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The problem i see with the new DS change
As we know; the new DS is to stop killers from immediately going after the injured survivors once their off the hook.
Not only that; but once the survivor uses the DS, another survivor becomes the obsession, allowing multiple survivors to use DS in a single match.
This is the problem i have; I know it's suppose to stop tunneling and all; but at the same time i don't understand why people are trying so hard to get rid of tunneling?
Think about it, Since time is limited for the killer already; wouldn't it be wise or more logical to go after the survivors who is already almost dead? Not fiddle around and go after a full health survivor?
You may disagree with me on this; but when you look at it from the killers perspective, Your now dealing with 4 DS each match, not only that; but now your time is even more limited now because of your delay from those strikes, which brings up faster generator completion times.
since every survivor will be running it; you'll be forced to go after a new survivor after each hook now, so you wont deal with every strike.
I dont know; i just feel like its much more plausible to get rid of survivors as quickly as possible, rather then to delay your objective so the other side can get through their objectives much more easily :/
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It's not Ideal but it's the best place DS will probably ever be, Thanks to the new stun time you can maybe counter it with Enduring if you're quick enough.
I'm on the same boat, I agree that Tunneling is an effective way for killers to get survivors out of the game and sometimes is necessary with how fast gens can be completed but at the same time I acknowledge that it's not fun for the survivor to be constantly hooked.
It's the downside of a game like this, The Fun one side gets comes at the expense of the other side.
By the way It's going to be hell for killers end game if survivors are smart enough to save it till then, It's basically a free escape for the team when combined with BT if the gates are open.
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1. U can use DS after the rework no matter if you are the obsession or not
2. Ur issue is not DS beeing reworked to a (imo) much healthier perk, your issue is just that you can't tunnel efficient anymore
Post edited by HavelmomDaS1 on5 -
Tunneling may be cool on the killer end but think of how survivors feel about it.
If you get tunneled the only fun you'll have is running the killer. In most cases you just get killed and lose out on so many possible bloodpoints which survivors already gain less of.
Tunneling shouldn't be normalized and I'm glad they're encouraging killers to not tunnel by giving them a new fear
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the only problem with tunneling is that it doesn't have a counter, with the next patch it will get one.
this is the reason why people are trying to get rid of it. Nobody likes uncounterable mechanics.
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You know you don't have to tunnel to win right? It's just a cheap cop-out. Sure it's "available" to do, therefor it's technically a strategy, but it's a bad one. You aren't applying pressure to anyone besides that one survivor when you tunnel. You need pressure on everyone. DS is a perfect perk now, because it punishes people that use tunneling as a ""strategy"".
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I agree ! lets just not change it :)
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I rarely see BT going off in my games so upcoming DS change is buff to my play style.
Overall very good change for health of the game, but f Enduring reduces the stun duration then you can still keep tunneling with ease.
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You have to deal with 4x DS now. The difference is once the changes go through you can actually get a hook instead of wasting a chase. Slug the unhooked and chase the rescuer. Make another survivor come and pick them up.
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I did that when I was first starting out because I wanted to spread the "love". Bit since the rank rework tunneling has been rewarding and the sooner you knock a player out of the game that is a permanent loss in efficiency for the others. Slow killers can't pressure everyone effectively only ones like nurse, billy, and spirit can.
Though if the survivor I caught is hooked twice in a short period of time I tend to ignore them and look for others until late game.
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Cutting down on tunnelling and camping prolongs the game.
Look at it this way, the devs want the game to be fun for both sides, they don't want someone being taken out with 1k bloodpoints and having a bad experience.
You should also want longer games as these bring in the possibility of more objectives being added so camping and tunnelling shouldn't be needed.
I see it as future plan so the matches are more engaging for both sides, at least it's not a punishment as they are still giving you a choice.
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Honestly, DS and NOED should just be removed permanently, that would be a dream come true.
If not that, let's have a month or something starting from a rank reset, where DS and NOED are removed, and see how it effects everything. Would love to find out. Not permanently, just to test.
