http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why are you defending MfT?
I`m genuinely curious. Like, why do some people are genuinely ready to die on a hill that MfT is okay and shouldn't be reworked (not even nerfed)?
This perk doesn't help against actually meta killers. Knight isn't meta. Neither is Doctor nor Singularity.
It doesn't have any flashy cool moments where its value is apparent like with dead soft or adrenaline which makes it fun at least for the person using it.
It's not an entire character whose nerf means your precious skins and prestiges get invalidated which makes fanatical and absurd defence kinda understandable.
So why? What are the reasons? You're so shaky for that 1(3) Gabriel Soma prestiges and 5$ / 9000 cells you spent to get him for that perk? Or what? Or just spiteful? Or really crave any possible advantage? Why are you fighting this battle? What's the point?
Like, it's just a speed boost that makes your character simply stronger at chases. It doesn't give you any new abilities, it's just a plain powerboost that most killers aren't designed around. The only reason it is fun is if you have "I win therefore I`m having fun" mentality that disregards anything except the "You win" sign at the end of the match as a source of fun, no matter the cost.
Nicolas Cage comes out next week, plz buy him and replace that disgusting pile of code that is called a perk by mistake with Dramaturgy, thanks.
Comments
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the only people seriously defending it are survivors who want broken stuff to use. Their the same people who defended dead hard, and the same people who cry about how dbd is more fun when its unbalanced (for survivor)
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It's just not worth spending the time or energy getting mad at, that's all. It's got some problematic synergies that can be addressed, but other than that it's just... fine.
In a broader sense, it is nice to have viable alternatives to extant Exhaustion perks without having to create new perks that inflict Exhaustion, too.
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Because I genuinely don't see how it's more powerful than other exhaustion perks.
Yes it's a strong perk, and it could do with some minor nerfs, but it's not the dangerously OP end of days disaster people keep crying it is, and survivors deserve to get new perks that are actually good and mix up the meta.
I main M1 killers such as Ghostface and Pig, and I find Sprint Burst to be much more problematic than MfT in practice. You can theorise why the math makes MfT OP all you like, but what happens in practice is what counts. MfT is only OP with incredibly skilled god-looping survivors with perfect pathing and flawless reaction times, the same survivors who can sit on a 99'd Sprint Burst to use just as you lunge and whiff btw.
Minor nerfs that would be fair: Please choose any two of the following three options.
- Instead of being a half-exhaustion perk, it's a full exhaustion perk. Inflicts Exhaustion as long as you are injured.
- Only works in chase. Preventing you from pre-running and gaining value from it before the killer has a chance to build up towards Bloodlust.
- Slight value nerf. Swap MfT's 3% with Boon: Dark Theory's 2%.
Tangential nerf: Reduce Hope from 7% haste to 5%.
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The loss in question:
It still functions exactly the same, and most people weren't getting more than two uses. I feel like you're coping.
OT:
Because I like perks that aren't clunky to use and give me use in every game.
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because they crutch on like they did dead hard that's why they care
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Okay, but the issue isn't that it's "just powerful". The issue is that it's powerful only against not so strong killers and its impact affects the entirety of the second half of the chase instead of being a momentarily boost, meaning its value stacks on itself, quickly getting out of hand. It has a lot of issues and the permanent 3% haste for simply existing is the main one.
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I only play "not strong killers" and I don't have that experience. I regularly catch survivors who it turns out have MfT, and I barely notice it. Once in a blue moon I'll encounter an actually good looper who evades me for longer than they should, and like I said, a Sprint Burst would do just the same, usually more effectively.
Some killers just need to get good and stop relying on crutches like tunnelling and quadruple slowdown perks that catapult them into an MMR bracket they're not equipped to deal with without them.
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""It doesn't have any flashy cool moments where its value is apparent like with dead soft or adrenaline which makes it fun at least for the person using it.""
You've clearly never had fun plays with the endurance because that stuff can be like crack. Work with a friend, 99 their heal so when ghostface comes back you tap them and neither one of you are down in a single hit. Feels good.
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I'm not going to enter the MFT debate but using Knight as an example when you can indefinitely loop his buddies around a rock without any haste effect is probably not the best argument there is.
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Because I genuinely don't see the issue with the speed boost it gives when I play killer. I'd much rather they bring MFT with Dead Hard opposed to Sprint Burst or Lithe, or even Balanced Landing depending on the map.
I do however dislike the endurance part of the perk, which I feel like needs to be removed or have its numbers cut.
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so the answer is in your statement "good looper".
why should there be a perk that additionally rewards already rewarded enough skill expression against such killers? Why should a perk make already inconsistent killers even more inconsistent?
