Games Shouldn't Pass 30 Minutes
Why there isn't a fail state for both sides on this is ridiculous. The game "timing out" at the 2 hour mark is actually insane. Three gens are prominent due to the majority of killer's like Nurse, Merchant, Knight, Blight, Wesker, and Spirit due to either high mobility or a horribly designed power that is built to delay the game. Most modern multiplayer games aren't meant to last longer than 30 minutes unless they specifically design it to be long. If this is the design Dead by Daylight is willing to stick with then it is absolutely horrid.
"Bu-bu-but survivors are supposed to break the three gen!" 🤓
MF no killer in their right mind would willingly break a three gen when they can all clearly see the gen auras on the map and deduce with the average brain power required to breath to understand what gens are closest. And for Merchant in particular, a bloody monkey with all four of their paws in a Chinese finger trap can setup a three gen.
This isn't even a three gen problem either; just a major oversight. Hackers abuse this full force until you DC. And according to the devs, DCs shouldn't be commonplace. Seriously, address it officially. Deja Vu being a band-aid isn't gonna help. Reduce the max trial time to 30 minutes, and add a stalemate once it's up. If it takes longer than that for either side to win then there's something wrong here.
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make it 30 minutes AFTER last gen popped and I'd say that'd do good.
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Wasn´t that already lowered to 1 hour max?
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Even if it was lowered to an hour, it wouldn't even be worth it since we all know why it's that long.
30 minutes is standard. An hour is a complete waste of time. Hell let the killer win, would be better than being held hostage requiring you to either give yourself up to the killer or doin' a DC.
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Defeats the purpose. The last gen being popped guarantees the exit gates will open and do the endgame. At best it resolves the hacker fiasco. At worst it fails to address the long ass games.
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If a match takes that long, then both sides are to blame.
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I'll bite.
Explain in any way, shape, or form, a survivor, whose objective is to COMPLETE generators, is responsible for delaying the game to an absolutely unbearable amount of time outside of it being a hacker. I'll wait here and actually listen to your response. Maybe you can convince me I don't know. But maybe, just maybe, you actually have a valid reasoning to this I'm not seeing.
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Both sides are responsible, because neither side wants to give up. Just like the killer could stop checking the 3 gens after a certain time, the survivors could stop running away, in an attempt to lure the killer away from the 3 gen.
Escaping is the survivors objective, just as killing is the killers objective. When no one wants to give in, then both sides are equally at fault.
If one side wants to play the long, boring game with me, then i just give in and let the other side finish their objective, so i can move on to the next match. Especially during an event. In the time i´d waste in that match, i could make 200k+ bloodpoints in different matches.
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While I'm sure you're refering to 3 gen Skull Merchant, which is a legit although niche case, the way you've phrased your argument doesn't follow.
Explain in any way, shape, or form, a Killer, whose objective is to Kill Survivors, is responsible for delaying the game to an absolutely unbearable amount of time outside of it being a hacker. I'll wait here and actually listen to your response. Maybe you can convince me I don't know. But maybe, just maybe, you actually have a valid reasoning to this I'm not seeing.
Your arguing the survivors objective is to repair gens so not repairing gens isn't in their interest. Well neither is it in the killer's interest to not kill survivors. Neither of these benefit from the game timing out.
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The killer's objective being to kill survivors doesn't excuse the methods they use to get to that point. You can argue both sides having their own interests which equal out, but killer has a far bigger influence on the match in that regard.
With that baseline in place, with both killer/survivor goals set, we can now say that the killer, with the character they decide to choose, the perks they decide to bring, and the strategy they have in place, decides how fast those gens go. Because in order to get more kills, you have to stop gens as much as possible right? That shouldn't be the case. I've never seen a multiplayer game of any sort allow one side to completely deny any progression in pacing.
Payload as a gamemode is popular in any game medium because there's a fail state for both sides. Took to long? They defended good and we can move on. Took the payload to the end of the map? Congrats on pushing through their defenses, let's end early.
Skull merchant is by far the best example of this and shouldn't have ever existed. Simply picking her changes how the game is played because her ideal game state is dropping drones at a three gen. No one is gonna keep flip flopping drones at strategic loops or areas with her because there's no reason to.
What do survivors have? Prove Thyself, which is getting nerfed, and a couple others. They never affect the speed of the game as much as the killer does.
Why is that the case? Why is stretching a game long-term a good thing? In what world, does limiting a game time harm the overall experience? And don't think I don't understand your position here, it's just that I see no world where ending the game early is a bad thing.
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Ending game early is bad thing for sure. Basically you won't get any points and that game is equally wasted time as 30+ min game in my opinion.
So how you get fast game?
Survivors bring gen rushing perks + toolboxes. You can end game under 5 minutes where most killers can't do much about it.
Alternative is a killer tunneling someone from start of the game.
