Your Thoughts on STBFL?
Do you think this perk is perfectly fine or needs some changes? What is your thoughts on this perk?
For me only one change i would put into it:
M2 hits on obsession also removes stacks. But for get stacks, you will still need m1 hits on other survivors.
This change won't hurt m1 killers and perk is fine on them already. But this perk is kinda so strong on some killers and that change will address this issue.
Comments
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It's fine as it is. Why is it an "issue" that some killers who arnt even high tier synergize with it? Why we trying to nerf Pig and Demogorgan?
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Nerf to 6 or 7 stacks and let the obsession see other people in chase so they know the perk is in play and come bodyblock. That's all. Return it to how good it was before 6.1.0 and help solos.
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Because it works like 10 stacks after killer base-kit buffed. And some killers can keep stacks because their power allows to do this. Why m1 killers can't?
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Most of M2 killers your talking about don't bother with this perk since they need M1 hits to gain stacks to begin with. Typically their M2 hits are just better. Why bother getting STBFL stacks on Billy when I can just chainsaw everyone? This would only end up affecting a limited number of killers like Pig and Demo. Those killers are not problematic.
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they originally had this perk just give you flat boost to reduce cooldown but they changed it because there was a point in time where they unintentionally gave killer like 60% stacking cooldown reduction and it was perceived as too strong so they rework the perk to have a drawback to limit its effectiveness. the perk is design to help m1 killer deal with health-state bodyblocking but it has drawback.... of getting bodyblocked. It is just kinda weird and outdated design.
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I'd make it a default game mechanic.
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It’s been overtuned since 6.1.0 imo and it’s also too effective for camping when it should be a chase perk.
I think tokens should be lost anytime the obsession loses a health state (not just m1s) and it should be reduced to 4% per token for a maximum reduction of 32% to basically offset the base cooldown reduction and return it to be more like how it was before because the perk definitely did not need the indirect buff.
As for concerns such as “this hurts weak killers like Pig”, they need changes regardless. If STBFL is helping them that much, that issue should be exposed so those weaker killers can get proper buffs.
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Should be disabled in end game.
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I agree with everything you wrote here.
Weak killers should be buffed, so they can be free to use whatever perks they want.
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This perk is almost entirely run by those weaker killers though. Stronger killers like Nurse can't get stacks without doing a normal M1. The strongest killer you'd be hitting with a nerf to this perk is would be Deathslinger, who can PARTIALLY offset the downside. I would understand it if this was a great perk for more high tiered killers, but it's not and your change is ONLY going to affect handful of low or mid tier killers.
Sidenote... your idea would also unintentionally cause stacks to be lost all over the place. Survivors lose health states from stepping in trappers traps for example. Should the killer lose stacks for a blind survivor on the other end of the map? Or the Pig addon that injures survivors if they miss a skillcheck on boxes. Should Pig lose stacks? Or... anytime plot twist is used at all.
Here's a video of a pair farming autodidact tokens using plot twist. Should the killer be hemorrhaging their STBFL stacks?
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Might need a small tone down, but i think the perk is mostly fine
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Hello irony, my old friend.
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Should be basekit on Trapper and Pig. It's an ok perk in general.
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i think it should be 6 stacks total (or whatever the stack difference is now with the basekit hit recover buff), because basekit hit recovery speed was an indirect buff to stfbl because it technically now makes it so you can have 8+ stacks, it didn't need that imho, the change for killer basekit was a good change, i just don't enjoy the fact it made stbfl better. other than that there's not much i could ask for, i don't think stbfl is op or anything, i'm well aware stacks don't just spawn and you have to actually use some brain power to keep decently high stacks (unless obsession is hiding in a corner/you're ignoring them, then that's just a stack cakewalk), but i just think it could use a small tweak that just makes it as it was before, if it doesn't happen i won't be shedding tears because i don't see stbfl enough to care.
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I think its fine as it is.
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My biggest gripe is the efficiency of tunneling off hook with it. This wasn't as problematic when a lot of survivors were running Decisive Strike as you'd have your protection after the down. Now your protection off hook is in the form of the endurance effect. You can hit a survivor off hook 2 times pretty quickly with 4+ tokens.
I'd love to see the most recently unhooked survivor become the obsession to dissuade targeting the same survivor.
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I like when killers run it, immediately turbotunnel out their obsession, then complain about how survivors are just so uncatcheable.
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STBFL is not weak but its far from unfair. The only killers that make good use of it are mid tier or downright weak. This nerf will do nothing for the high tiers but will weaken Demo and Slinger.
The perk already has plenty of counter play as it is. Don't give free hits. Loop well and delay hits in chase as much as possible.Go in to a locker if you are about to be downed (if possible) or try to force a grab. Down yourself with Plot Twist. And take aggro/hits as the obsession if you notice the perk.
Side note but seeing people in these forums defend Adrenaline recently but ask for a B tier Killer perk to be nerfed is pretty funny.
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Whether STBFL is nerfed or not, the reason it’s not as impactful on some of the stronger killers is not because of their strength but simply because of the nature of their power and relying more on special attacks (and in the case of Nurse, being almost completely dependent on them). Trickster for example isn’t a very strong killer in most situations but STBFL isn’t a good pick on him since he primarily deals damage with knives.
As for the potential loss of stacks from outside events like Plot Twist and bear traps, I don’t think it’s a big deal and don’t think it would be common enough to significantly weaken the perk overall. There are also other perks that benefit from these outside events, eg. Blood Favor can activate and Remember Me can gain tokens from survivors losing health states to traps or even from FTP or Plot Twist. This isn’t any different really. If I turn out to be wrong and this becomes too common, it could be changed to losing tokens on basic attacks or any special attack coming directly from the killer (and not outside events), like how Third Seal currently works.