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I don't know? Are you saying Sprint Burst and Dead Hard shouldn't exist either? Because that's what they already do. This is just another option.
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these are fair nerf ideas. I would replace one with "after 10 seconds, deactivates after dropping a pallet" though, since part of its issue comes from being able to both greed and chain them more effectively. would hurt the skill ceiling more without affecting the floor too much.
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Why should you get easy 4Kills without any struggle, effort or inconvenience. Killer just want ez mode.
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I would just do that hope would not stack with it and remove the endurance for now.
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Its broken no clue how you can play c tiers and not get it. Ghostie can instadown so thats understandable but pig? 20% longer chasetime.
If you are 5m from a survivor with MFT, it will take 2 seconds longer to reach them. 2 more seconds means you can run 8 more meters before the killer catchest you. meaning, in just a 5m distance, the pallets you can reach is increased by 8 meters. Now imagine that on the chase wide scale.
This IS what happens in practice. its not some hyper specific scenario. Quite literally, at any time, MFT increases the time it takes to gain distance by 20%. You dont even need to earn it, just for free you get 20% longer distance.
other exhaustion perks are at least once a chase trump cards oriented around tile chaining. Or in SB's case, just about being a safety net and a possible insane boost for skilled players. MFT? Just... your chases take longer. Thats it. Just the time it takes to reach you is increased. Not about chaining tiles or getting out of a deadzone, just flat out making your chases more valuable. It doesnt matter how skilled you are, that effect will always be relevant. A bad player will take 20% longer to reach. A cracked player will take 20% longer to reach. Its just bad game design.
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that argument doesnt really hold after MoM, which was from licensed dlc. weve already been down this road, which is why people tried to get it addressed in the PTB before money got involved.
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This IS what happens in practice.
No it's not. This is what happens on your calculator.
In practice, survivors get stuck on corners, they don't take the shortest possible path around a loop, they get caught out by a mind game, they get caught in a deadzone, they get interrupted mid-action, they stop to tap a gen... If you play in a way that reduces the length of a chase to 3 seconds as you round the corner when they don't expect you to, that extra 20% is meaningless.
But also:
If you are 5m from a survivor with MFT, it will take 2 seconds longer to reach them.
If you are 5m away, you don't need to reach 0m, you only need to get to about 4m until you can lunge, which covers 6m distance. Which just goes to show you're only thinking with your calculator.
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Doesn't matter to me if they nerf it or not as I don't use it but I still think people got gaslit into thinking it's a busted perk.
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The reason I don’t really like it cause it gives you permanent speed while injured. It also allows you to abuse powerful windows, tiles, etc. Another reason I don’t like it cause you can stack it with Hope giving you 10 percent speed. Which I feel is way too much especially at endgame. But anyway I’m sure Made For This will get nerfed eventually but we will see.
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It's something new in the meta that isn't CoH or MoM levels of OP.
The perk is fine. It could lose the Endurance effect, but it's still fine.
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Because the perk isn't that strong. People just love to exaggerate anything and everything that the opposing side has over them in the hopes they won't have to deal with it. Its a combination of self inflated ego, copium and denial.
Essentially a 'lets scream super loud about this new thing now and hope BHVR does something'.
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Same reason why literally anyone defends any overtuned perk, strong things are fun to use lol.
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Right, this kind of math shows why Skull Merchant is such an oppressive OP chase killer. /s
The haste is fine, doesn't need the Endurance effect though.
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SM haste is super strong idk what you mean. Its only mid because its veyr inconsistent when its active. If you had a constant 3% haste in chase as her she'd be pretty decent. Except unlike MFT she has it for 30s at most, the majority of which will be happening out of chase.
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Im not defending it, in fact I think it giving Endurance on top of a speed boost just doesnt make sense and could easily be 2 seperate perks
That being said Im not gonna bawl my eyes out for a good perk that is still easily outclassed by other Exhaustion perks
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There are difference between killers simply being worse or better at dealing with more resources survivors have and killers literally ignoring this particular resource while it shits on the rest of the killers.
Not to mention that neither SB nor DH do the thing that MfT does - making survivor stronger in chase, not being able to get a better position / reset once.
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This.
I just think the perk has too much going on with it.
I use to despise MFT, and I still kind of do, mainly since I prefer having Dead Hard be meta, but MFT just provides too much value due to the Endurance effect.
Want to snowball and get pressure? Well you cannot easily do it because of the Endurance upon healing procing from healing Survivors from the Dying State.
