is their fault if they get tunneled easily out of the game...i always bring those perks now and made sure to learn how to loop correctly to be an asset to my team when i play
it is how i would blame a killer who doesnt bring bamboozle (for most killers)and gets looped like crazy on harder loops
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Pulsar, I just want to say that your comments are always so spot on. I know you play killer and survivor, and you have to be the most calm headed person in this community. Just want to give you a big thank you.
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tbh i have to agree, there's things bad survivors can do to waste the killers time, and though it's a bad one, wasting pallets is perfect for an unskilled survivor to do, a skilled survivor has the ability to greed them which is wonderful, but if you're not skilled then why bother using skilled techniques
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You can't really assess fault on the survivor being tunneled. You can make arguments for everybody else. The developers for not implementing more anti-tunneling measures (albeit that's hard to do because in any team the most effective move is to remove a member of the opposing team), the other survivors for not bodyblocking enough and getting in the Killer's way (this is a team game) and, if you want, the Killer for being sweaty when it's unnecessary (but that's a pretty debatable point since the Killer is just using the tools the devs have allowed). The survivor being tunneled though? They're the only party here with no agency in this situation.
Tunneling is baked into any PvP game with a team. Even in symmetrical games (eg WoW arenas) the most efficient tactic was to remove an enemy ASAP and that almost guaranteed victory. If you had two teams equal in every way the team that used focus fire would win over the one that didn't.
Of course, that's even less fun for the multiple person role in an asymmetrical game. Personally, I think if a survivor is eliminated the remaining survivors should get a repair speed buff and, prior to that, the Killer should get an effect basekit to Dying Light that slows down gens based on number of hooks on survivors active in the match and deactivates each individual debuff as soon as the hooked survivor dies (so the Killer wants to keep each survivor in the match until it's time to clean up and end the match).
That way, Killers who tunnel someone out early are punished for doing so (with a gen repair buff) and are rewarded for spreading hooks around (with gen slowdown) as long as the hooked survivors are still in the match. If you also make it so the survivors don't get the repair speed buff if the survivor who left the match DCed it might also help discourage DCing.
There's potential for abuse such as suiciding on hook or leaving a teammate to die for the buff but that's discouraged by now being short a person. Being down one person means gen progression generally comes to a crawl if the Killer can keep getting downs (one being healed, one unhooking, one being chased means nobody doing gens in a 3v1) so that should discourage abuse. I think what I mentioned could lead to games with less tunneling and more spreading hooks around (which are the more enjoyable games for most)
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Nah, pretty sure it's still 100% the killer's fault, not the survivors'.
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sure if the survivor decides to be a detriment to the team and not dissuade the killer from chasing them with at least off the record...lets see an easy target to chase and increase my odds or the unhooker who decided to hide?
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I once played against a swf, one of them, a zarina was running off the record and she got unhooked in my face, then I went back and went for the survivor who saved her.
Zarina decided she would try to body block with off the record and I just stood staring at her and her off the record ran out and she tried to run but didn't make it far so I hooked her and killed her and then she sent me some abuse because of her own stupidity
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Leaving on oone side about being tunneled that im agree it should be adressed with a solution taking both sides I dont think surv should have any safe structures and actually find structures more fair for everyone as the TL.
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Skill issue. Feel free to post your gameplay here so we can give you advices on how to loop and waste the killer time.
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