Why are you defending MfT?

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I`m genuinely curious. Like, why do some people are genuinely ready to die on a hill that MfT is okay and shouldn't be reworked (not even nerfed)?

This perk doesn't help against actually meta killers. Knight isn't meta. Neither is Doctor nor Singularity.

It doesn't have any flashy cool moments where its value is apparent like with dead soft or adrenaline which makes it fun at least for the person using it.

It's not an entire character whose nerf means your precious skins and prestiges get invalidated which makes fanatical and absurd defence kinda understandable.

So why? What are the reasons? You're so shaky for that 1(3) Gabriel Soma prestiges and 5$ / 9000 cells you spent to get him for that perk? Or what? Or just spiteful? Or really crave any possible advantage? Why are you fighting this battle? What's the point?

Like, it's just a speed boost that makes your character simply stronger at chases. It doesn't give you any new abilities, it's just a plain powerboost that most killers aren't designed around. The only reason it is fun is if you have "I win therefore I`m having fun" mentality that disregards anything except the "You win" sign at the end of the match as a source of fun, no matter the cost.

Nicolas Cage comes out next week, plz buy him and replace that disgusting pile of code that is called a perk by mistake with Dramaturgy, thanks.

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Comments

  • Sharby
    Sharby Member Posts: 498
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    The loss in question:



    It still functions exactly the same, and most people weren't getting more than two uses. I feel like you're coping.



    OT:


    Because I like perks that aren't clunky to use and give me use in every game.

  • KolbyKolbyKolby
    KolbyKolbyKolby Member Posts: 608
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    ""It doesn't have any flashy cool moments where its value is apparent like with dead soft or adrenaline which makes it fun at least for the person using it.""



    You've clearly never had fun plays with the endurance because that stuff can be like crack. Work with a friend, 99 their heal so when ghostface comes back you tap them and neither one of you are down in a single hit. Feels good.

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611
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    I'm not going to enter the MFT debate but using Knight as an example when you can indefinitely loop his buddies around a rock without any haste effect is probably not the best argument there is.

  • TeleportingTurkey
    TeleportingTurkey Member Posts: 589
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    so the answer is in your statement "good looper".

    why should there be a perk that additionally rewards already rewarded enough skill expression against such killers? Why should a perk make already inconsistent killers even more inconsistent?

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
    edited July 2023
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    these are fair nerf ideas. I would replace one with "after 10 seconds, deactivates after dropping a pallet" though, since part of its issue comes from being able to both greed and chain them more effectively. would hurt the skill ceiling more without affecting the floor too much.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,292
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    I would just do that hope would not stack with it and remove the endurance for now.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    that argument doesnt really hold after MoM, which was from licensed dlc. weve already been down this road, which is why people tried to get it addressed in the PTB before money got involved.

  • GolbezGarlandGabrant
    GolbezGarlandGabrant Member Posts: 871
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    Doesn't matter to me if they nerf it or not as I don't use it but I still think people got gaslit into thinking it's a busted perk.

  • Robotfangirl67
    Robotfangirl67 Member Posts: 638
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    The reason I don’t really like it cause it gives you permanent speed while injured. It also allows you to abuse powerful windows, tiles, etc. Another reason I don’t like it cause you can stack it with Hope giving you 10 percent speed. Which I feel is way too much especially at endgame. But anyway I’m sure Made For This will get nerfed eventually but we will see.

  • Steakdabait
    Steakdabait Member Posts: 1,263
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    Same reason why literally anyone defends any overtuned perk, strong things are fun to use lol.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 1,356
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    Right, this kind of math shows why Skull Merchant is such an oppressive OP chase killer. /s

    The haste is fine, doesn't need the Endurance effect though.

  • nars
    nars Member Posts: 1,124
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    SM haste is super strong idk what you mean. Its only mid because its veyr inconsistent when its active. If you had a constant 3% haste in chase as her she'd be pretty decent. Except unlike MFT she has it for 30s at most, the majority of which will be happening out of chase.

  • TeleportingTurkey
    TeleportingTurkey Member Posts: 589
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    There are difference between killers simply being worse or better at dealing with more resources survivors have and killers literally ignoring this particular resource while it shits on the rest of the killers.

    Not to mention that neither SB nor DH do the thing that MfT does - making survivor stronger in chase, not being able to get a better position / reset once.

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 3,025
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    This.

    I just think the perk has too much going on with it.

    I use to despise MFT, and I still kind of do, mainly since I prefer having Dead Hard be meta, but MFT just provides too much value due to the Endurance effect.

