The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

We need to talk about Skull Merchant

dbdthegame
dbdthegame Member Posts: 699
edited July 2023 in General Discussions

Today, Team Eternal - the top comp team in the game - played against a P100 Skull Merchant streamer, who I won't name, who camped a 3-gen from the start of the match on Torment Creek. The entire match lasted 50 minutes, and only through perfect coordination were Eternal able to break the 3-gen. If it takes almost enough time for the game to end for the best team in the world to break a 3-gen, what's the average pub solo Q team expected to do?

There is absolutely no excuse for this killer to continue to exist in her current configuration. She needs to be killswitched until something better can be made of her.

EDIT: This game also showcased a critical design flaw with Overcharge, that was never removed when the perk was nerfed: the perk still guarantees a skill check, which regresses 15% of the generator if it is failed. Team Eternal - the best team in the world - failed the skill check numerous times. An infinitely recharging difficult skill check that regresses 15% of a generator shouldn't exist, and is just as problematic as old Call of Brine and old Overcharge were for the game. The skill check either needs to have a hefty cooldown attached to it, or be significantly easier to hit (I'm talking 2x the current size). As it stands, Overcharge is much stronger than Call of Brine, and Call of Brine is just a much worse version of Surveillance.

«13456

Comments

  • ClownGuy5
    ClownGuy5 Member Posts: 85

    I love SM as a killer so Im not gonna blame her but wow that guy must really be boring to sit in a 3 gen simulatoe for 50 mins

  • ClownGuy5
    ClownGuy5 Member Posts: 85

    Its not a design flaw its how it works and makes it unique.

    Instead of instant regression and a surv just tapping once to negate a the whole point of it OC makes it so that surv get punished for tapping a gen or missing a skillcheck in general.

    A cooldown for the skillcheck when a surv does miss the skillcheck would be fine tho.

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842

    is there a link the a vod?

  • dbdthegame
    dbdthegame Member Posts: 699

    I don't want to link it, I don't want to seem like I'm shaming the streamer. Look up KnightLight's twitter for a screenshot of the endgame. The SM's stream has a VOD of the game.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,756

    right but if your missing many overcharge skill-checks consecutively then many killers will have extended 3 gens because of non-stop regression. 15% regression is like free old pain res. that is also why that whole call of brine+overcharge at 300% regression was problematic because even if you did not miss any skill-checks, you still got punished with hyper fast regression. Now you only get punished for playing survivor poorly.

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,126

    Haven’t seen the vod yet but using one game to complain on SM again seems a bit excessive.

    I don’t see why Overcharge has to be nerfed. The bonus regression penalty is based on Survivors making a mistake. While team Eternal is very strong, I’m sure they didn’t become the best team via hitting Skillchecks.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,756

    uh yeah? in what world do you think that missing skill-checks is playing survivor good? you seem to be suggesting that we should now balance around survivors that miss-skill checks.

  • Steakdabait
    Steakdabait Member Posts: 1,275

    you see it's uhh like chess haha see doing nothing but pushing survivors off gens for nearly an hour while fishing for mistakes is extremely skill intensive and interactive bro especially for the survivors. Maybe once you understand the subtle complexity of her mechanics and how they interact with the upper levels of the macro game of Dead by daylight, specifically at high mmr and spent the time refining that skill as i have you'll actually learn and enjoy playing against skill merchant for 45+ minutes. Until then enjoy comp dropping and holding W or however you play at your clearly low mmr.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,756
    edited July 2023

    i don't know. I played dbd in a time where I had to play against old hex:ruin every... single game. that was truly a polarizing experience. some games, i had to do all 5 gens under that hex:ruin effect. I don't even know if survivor would ever put up with that perk if it was like that today. If skill-check is too hard, perhaps they can make it easier I guess. doctor has snap out mechanic. maybe make skill-check as big as snap out though some people might still miss.

  • dbdthegame
    dbdthegame Member Posts: 699

    ...and now, skillcheck Ruin doesn't exist anymore, because the design was unfair. You're making my point for me: if a perk is designed egregiously, then it should rightfully get changed. Overcharge gives you the same regression that old Pain Res did for nothing more than a missed skill check, which you can immediately apply again by kicking the gen, and again and again and again, with absolutely no strings attached. This is problematic, and to an even greater extent that old Pain Res was (at least, there, you had to earn the hook, instead of it being free). Either the skill check must be made dramatically easier to hit, or it must function on a cooldown/token basis. There is no excuse for perk to continue to exist as it does currently, especially since BHVR has made it abundantly clear that free gen regression is unhealthy.

  • BlueRose
    BlueRose Member Posts: 658

    Tho I do agree she needs work but I don't agree to kill switching her. If they killswitch her to just rework her that would mean it would be a year+ of a killer being unplayable. I'm sorry that not going to happen no matter how many times you and others ask for it. This dev team takes forever to rework killers, look at twins, and even sakuko who was in the same state and also had a really unfun play style like sm for a year before they even decide to touch her. I get it ppl hate her bc the easiest way to win with her is 3 genning(no all of us do that btw, I never pick 3 close gens on any killer and guard them at the beginning of a match. If a 3 gen happens its bc the survivor allow it to happen.)

