How Would You Feel About an End-Game Killer?
I think it's a neat concept. Although I really have no clue how to make it work. I had the idea when fantasizing about when of my own characters into DbD. I won't go off about that though.
I think if not done right it'd be very frustrating for both killers and survivors. If survivors are left without resources for end-game, they're screwed. That means the killer has to be weak early game and rapidly pick up momentum as gens go flying. But, if the killer doesn't clear out enough stuff then they would still be struggling to get any late game pressure. It would definitely be niche, and probably end up like Twins.
I think it has a lot of potential still. A fresh breath of air for killer design as well, since we don't have anything like this yet.
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originally. Freddy was an end game killer. You can see this in freddy perks. He has Remember me, Blood warden and Fire-up. 2/3 perks happen in the end game and one of the perks reaches the max power-level in the end game.
You can tell how badly that turned out. A lot of people labelled freddy as worst killer in the game at one point. One of funny interaction that freddy had was that when you were in dream world. you performed actions at 50% speed. This did include generators and healing but most importantly. it included exit gates.
Yes. an exit gate took 40 seconds to open when in dream world. Remember me used to be a powerful perk. It increased the gate opening time by 30 seconds. Each stack of remember was 5 seconds and there was max of 6 stacks.
This means that an exit gate took 50 seconds to open in total. Applying 50% penalty with freddy dream world. it would take a total of 100 seconds to open. That is longer then doing generator solo.
The idea was scrapped and freddy received rework.
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I don't know if that would work well. For killers it would mean that majority of the game you are just M1 killer with nothing, which isn't fun or interesting for both sides.
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That is interesting history right there thanks for sharing.
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Sure, let's make a killer concept that is by nature crap until gates are powered and concentrate the already stressful multitasking role of killer into the last 2-3 minutes, can't see how this could go wrong as a full killer concept.
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Would probably make it's power tied to gens. The more that get done the stronger the power gets.
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Well... What about the end-game differentiates itself from normal gameplay, and what facets about it do you want accentuated?
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I think, if you want to have an end-game Killer, they need to lead up to their own end-game.
You kind of have this with Tombstone/Tuft Myers, but it bypasses Hooking/Chasing Survivors almost completely, which makes gameplay even more monotonous (and Survivors aware of how his Kill interaction works can just say screw you to the payoff and hop in a Locker).
You could probably expand upon Oni's Blood harvest into some kind of vampire Killer, wherin they can continually acquire blood for even greater tiers of Power, are able to use part of that collected sanguine ferocity in chase to down Survivors, and Hooking survivors is incentivized by being able to siphon/collect blood from Hooking them in a quantity more than just chasing them (and acting as an incentive to use that collected power in chase even if it detracts from the end-goal), and after reaching an end-goal limit being able to Kill outright.
But in general, finding out a way to mesh standard gameplay into a thematic conclusion that should occur about the same time as End-game collapse that would occur in an even match.
Post edited by AssortedSorting on1 -
Tbf when Freddy initially dropped he was extremely oppressive, which was why he was dialed back with those nerfs. He was probably on par with Spirit.
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maybe for new players. I would say he was on weaker side of the killer cast. I believe his PTB, he started at 16 meter terror radius and I think it took 3 seconds to pull a survivor into dream world. something like that. I believe his changes increased his terror radius to 24 meters and the time it took to bring a survivor into dream world was increased to 5 seconds. that is what I remember. Maybe something else changed but I cannot recall it. Either he did not change that much but increased terror radius removed his ability to see survivors aura in loops when in dream world.
One of biggest weakness was that when he put survivors in dream world, survivor could purposely fail a skill-check to wake up from the dream world. He needs to put survivor into dream world to m1 the survivor. While waking up from dream world was bad, it did award the killer for 10% total regression. 10% regression might not sound like much but 10% regression is comparable to Jolt and Eruption in term of regression perks. In summary survivor are a lot better at regressing generators then killer are. Due to his 24 meter radius, he had magnificent synergy with the perk Monitor&abuse which lower his terror radius to 16 meters. I would describe him as stealth killer with decent generator regression. Strength wise, He was around modern day wraith in term of power-level with add-on. He exceled at hit & run but had little to no power in the chase. He had cute end game but as long as survivor were together, they could easily clap their hands and wake themselves up from dream world in the end game. He was good at securing 4k. He kinda had build-in No Way Out. When he won. he won with 4k. When he lost. he lost with 0k. Big high, Big lows.