    Want to snowball and get pressure? Well you cannot easily do it because of the Endurance upon healing procing from healing Survivors from the Dying State.

    Want to chase a Survivor? You are going to have a harder time doing so because they move 3% faster. And with an experienced Survivor 3% can make all the difference.

    It also bothers me a bit how this perk feels specifically like it's meant to target weaker Killers. Look at the high-tier Killers. What is 3% Haste against Blight? What is 3% Haste against Spirit or Nurse? Most high end Killers can handle this perk, it just makes weaker Killers even weaker.

  • ShinobuSK
    ShinobuSK Member Posts: 5,279
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    People defended dash DH and old Eruption unironically too

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    The real question is why are you still bringing it up? These debates have been done to death. I’ve read through every comment on every post about this perk and no one is bringing anything new to the discussion. Let it go. They’ll either nerf it or they won’t. Life goes on.

  • Kaitsja
    Kaitsja Member Posts: 1,718
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    Because it's nice having a perk that isn't an exhaustion perk. SB is still leagues better than MFT. You want distance from being hit? You've got Overcome for that. You need to get out of a loop ASAP? Lithe. MFT has saved my hide more times than I can count, but only because of killers who misjudged the distance needed for a lunge to connect. It's allowed me to reach a pallet that I would've been downed at because the killer has played predictably.

    You know what's better than trading a health state for 3% haste? Not getting hit in the first place.

  • TeleportingTurkey
    TeleportingTurkey Member Posts: 589
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    as far as I remember, 99ing sprint burst takes precise timing & not doing jack to hold it like that instead of being free to do whatever you want.

    Sprint burst is acceptable because it has actual downsides of forcing you to walk or, on contrary, to never stop running which puts restrictions on the survivor.

    What downsides does MfT have again? "Be injured"? not like you can't heal and still get full value if the killer commits to the chase.

  • TeleportingTurkey
    TeleportingTurkey Member Posts: 589
    edited July 2023
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    you see, if people let go then it would look like the perk is a non-issue to devs, because there's no negative or any feedback whatsoever on it.

    devs often tend to leave problematic things that aren't spoken of enough be untouched for a very long time because the community doesn't make it clear these things are a problem to them.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 4,969
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    This! This perk is making those players that were night impossible to catch untouchable for all prectical purposes, and its really frustrating when all thats standing between you and them is one tree or one pile of scrap, yet you can do nothing but leave them and hope that any of the other survivors poses a better situation for you.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,002
    edited July 2023
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    as far as I remember, 99ing sprint burst takes precise timing & not doing jack to hold it like that instead of being free to do whatever you want

    And yet it happens to me more often than an untouchable MfT user.

    The game doesn't actually run purely on feedback. The devs have direct data on what perks/killers/maps etc. are actually strong or weak, because they influence kill/escape rates.

    Usually when something is changed for balance purposes, it's because it's objectively over/underperforming, not because people complained. Although complaints can get something changed when it's not objectively over/underperforming, because sometimes the issue isn't balance, it's accessibility or just 'not fun'.

    So if MfT does get nerfed, it's more likely because it is actually inflating escape rates. But if it doesn't, it's likely not actually a problem, and the issues people have with it are theoretical or a matter of perspective or confirmation bias.

  • xerox8521
    xerox8521 Member Posts: 101
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    Remove the 3% and keep the Endurance effect. Problem solved.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,305
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    I don't know that anyone would use that perk, though. That'd effectively be demolishing the perk and dooming it to languish in the depths of mediocre tools nobody ever thinks to bring.

    Better to do it the other way around. Keep the 3%, because that's the useful and engaging part, and remove the Endurance, because that part is just a cherry on top the perk doesn't need.

  • xerox8521
    xerox8521 Member Posts: 101
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    The problem of the perk isn't the endurance effect but rather the 3% which has got to go.

  • Moonras2
    Moonras2 Member Posts: 271
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    As killer I haven't even noticed it when I'm playing. But I can say that as survivor it's made a huge difference. Not in what it does or is meant to do, but since I've started running it I haven't taken any, I'm assuming latency, hits after fully vaulting a window or pallet and then being downed 10 feet away. For that reason alone I'm happy with it. If they could fix that problem I could care less what they do with the perk itself.