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Rank rework? The previous system geared you more towards tunneling than this one. You can pip in the current system without killing anyone. The previous you could hook every survivor twice and only black pip.
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If you, as a survivor, have bonobos as teammates, that unhook you in front of the killer, well, it sucks to be you, but why should I, the killer, be punished for it? Why should I be punished for the survivors' stupid plays? If a survivor gets unhooked and the killer is near the hook for whatever reason, it makes sense for them to go for the injured person. It's not toxic, it's the most efficient way to actually kill someone. If you keep switching targets the whole match, you will get to the point where there's only 1 gen left and all 4 survivors are still alive. If the killer gets punished for doing their job efficiently, then the same should apply to the survivors: if a gen pops within 2 minutes from the start of the game, all the survivors get slowed to 0% movement speed, their auras revealed for 5 minutes and suffer from the exposed status effect, rinse and repeat every time a generator is completed within 4 minutes from the last. What? It doesn't make sense, you say? Well, neither BT, i-frames during the unhook animation and DS do.
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Thats the problem; not all killers can apply pressure to everyone like nurse and billy; when your dealing with a 4 man claudette swf; all caring SC, SB, purple items and so on; its rather difficult to apply pressure even when your meaning to?
Your basically saying that killers should be punished for doing their objective?
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At the end of the day you dont need a 4k every game. Just like how survivors shouldn't think they can escape every game.
Learn to adapt, not tunnel and play your best. Doing things like chasing and hooking also help you rank up.
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How about incentivizing killers not to tunnel by actually giving them a reason to not tunnel instead of introducing another must-have free escape perk that survivors have plenty of right now?
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But their shouldn't be anything that makes killers fear something, ever.
I mean you might as well give every survivor a loaded gun, and have them kill the killer.
The main concept and purpose of this game, was to make survivors feel defenseless and the killers powerful, not the other way around.
Ever since release, killers have always got the crappy end of the stick, from 4 man swf, to gen rushing, etc, etc.
I mean even the devs at one point where mocking the way killers were back then.
Hell the title itself says "Dead by daylight" not "Escape by daylight"
But with all these add ons, perks and so on, it's become nothing more then a chase, tbag and escape sort of game...
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You can still tunnel. Either.. use Enduring, wait out the 60 seconds before picking up, eat the stun, or hope they miss their skill check. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the devs wanting to discourage unfun play styles, though.
I guess now you'll have more reason to hard camp, though. 😉
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Well if they arent incentivizing killers to not tunnel this is a solution to a problem that makes survivor terrible to play. Especially solo.
And we can't really talk about addons and items on the survivor end when items like judiths tombstone and iridescent heads exist. Also Moris. In fact both survivor and killer items/addons are meant to be powerful and abused.
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You can't use 'it's wise and logical' as an excuse not to discourage it. In another universe, survivors can find a knife in a chest and stab the killer and kill him, but it would be very boring to play against, and would be much more powerful than other strategies. Sure, it would be logical to kill a killer, doesn't make it suited to the game
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You say you're now dealing with 4 DS's per match, but in my eyes, you're dealing with one, as long as you don't instantly down the unhooked survivor every time
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its just a question of fair play weather you are going to tunnel or not.
i personally dont really do it, but i know there are a lot of players actively doing it.
here is the reason on why everyone wants to get rid of tunneling, even though it is, tecnically speaking, just the killer playing optimally: survivors are also just players who want to have fun in a game. by tunneling them down, you basically take out any fun aspect for them and they will also most certainly lose thanks to that. just imagine yourself playing survivor, you spawn walk 5m and already hear the heartbeat, as the killer already spotted you and then proceeds to tunnel you until you die. its simply no fun.
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Except it is very counterable. BT, We'll Make It, and bodyblocking all counter it.