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we already got one trapper
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I've thought about this before and think it could work if done in one of three ways.
- The killer has a usable power of decent strength from the beginning of the match, but it gets marginally better for every gen completed. Just as an example, Oni needs slightly less blood and Blood Fury last slightly longer for every gen completed.
- The killer gets a boost once the last gen is completed that is something other than permanently buffing their stats. A great example of this is Dredge who has two addons that both trigger when the last gen is done. One of these automatically starts nightfall and the other breaks all active locks.
- It was already brought up, but a killer who has their own "endgame" unrelated to gens such as Nemesis or perma tier 3 Myers.
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Pig used to be an End-Game killer, as the traps would activate after every generator was completed. As someone pointed out, Freddy used to be too (which i didn't knew).
I think it would be nice for a change, but maybe something like for every gen lost, the killer gets stronger. A killer that gets at his strongest when there is no gen left would lead to situations where survivors just don't do endgame saves and just leave. Maybe the killer could get very strong with 2 gens left, and have some special mechanic for the gates, as the correct play against a strong endgame killer would be to leave as soon as possible.
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Apply Old dying light for a slow gen run.
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Survivors fall asleep at 7 sec while Freddy phase in and out of existence. Awake survivors couldn't see Freddy so all you heard was the lullaby. Sadako has no collision is probably from old Freddy's concept.
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We had end-game killer called NOED and it didn't go well
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He wasn't oppressive people just didn't know how to play against him. The only possibly oppressive thing that the release version of Freddy had going for him was slugging (on release you had to heal someone up from dying and THEN wake them up), but even then Nurse & Billy were still better sluggers back then.
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I may be misremembering but at the start wasn't it you had to wake up the survivor while they were in the Dying State and then heal them? I remember something along those lines with every Freddy equipping Knockout specifically for slugging builds since they essentially had built in Deerstalker.
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Idk. I guess you can run 4 slowdowns and then have the endgame power at the end. Would be fun to play as.
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Yes! You are correct I got it mixed up. Thanks for the correction :)
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Oh I wasn't trying to correct you I just remember at some point they swapped the priority of those due to the slugging. I just couldn't remember which was first because it had been so long. Admittedly you brought back a lot of memories by mentioning it.
I think it's just kind of cool looking back and remembering how things were. Even remembering Freddy being used as a test model for when they were testing Spirit and them showing this live on a weekly dev stream.
In fact here since I brought it up.
There's the full stream and at the second thumbnail is a timestamped video.
I miss those weekly streams - To me it was the best part about the game was the dev interactions.
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Yeah I miss them too :(
Even if nothing was announced during them it was still always fun.
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He was oppressive; he was extremely efficient at slugging and most players used him with that precise strategy. The devs changed his kit because of it. Freddy was never Nurse or Blight good but as I’ve stated he was up there with the likes of (current) Spirit. A-tier. Saying “well people just didn’t know how to counter him!!1!” is unacceptable. He was really good on release and up until his changes.
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I would think a drastic change to the basic mechanics of the end-game. Something to help mid-game, then kicking it up to the max near the end. I can't exactly think of something like that in full right now, and I'm away from my pc a lot at the moment (as u can tell from my week long delayed response).
The one I thought of specifically was some-what like pinhead. Where survivors have to play hot-potato to keep the killer from receiving a significant buff or delay. Suffering penalties for holding the said item for too long. But that is also a flawed concept since you can hold the killers power hostage. Or the reverse where the killer tunnels out somebody holding the said power making the scales tip massively in their favor. Neither are bad ideas in terms of winning, but that isn't engaging for anyone.
It's a very tricky concept to balance well. But if it were pulled off to have crazy end-games then it would be fun I think. It needs to strike a balance to prevent the killer from just winning end-game despite playing horribly, incentivize map patrol during end-game rather than camping, and also give said killer advantages outside of end-game.
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