  • DavidHypnos
    DavidHypnos Member Posts: 730
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    The community also has a bad habit of making a big deal out of anything they just don’t like whether it’s problematic or not. Hence your post. The devs do need to listen to the community but they need to analyze what people are saying rather than just look at how many people are complaining about a specific thing. I could make a thousand posts about things I don’t like and a thousand people could agree but that doesn’t mean those things need to be changed. No one is ever going to agree on everything. Deal with it. Made for This has not broken the game. Adapt and move on.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,683
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    Because the Perk in itself is fine. Paired with Hope it becomes a problem in Endgame, HOWEVER this is mainly due to hope. Those funny videos you see where a 110%-Killer gets looped around a rock, this would also happen with only Hope. Made for this is not the problem in this combo.

    Furthermore, it is a reward for people who dont play Exhaustion-Perks AND even an incentive for people to drop their Exhaustion-Perk. Because, lets face it - to see less Exhaustion-Perks you cannot just make them bad like they did with Balanced Landing or Dead Hard. They also need to offer an Alternative, otherwise people will just use the Exhaustion-Perks until they are nerfed into the ground (which is something Killers want, I know).

    Then it is the only good Survivor-Perk which got released in years. The last time Survivors were about to get a new decent Perk was Reassurance, which got gutted before it left the PTB (on some questionable reasons, because suddenly Killer players thought that it is really bad that a Survivor can be hold hostage at the hook..how merciful they are...).


    And last but not least - Made for This is just the current Scapegoat for bad Killer players why they lose games. This community is unable to reflect on their own mistakes (this applies to both sides). Killers will die on the hill that they just lost to Made for This instead of all the misplays they did during the game. And if Made for This gets nerfed, they will still lose games and search for another Scapegoat. (possibly just SWF, noticed how the SWF-complaints went down a bit in favor of Made for This-complaints?)

  • lav3
    lav3 Member Posts: 758
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    Hope those who defend that enjoy the moments until they lose it.

    Just don't have any negative thoughts about strong killers who don't get affected by much of it and Fearmonger or Exhaustion add-ons.

  • Nun_So_Vile
    Nun_So_Vile Member Posts: 2,150
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    Is it wrong to actually enjoy things in the game?

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,889
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    MfT is inferior to Sprint Burst, and Sprint Burst is perfectly fine. I consistently win my Killer matches with no problem. People complaining about MfT are the same people who blame their losses on anything but themselves. They lose, see a perk, blame the perk, instead of recording and watching back the match and seeing all the mistakes they made that led to their loss. I used to be that foolish child. I played Halo 2 with my friends, and if I lost to something I tried to get it banned in our friend group (generally with much success sadly). None of the stuff I wanted banned was busted in the slightest, I just lost to it without figuring out why, and didn't want to lose more. Exact same problem I have seen with most MfT complainers.

    I will certainly be swayed if I see all normal loops ran and where the individual loop breakeven points make it consistently 1 vault normal compared to 3 MfT or some such, but I haven't seen that yet. I main Killer, but I play both sides to figure out counters to things. If I play enough of a Killer, I will find Survivors who can outplay me, which I can then use those same strategies as Survivor. Then when a Killer counters those strategies, I know how to deal with the Survivors when I play that Killer again. In both my matches as Survivor and as Killer, I have found no greater value in MfT than Sprint Burst with the exception of Knight and Doc. I'm not gunna complain about a perk that only counters 2 Killers, and not that well mind you. Fearmonger is still a general perk available to everyone. What are they gunna do, never touch a gen? Well then they are never trying to win.

  • TeleportingTurkey
    TeleportingTurkey Member Posts: 589
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    MfT is stronger than sprint burst when it comes to killers who are affected by MfT. Not to mention they do 2 entirely different things.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,889
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    Which I already mentioned, Doc and Knight. I also already mentioned a general perk available to everyone, Fearmonger, which hard shuts MfT down if paralyzed in fear of it.

    They do the same thing in different ways, disincentivize chase. Sprint Burst can make the start of a chase in a safe area or allows for going to a different loop if 99'd, and MfT just makes Killer mistakes sting harsher. If the Killer doesn't make mistakes, there is no benefit in MfT. Even mathematically Sprint Burst gives 6 meters of distance, but MfT only gives .12 m/s. That means it takes 50 seconds for MfT to yield more value than SB. Heck, it takes 35s to reach Bloodlust 3, so if a Killer reaches Bloodlust 3 and can't hit them for 15s, unironic skill dif git gud.

    To be fair that is comparing the speed functions of both. I don't think the endurance effect should be on MfT, and it should be moved over to Buckle Up or any other underperforming perk.