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here is the reason why everyone wants to slow down genprogression and nerf SWF or give killers better tools for pressuring, even though it is, technically speaking, just the way of playing survivor optimally: killers are also just players who want to have fun in a game. By genrushing with SWF coordination, you basically take out any fun aspect for them and they will also most certainly lose thanks to that. Just imagine yourself playing killer, you spawn, chase 20 seconds and already hear the first 3 gens pop as the survivors know you're already chasing somebody else and proceed to just genrush until the gates are open because they know when to do gens. It's simply no fun.
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Man; I'm starting to notice that no matter what the devs do; neither side finds it fun or good?
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Here's the thing. Killers would significantly become stronger right now if nobody were allowed to use perks in the first place. See where the problem is in this game? Most survivor perks are on par with killer perks already or heck, even better and much less situational. Killers don't have a ######### ton of perks that down people for them.
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Because just like it isn't fun to have all your work thrown out the window by current DS after your first chase, it isn't fun to be tunneled to death just because the killer happened to see/hook you first.
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Honestly, just pick enduring and play like you always do. At least enduring now is an actual counter since the stun time got reduced
Personally I hate being forced to pick certain perks, so I will slugg a lot mroe than I used to. But thats not a big deal for me, its the survivors that will be annoyed by that, not my problem =)
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And why should the unhooked survivor be automatically punished with zero chance of retaliation just because his “teammate” is an idiot? If this game was balanced for 100% team-based play (swf), then I’d agree, but it’s not. In solo play, you don’t get to choose when to be saved and rely completely on foreign morons.
You’re also not being “punished” by the new DS. Simply slug the injured and chase the unhooker and you’re good. Or take a DS to the face, quit bitching, and continue on the chase. You currently are forced to take a DS with no counterplay (no, dribbling is not actual counterplay). At least this change lets you choose what happens.
I think you killer mains ought to play both sides and then you’d figure out why tunneling (and other things on both sides) is an issue.
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Ah, well, if you aren't tunneled and mori'd you'll be camped. Either way you still die.
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Your opening post is spot on.
The issue is that the Devs only care about the survivors "fun".
When the meme pops up that "everyone should have fun" that excludes the killer.
Everyone = every survivor.
Killer need to remove player from the team to get an edge, but the Devs support the delusional idea that every survivor has some sort of "right" to participate in the match for a certain amount of time and shouldn't be eliminated "to early" no matter how bad they play or how good the killer played.
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If you can't tunnel, you can always camp.
;3
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There are no good killer mains who don't play a lot of survivor too. It is usually the survivor mains that have very one sided wiev. Got caught as survivor? Your fault, deal with it. Got outplayed as killer? Your fault most of the times, deal with it. Problem is ds punishes killer for chasing survivor. Getting stabbed 4 times and then tbagged at gate is not outplay, its broken mechanic. Compare this to god tier nurse, but nurse actually requires skill. The change makes it way better. If you hook and go hunting you can't get stabbed.
You guys are way too entitled, both sides. You want to escape? Earn it, play smart and efficient. If all you can do is looping and instasaving you deserve to loose.
Want kills? Earn them, pressure survivors off gens and hook/slug efficiently. Learn how to counter loops.
Also don't forget its killers choice to camp or not to camp. If you bm, what do you expect? All there is to camping is just to punish killer leaving him with 1 hook.
Ps: stealth beats even doctor yet you still refuse to adapt. Pay for it if youre so stubborn
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*thumbup*
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4 Ds per match? Sound like rancor with enduring will be meta.
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@Okuu46 I propose that the reason the developers have started promoting anti-tunnel gameplay due to a new upcoming perk. This new perk is called "Corrupt Intervention" may actually help killers make games longer then they are now if implemented correctly. Currently, members of the community have predicted that at tier 3 this perk will block the three farthest generators for up to 2 minutes. If this holds true then I see no problem with discouraging tunneling as it's no longer so essential to remove a survivor from the game (unless you run Dying Light, which is getting gutted thanks to new DS).
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If you don't tunnel you need none of those. Just abuse bbq and pressure them to death.
Edit: Of course if they keep it just as antitunnel perk, which i doubt bcoz of all the crybabies
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Oh good grief, you just need to GIT GUD.