Want to chase a Survivor? You are going to have a harder time doing so because they move 3% faster. And with an experienced Survivor 3% can make all the difference.
It also bothers me a bit how this perk feels specifically like it's meant to target weaker Killers. Look at the high-tier Killers. What is 3% Haste against Blight? What is 3% Haste against Spirit or Nurse? Most high end Killers can handle this perk, it just makes weaker Killers even weaker.
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MoM would like a word.
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You've never eaten a 99d Sprint Burst have you.
You chase a survivor for however long you need to to catch up, could be 50 loops around a pallet. Then they feign getting 'caught' on a corner so you lunge, then they Sprint Burst away and you whiff the attack, having used that loop to it's capacity AND preserved the pallet.
That's doubling a chase. Not extending it by the 20% MfT gives you.
Again, I literally play Pig. I'd rather take MfT over SB as Pig any day.
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People defended dash DH and old Eruption unironically too
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The real question is why are you still bringing it up? These debates have been done to death. I’ve read through every comment on every post about this perk and no one is bringing anything new to the discussion. Let it go. They’ll either nerf it or they won’t. Life goes on.
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Because it's nice having a perk that isn't an exhaustion perk. SB is still leagues better than MFT. You want distance from being hit? You've got Overcome for that. You need to get out of a loop ASAP? Lithe. MFT has saved my hide more times than I can count, but only because of killers who misjudged the distance needed for a lunge to connect. It's allowed me to reach a pallet that I would've been downed at because the killer has played predictably.
You know what's better than trading a health state for 3% haste? Not getting hit in the first place.
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as far as I remember, 99ing sprint burst takes precise timing & not doing jack to hold it like that instead of being free to do whatever you want.
Sprint burst is acceptable because it has actual downsides of forcing you to walk or, on contrary, to never stop running which puts restrictions on the survivor.
What downsides does MfT have again? "Be injured"? not like you can't heal and still get full value if the killer commits to the chase.
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you see, if people let go then it would look like the perk is a non-issue to devs, because there's no negative or any feedback whatsoever on it.
devs often tend to leave problematic things that aren't spoken of enough be untouched for a very long time because the community doesn't make it clear these things are a problem to them.
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This! This perk is making those players that were night impossible to catch untouchable for all prectical purposes, and its really frustrating when all thats standing between you and them is one tree or one pile of scrap, yet you can do nothing but leave them and hope that any of the other survivors poses a better situation for you.
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Although, from my perspective, this is a different issue: players as a whole have seen how effective crying, pissing, and bitching all over the forums can be for nerfing things they don't like. It worked for dead hard twice, DS, CoH, medkits, flashlights, reassurance, base gen speeds, and now even prove thyself. And even if you want to claim those were deserved nerfs, which some were, the community perception is that complaining loudly, early, and as often as possible is highly effective.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that this perk is problematic il for anyone with an understanding of killer base kit mechanics. Especially when there were several posts about 'be thinking of ways to nerf MfT' days before the PTB launched. That makes it really difficult for me to take most criticism seriously when there were genuine campaigns to 'just nerf it' before anyone could see it in action.
None of this feels like genuine criticism. This is a frenzy of people who are confused and angry that BHVR is looking at data before taking action, instead of just nerfing it because they posted about it.
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as far as I remember, 99ing sprint burst takes precise timing & not doing jack to hold it like that instead of being free to do whatever you want
And yet it happens to me more often than an untouchable MfT user.
The game doesn't actually run purely on feedback. The devs have direct data on what perks/killers/maps etc. are actually strong or weak, because they influence kill/escape rates.
Usually when something is changed for balance purposes, it's because it's objectively over/underperforming, not because people complained. Although complaints can get something changed when it's not objectively over/underperforming, because sometimes the issue isn't balance, it's accessibility or just 'not fun'.
So if MfT does get nerfed, it's more likely because it is actually inflating escape rates. But if it doesn't, it's likely not actually a problem, and the issues people have with it are theoretical or a matter of perspective or confirmation bias.
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Remove the 3% and keep the Endurance effect. Problem solved.
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I don't know that anyone would use that perk, though. That'd effectively be demolishing the perk and dooming it to languish in the depths of mediocre tools nobody ever thinks to bring.
Better to do it the other way around. Keep the 3%, because that's the useful and engaging part, and remove the Endurance, because that part is just a cherry on top the perk doesn't need.
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The problem of the perk isn't the endurance effect but rather the 3% which has got to go.