Both require one side starting the game with goal to end it asap, where other side is clearly unprepared for it.
Neither of those scenarios are really enjoyable for other side.
How is that a good thing? It will only make other side to bring strongest things for next game and you create this sweat festival we currently have.
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there used to be a mechanic to end matches early. the mechanic was called the hatch. The way it worked is if 1 survivor died and you were at 1 gen, a hatch would spawn closed. If you used item called "Skeleton key", you could open the hatch and escape. the hatch would stay open for 30 seconds and then close. Keys were weaken and the hatch only spawns when all 5 generators have been powered.
back then, there were no perks to regress generators. 3 generator were considered a joke meme strategy. the only conceivable killer that would 3 gen on serious level was doctor. in fact, people back in the day called it "hostage doctor" because he took the game hostage. He didn't really take the game hostage, people were just terrible at hitting skill-checks but that is besides the point. The reason nobody ever consider 3 gen as relevant was because killer could only regress gens at 400% speed slower then survivor progressing generator. It was so laughable regression that nobody even consider 3 gens as useful or viable. The only way to make survivor regress gens was to make them miss a skill-check because missing skill-check awards 10% regression. So people would meme with doctor by equipping overcharge and unnerving presence in attempt to make survivor miss skill-checks by kicking 3 gens over and over. skull merchant is kinda like old hostage doctor in my opinion. it bullies weaker survivors that have trouble breaking 3 gens with the whole overcharge+eruption+sloppy/cob gameplay but experienced survivors can beat it.
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Hag released before Doctor, and old Ruin was savage.
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hag was also known for that but i think she was more known for hook camping then holding the game hostage.
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Ohh you are arguing because of Skull Merchant.
Well, the devs clearly know what they want. They want to get rid of 3 gens, while also giving us killers that promote 3 genning (Knight, Skull Merchant and now Singularity).
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We already have several killers to hold 3-gen.
I was holding 3-gen two years ago with Legion.
It's not a new thing. Players just get allergic to 3-gen during CoB era, which made it super easy to do.
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Survivors would perform the locker hop hiding game for 60 minutes just to make Killers miserable, if survivors don't do generators then they are the ones holding the game hostage.
If your game lasted 30 minutes because you botched yourself into a three gen and he refused to actively go after it and just started hopping into lockers and hiding until the killer chased someone, you are also responsible for slowing the game down.
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Ok?
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Please tell me how even an experienced team can beat the 3 gen on a map like meat plant with the Oblivious addon
You do the drone, she knows you're there and you won't be able to tell if she's close
You don't, she knows you're there, you won't be able to tell if she's close AND you get exposed
You might just say run off after doing the drone, but then she just goes and puts it back, and hits you if you are nearby. Then your teammates are forced to heal you. Even worse with sloppy
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if you cant break a 3 gen against any non knight/SM killer its a skill/soloq issue.
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learn to yoyo efficiently against m1 type-killers. It is not killer problem that you are not holding-w properly vs killers as they approach generators.
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That's the thing, you can't tell if she is approaching thanks to Oblivious and the many LOS blockers
So please, tell me how are you supposed to "hold W as they approach gens" if you don't know they are approaching the gen?
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disabling drone? if you disable 2 drones, at least 1 gen will have no drone.
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Oh yeah. Only difference is, that the last 3 killers powers all revolve around 3 gens. I mean, those powers are pretty much useless, unless used in a 3 gen.
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That's not true, at least not after their changes.
Both can use their powers quite well on loops.
Merchants effectiveness drops a lot while survivor is injured. I overall consider her very similar to Legion. Power to slowdown the game and get information, easy to injure survivors, low lethality...
Larry has weird playstyle, 3-gen is not it. You give survivors time to farm EMPs, that's not good strategy. Larry is more like hit&run killer.
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But thats how those killers are perceived. I still see survivors dc against the Knight and endgame chat is like "snooze killer".
Even if Skull Merchant gets a full overhaul, there will still be people, that refuse to play against her. That first impression usually sticks for a very long time.
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So then she just waits at that gen? Not to mention you can only disable one yourself..
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Yeah, I think Skully hate is simply because her release during gen kick meta.
She is nowhere as bad after her changes and perk nerfs.
Some people are stuck in their mindset, but you can't fix that. So there is no reason to deal with it.
They will DC, so what? That's why we get bots.
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Its the hook suicides that worry me.
Bots are totally ok. But the suicide ruins it for everyone else.
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Yeah, but there is not much you can do about that.
If survivor doesn't want to play, they won't play. You can't force them.
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Its not about forcing anyone to play. Its about stopping people from ruining the game for everyone else.
Maybe have something like a system that detects suspiciously high amounts of suicides and matches survivors with other survivors that play the same way.
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Dota has system like this with behavior score.
Best punishment is to let them play together.
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