Now if the devs only cared about survivors fun then there'd have been ZERO as in ZERO none nada zilch nerfs to survivors.
There'd have been ZERO nada zip zero zilch buffs to killers, no changes to maps to make them more killer friendly.
Infinites would never have been removed.
Sabo would've never been touched.
Cow Tree would never have been nerfed.
Pallets would never have been reduced.
The exhaustion changes would never have been done.
The healing changes would never have come.
Windows would never have been nerfed.
Shrimp Boat would never have been moved.
Crow Bombs would never have been implemented.
Minimum hooks and minimum distances between hooks would never have happened.
Moon offerings would still be in the game.
Backwater swamp would still have lots of tall grass.
Jungle gyms would still be more plentiful.
Thompson house would never have gotten a hook upstairs.
Macmillan Estates Groaning Warehouse would still be an infinite looping spot.
Maps would never have been made brighter to make it easier on killers.
The following killer reworks would never have happened - Trapper, Hag, Wraith, and soon to be Freddy.
That's just a small portion of the changes but according to you those changes obviously never happened because the devs only care about the survivors fun.
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mmmm... You can still tunnel.... The big question is.. If that survivor is running DS...
So take enduring now if you are a tunneler... Cause all you do is pick them up after you hit them back down after being unhooked and burn out their DS... chase them down again and hook them again.. done... What is the difference if you had to chase them after being unhooked or letting them burn their DS after being unhooked and tunneling them again..
Seems allot like the same thing to me. I don't see the issue. Cause you have to waste a few more seconds to burn the DS?
Why not hit the unhooked down... Then go after the unhooker... 2 people not on a gen... Then the 3rd has to get off a gen and go for and heal the other off the floor.
So what is the issue again?
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Tunneling was never easy so its fine
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I think the queues made those changes a requirement. You can't sell the bully simulator game when 4 man bully groups have to wait 30 minutes for a match. They are changing what they can to pacify the complaints while absolutely avoiding touching SWF. None of those changes make SWF any less broken with VOIP.
The infinite one you listed is idiotic gameplay. Do you really believe this game had a future when streams show an infinite loop as gameplay? I mean seriously? I'm surprised anyone played during that time. It's akin to tic tac toe tournament edition. I came afterwards but watched old streams with it. I would question the intelligence of anyone that did that for hours on end. Sorry, not sorry.
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Killers that are good don't typically need to tunnel survivors off hooks, and honestly it's more beneficial if you don't. Watch streamers that tend to not tunnel off hooks and you'll see what I mean.
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Killers that are "good" on streams are typically showing videos of them owning boosted survivors. I find much more competition in mid tier ranks than they provide. I mean you see videos of rank 1 survivors that run in straight lines away as they hear a Nurse blinking.
Versus good survivors many of those "good" killers tunnel and proximity camp or play one of the killers that has range and map presence to avoid needing to do so. They are also almost always using their best addons they saved while not playing on stream for a more impressive outcome whereas most killers on any given game are playing more budget oriented.
There are certainly exceptional players but the notion the killers have to meet that bar while survivors are exempt from having their gameplay balanced by 4 man pro swf squads is laughable. I've also seen one of the best killers in this community blow off trying to win against one of the best survivor squads because they weren't their to "have fun". The reality is he knew it didn't matter whether he tried or not they were going to wreck him because they are broken as a group.
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I don't think I can even begin to say this better.
Just get good. If you tunnel you screw yourself over anyway
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As someone who mainly plays Killer, I have absolutely no problem with the current state of this perk but the new changes seem like they will make it one. Right now, it's really easy to handle an obsession using Decisive Strike by either juggling them or leaving them on the ground for their teammates to come flocking around and allowing you to get at least one hook.
It's also easy to predict what someone will do after hitting you with a DS, for example if everyone else is hooked and they're the last one to pick up. Now, you'll have absolutely no way to prepare and it'll just become a "press X to win" perk absolutely everyone with a credit card or a few shards can acquire.
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