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As killer I haven't even noticed it when I'm playing. But I can say that as survivor it's made a huge difference. Not in what it does or is meant to do, but since I've started running it I haven't taken any, I'm assuming latency, hits after fully vaulting a window or pallet and then being downed 10 feet away. For that reason alone I'm happy with it. If they could fix that problem I could care less what they do with the perk itself.
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The community also has a bad habit of making a big deal out of anything they just don’t like whether it’s problematic or not. Hence your post. The devs do need to listen to the community but they need to analyze what people are saying rather than just look at how many people are complaining about a specific thing. I could make a thousand posts about things I don’t like and a thousand people could agree but that doesn’t mean those things need to be changed. No one is ever going to agree on everything. Deal with it. Made for This has not broken the game. Adapt and move on.
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Because the Perk in itself is fine. Paired with Hope it becomes a problem in Endgame, HOWEVER this is mainly due to hope. Those funny videos you see where a 110%-Killer gets looped around a rock, this would also happen with only Hope. Made for this is not the problem in this combo.
Furthermore, it is a reward for people who dont play Exhaustion-Perks AND even an incentive for people to drop their Exhaustion-Perk. Because, lets face it - to see less Exhaustion-Perks you cannot just make them bad like they did with Balanced Landing or Dead Hard. They also need to offer an Alternative, otherwise people will just use the Exhaustion-Perks until they are nerfed into the ground (which is something Killers want, I know).
Then it is the only good Survivor-Perk which got released in years. The last time Survivors were about to get a new decent Perk was Reassurance, which got gutted before it left the PTB (on some questionable reasons, because suddenly Killer players thought that it is really bad that a Survivor can be hold hostage at the hook..how merciful they are...).
And last but not least - Made for This is just the current Scapegoat for bad Killer players why they lose games. This community is unable to reflect on their own mistakes (this applies to both sides). Killers will die on the hill that they just lost to Made for This instead of all the misplays they did during the game. And if Made for This gets nerfed, they will still lose games and search for another Scapegoat. (possibly just SWF, noticed how the SWF-complaints went down a bit in favor of Made for This-complaints?)
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Hope those who defend that enjoy the moments until they lose it.
Just don't have any negative thoughts about strong killers who don't get affected by much of it and Fearmonger or Exhaustion add-ons.
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Is it wrong to actually enjoy things in the game?
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MfT is inferior to Sprint Burst, and Sprint Burst is perfectly fine. I consistently win my Killer matches with no problem. People complaining about MfT are the same people who blame their losses on anything but themselves. They lose, see a perk, blame the perk, instead of recording and watching back the match and seeing all the mistakes they made that led to their loss. I used to be that foolish child. I played Halo 2 with my friends, and if I lost to something I tried to get it banned in our friend group (generally with much success sadly). None of the stuff I wanted banned was busted in the slightest, I just lost to it without figuring out why, and didn't want to lose more. Exact same problem I have seen with most MfT complainers.
I will certainly be swayed if I see all normal loops ran and where the individual loop breakeven points make it consistently 1 vault normal compared to 3 MfT or some such, but I haven't seen that yet. I main Killer, but I play both sides to figure out counters to things. If I play enough of a Killer, I will find Survivors who can outplay me, which I can then use those same strategies as Survivor. Then when a Killer counters those strategies, I know how to deal with the Survivors when I play that Killer again. In both my matches as Survivor and as Killer, I have found no greater value in MfT than Sprint Burst with the exception of Knight and Doc. I'm not gunna complain about a perk that only counters 2 Killers, and not that well mind you. Fearmonger is still a general perk available to everyone. What are they gunna do, never touch a gen? Well then they are never trying to win.
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MfT is stronger than sprint burst when it comes to killers who are affected by MfT. Not to mention they do 2 entirely different things.
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Apparently yes, lol.
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Which I already mentioned, Doc and Knight. I also already mentioned a general perk available to everyone, Fearmonger, which hard shuts MfT down if paralyzed in fear of it.
They do the same thing in different ways, disincentivize chase. Sprint Burst can make the start of a chase in a safe area or allows for going to a different loop if 99'd, and MfT just makes Killer mistakes sting harsher. If the Killer doesn't make mistakes, there is no benefit in MfT. Even mathematically Sprint Burst gives 6 meters of distance, but MfT only gives .12 m/s. That means it takes 50 seconds for MfT to yield more value than SB. Heck, it takes 35s to reach Bloodlust 3, so if a Killer reaches Bloodlust 3 and can't hit them for 15s, unironic skill dif git gud.
To be fair that is comparing the speed functions of both. I don't think the endurance effect should be on MfT, and it should be moved over to Buckle Up or any other underperforming perk.
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