    My point is, asking for a killer to be killswitched when nothing 'game-breaking' is wrong with them is dumb. Yes SM has problems and can be unfun to go against but there is nothing game breaking wrong with her. Also, consider how long this dev team takes to rework killers before asking this type of stuff. It takes them a LONG time to do anything about killers. Its fine to ask for changes to a killer bc they have a playstyle that is really unfun but don't ask for a killer, who ppl paid for, to be disabled till they get reworked bc you basically asking for them to be unplayable for a year or more. I know I would be pissed off and expect a refund if they did that.

    Also, I'll add the devs have already said several times they looking into 3-genning. They are working on a system to help with that since they don't see 3 genning as an SM problem but a game problem in general. We see what happens from here but asking for a killer(who isnt broken) to be killswitched is silly esp when they could easily be killswitched for a year or more.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,756

    every generator kick is 2.5% regression. 42x2.5% = 105% regression. that is enough regression for an entire full gen. it is dangerous to allow killer to continuously regress generator effectively because of that 3 gen gameplay. At least they won after 50 minutes. I am sure pre-patch, it would been hostage game. i think the long games like that need a faster ending like the hatch but that is just my opinion.

  • dbdthegame
    dbdthegame Member Posts: 699

    Did you miss what I said? I didn't say the killer kicked gens 42 times, I said the survivors failed the SKILL CHECK 42 times. The number of times the killer kicked gens is far too many to count in one lifetime. And 105% regression is absolutely nothing when the game lasted 50 minutes. 105% regression is just barely 94.5s of aggregate gen time. The total gen regression (along with the basekit 2.5%) counting Overcharge is 735%, with 630% coming from OC skill checks alone.

  • nars
    nars Member Posts: 1,124

    she definitely needs a rework

    but if eternal was missing OC skillchecks then thats on them lmao

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,756

    do you not see anything wrong with this? your post is blaming skull merchant for 630% generator regression+125 gen-kicks. you get 312% gen regression+all over-time regression. your almost nearing 1000%+ regression. this is why I don't understand pulsar or edgarpoop. Many killer player ask for this and faster regressing generator. your living the consequence of those requests.

  • ClownGuy5
    ClownGuy5 Member Posts: 85

    Its not free when you have to take time to kick the gen and hope a surv doesnt miss a skillcheck which rlly only affects newer players. Mediocre to pros should land the skillcheck 9/10.

    Sure make it only take like 8% but at the rate with gen regression perks it will just make things worse.

    Now for a sidenote if they are the best comp team how are they missing an overcharge skillcheck that many times? OC skillcheck is not the size of an atom. If SM had the add on that makes skillchecks smaller then forget this entire statement.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,781

    If you've ever played 5D chess, you can just barely begin to understand the complexity of the greatest and most wonderful character Adriana.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,781

    Thank god someone else said it


    Overcharge is an rng check.

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842

    Also how many of the missed skill checks was overcharge is unclear because oppression was also in play and good luck hitting silent random hard skill checks.

  • dbdthegame
    dbdthegame Member Posts: 699

    I'm not blaming SM, I'm saying her kit exacerbates the problem, but also exposes it: overcharge still needs nerfs.

  • dbdthegame
    dbdthegame Member Posts: 699

    She didn't have the addon, no. Which is even funnier, because if she did, they would have failed it way more than they already did. But they also were expected to hit the skill check on the run, hundreds of times throughout the trial. The issue isn't with hitting the skill check, it's with a free difficult, unlimited skill check that applies additional gen regression if failed.

  • dbdthegame
    dbdthegame Member Posts: 699

    Something something every pallet is a pawn something something

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,781

    Oh....no, I'm afraid it's far more complex, we Adriana stans wouldn't expect you to understand.


    (this game is the most ######### insane thing I have ever played)

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,875

    Is there anywhere I can watch this match? There is so much conflicting information in this thread that I have no idea what actually happened.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,781

    I believe KnightLight links it on his Twitter.


    I believe the SM streams on Kick, but I'm not sure.

  • dbdthegame
    dbdthegame Member Posts: 699

    Check KnightLight's twitter. It's basically 50 minutes of genkick and slowly getting more and more cocky while pushing out leading to the 3-gen breaking.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,781

    I don't think it's against the rules to link the stream and I think the context is vitally important in this scenario.


    Obviously, the person playing her doesn't deserve any hate and nobody here should be #########-talking them as a person. They came to prove something and played SM to near her maximum ability. They are a newer player and have some...ideas about the game. I stress again, to anyone not particularly you, to NOT hate on the person.


    Go to about 6 hours and 50 minutes in.

    https://kick.com/video/3fc0ad18-5237-42f1-bfaa-9d1948e456b4