There should be a way to see outpost danger number
I think by hiding a base's danger/threat level from builders, you guys (BHVR) are just shooting yourselves in the foot.
Good builders already have a general idea for how to position/stack their base traps so that they minimize threat level. But new builders have no idea. They simply see that they went from Normal to Dangerous or Dangerous to Brutal at some random point, for no explicable reason. This makes an already complicated part of the game even MORE complicated and opaque, causing players to become more confused. Bad for players, bad for the game, so bad for BHVR.
Also, up until Sector 1, base calculations were WAY OFF. Imagine if we, as builders, could have given concrete evidence for where, when and how traps were placed to give inflated or deflated numbers? That kind of information is vital for hunting, reporting and fixing bugs promptly... instead of the 3 months it took for Sector 1. Case in point, Guard LOS calculations are still super buggy. I wish I could figure out why... but I have no idea what to report, because all I see on my end is Normal->Dangerous, and it becomes a chore to debug.
Lastly, good builders can deflate their numbers to make Normal bases feel like Dangerous or even Brutal bases. That's not fair for new raiders, is it? I've watched countless new players slam their heads against some of my bases... it has to be frustrating for them. Should the upper limit for Normal bases be lowered? By how much? What about not changing the limit, but instead changing the cost calculations for overlapping traps? Maybe just certain traps need to have their threat costs adjusted? Do you see what I mean? Balance decisions become a headache without proper information. I would love to give feedback on balance, but as a builder, I don't have the data. I would love to be able to say "Flame trap needs an extra base 20 threat" or "Ravager patrols on HRV path need at least 50 more threat" or what have you. But I can't give you that kind of feedback, or really, any feedback... because all I know is, Normal->Dangerous->Brutal.
I would even argue, humbly, that you guys are not equipped to balance the game without the help of the community. This is not meant as an insult, mind you! It's just a matter of numbers. How many people on the MYM team have 500+ hours making/playing maps and watching replays? Even if it was everybody, that's not nearly as many as there are players who have that kind of insight and experience.
Sharing a threat number is such a tiny thing to implement, but such a huge step in the right direction. My request, split into three tiers, based on difficulty to implement:
1) Easy - In addition to N/D/B text, show a number next to it or above it or somewhere convenient.
2) Medium - In addition to Easy, open the mod menu for a trap/guard to see that trap's individual threat/danger number
3) Hard - In addition to Easy/Medium above, implement a cycle through range overlay, where the volume of the range overlay is color coded to show where it is getting a threat level boost from. ie, if a Bolt trap at range 2 crosses HRV path, square 2 would turn from green to Yellow. A Spike trap range indicator would be green for no overlap, yellow for some overlap, red for multiple overlap, etc. I leave the details to you guys.
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Comments
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- Good builders already have a general idea for how to position/stack their base traps so that they minimize threat level. But new builders have no idea.
danger is affected by, distance from the HRV path, line of sight on the HRV path, number of threats in close proximity, number of threats that share line of sight, type of defense. this information is acessible though i'm not sure where probably in the codex but there aren't any real static numbers because they use MULTIPLIERS when there are tons of things sharing, that is why plasma sentinels nuke difficulty so fast, spherical targeting.
- Guard LOS calculations are still super buggy. I wish I could figure out why... but I have no idea what to report, because all I see on my end is Normal->Dangerous, and it becomes a chore to debug.
guard los calculations are based on their entire patrol path, to keep this from interfering, face guards away from the path and use bloodlust with a trigger guard to activate them so their designated routes don't look at the path until triggered.
- Lastly, good builders can deflate their numbers to make Normal bases feel like Dangerous or even Brutal bases. That's not fair for new raiders, is it?
perhaps those normals that feel like dangerous or brutal are the ACTUAL normal, and every other outpost you've seen to date just isn't up to what the developers thought people were capable of. perhaps builders just aren't that good and as a result you think that outposts are easier than they actually are. is it fair to new players? yes. the point of this game is that one hit kills you, and you're supposed to learn, memorize, and improve as you go. if you want a more casual experiences, pick a normal map with a massive HRV path using the suit advisor boost. long path + low difficulty = low trap density
- I've watched countless new players slam their heads against some of my bases... it has to be frustrating for them.
yeah, strong bases can be frustrating, but playing them until you beat them makes you a stronger player. if you don't want to be stronger, you use the system that BHVR put in place to leave with no punishment and pick another map.
the numbers you want made public aren't as cut and dry as you would think. consider a guard patrol that fluxuates it's patrol. at one moment the camera glimpses the path for about .25 seconds on a 3 minute patrol route, how do you grade that difficulty? as i understand it, currently it takes the highest point of threat and uses that. so it's calculating the distance from the path for every guard you put on patrol and giving a slightly different difficulty based on if other guards are there, if there are traps that share line of sight etc.
you are likely looking at an extremely complex equation, and in the era of machine learning you may be looking at a neural networks that's just guessing.
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My brother in building, we could argue all day about what or how guard path patrols are calculated or bugged (which they are) or how trap overlap works or any other nuance… but in the end, it’s just speculation.
I think we are actually in agreement. That is, showing a base threat number during build mode would be useful, and should be implemented.
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I think it will come into the game, it's just a matter of when.
During the AMA they listed their current top priorities: Difficulty, Social, Meaning/Depth in Raiding, and Variety.
Step 1 with Difficulty is making the difficulty and outpost challenge visible and accurate to the raider. It's not as easy as adding more difficulty categories because that might negatively impact matchmaking. Step 2 involves making it easier to give players other ways to help them pick outposts based on preference and mood.
So right now they're putting their energy into helping raiders find a base that's the right level of challenge. I doubt they will work on the builder side of things until that's done.
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