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It's an above average perk that acts as a catch up mechanic for weaker killers. You'll never see it on the best killers like Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Artist, Plague, Wesker and mostly on lower tier killers like Clown, Trapper and Pig. In this sense I think it's one of the healthier perks in the game to keep lower tier killer competitive.
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save is fine! it only a problem when the killer camping with 4 to 5 stacks or more and that should be far less likely after the anti camp mechanic go through anyway
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I think the perk is fine. Maybe they can nerf it to 6 max stacks but that’s the only nerf I’d give.
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It's probably a bit overtuned, but I hardly consider it a concern.
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Perk is absolutely fine.
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Bringing up Trickster is kind of odd. Like you said, he's not a good candidate for the perk. We should probably talk about perks actually USED by certain killers rather than bring up killers who never use them. The perk is not making strong killers stronger, but rather giving low and mid tier killers help. These are the only killers being affected by a STBFL nerf. Why is it so important to nerf Pig, lol?
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What is stbfl?
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Save the Best for Last - Perk from Myers.
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It's fine as it is, it gives some of the weaker m1 killers a chance to make a comeback if they're against a swf
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Unpopular opinion: Make it a base mechanic.
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The largest problem with STBFL, is that the Obsession isn't given enough info as to why their teammates are dying so quick. It is too much of a burder for the Obssession to take hits and block hooks while their teammate is being carried. Then once the stacks are so high, they can't meaningfully lower the stacks.
Arguably, it should be sidegraded, and expose the Obsession at 8 stacks, but if they Obsession is downed by the Killer, the Killer loses the stacks. This would keep stacks more manageable for most players, and the Killer could tactically chase and lose some stacks to keep them in the 4-7 range. This would also lean into the idea that you truly are saving the best (an exposed hit on the Obsession) for last (at 8 stacks only).
Alternatively when the Killer gains a STBFL stack, the Obsession and Killer can see each other for 3-5s. This way the Obsession knows a stack is gained, and can interfere to keep them low, or the Killer can catch the Survivor with their pants down. It could also be an escalation of threats, the aura revealing Killer at 2+ stacks, Obsession Survivor revealed at 4+, something else at 6+ (in favor of Killer), and Obsession exposed at 8.
Overall though I'd be perfectly fine with STBFL not being changed. It is a strong perk in very specific conditions, and that is only for normal M1 Killers. Any of the stronger to oppressive Killers can't get much use out of it (other than Spirit, but Phase hits should be Special Attacks), so it is in a good place. Like I said in the parenthetical, the problem is with specific Killers, not the perk itself.
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Why nerf a perk that keeps weaker killers in the game and does little for stronger killers?
You focus on the wrong end of the tier list.
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It wouldn't nerf demo. It would actually make the greater player base of demos better because actively not using m2s except for to zone for an M1 and hit obsession (what most stbfl demos do) makes you bad at the killer. Demo literally has a medium range huntress hatchet with him as the hatchet as a power and people just don't use it when they have stbfl. Use your M2 and you'll do infinitely better and be a stronger demo. Pig is just an M1 killer. Im fine with stbfl on m1s as they are pretty weak in most cases and the little help stbfl provides is useful to them. But on M2 killers like demo, Wesker, and nemesis using stbfl cause people to use their powers less actively making them worse at the killer
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If you are bad at the killer, you are bad at the killer. But nerfing one of a killer's best perks is not a buff to them. With 8 stacks a Demogorgon can do a whole lot more than just zone someone and go for the M1. If they don't, then that's a skill issue.
Also, it is absolutely overrated on Wesker. But again, it doesn't make people worse at the killer. If they want to play a killer in a specific way, then they are allowed to do that even if it's by far not the best option to play them. They will learn that eventually or stay bad.
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Imagine that we have reached such a point that the survivors are completely satisfied with mft (absolutely broken op perk) and at the same time they cry because of stbfl (a perk that only helps weak m1 killers)
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One of the few actually good chase perks when most are bad and we want to nerf that one too?
No, the perk is fine.
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STBFL? It is by far the best killer perk in the game right now. Overtuned. Deserving of a nerf.
The fact that it makes camping so much easier is a crutch. Mixed with destroying survivors in chases (especially when they run into a wall, lose distance, etc).
I am going to keep using it til they balance it out.
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Killers have 2 stacks cool down weapon basekit already. Just decrease the maximum stacks to 6. To bring the maximum cool down back to old days.
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side note... we use way too many combination of letters for stuff.
stbfl, dh, mft, wglf, ds, bbq, etc
sometimes you just have no f*ing idea what people are talking about
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I remind you that in the old days no one played killer because they were too weak
the killers were given bonuses so that at least someone started playing for the killers and the line of survivors was not 30 minutes
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it looks like: survivors can already see each other so remove the new hud
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Why are you or your teammates unhooking while being chased by the killer?
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That's not how math works.
Old wipe animation was 3 seconds.
STBFL is 5% per stack.
STBFL with 3 second wipe animation = 3 - (3 * 0.4) = 1.8 second wipe animation
STBFL with 2.7 second wipe animation = 2.7 - (2.7 * 0.4) - 1.62 second wipe animation.
Your proposal to make it 6 stacks = 2.7 - (2.7 * 0.3) = 1.89 second wipe animation.
Strictly you would be nerfing it to be worse than it was before the basekit changes to the wipe animation.
On that note though.
Are we really living in a world where people are complaining about STBFL? Like, the one thing that keeps m1 killers able to deal with some of the ridiculous things in the game. You need to stop asking to nerf things that don't affect nurse spirit and blight when they aren't a problem.
Why are you trying to nerf pig and demogorgon and legion?
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STBFL saves significantly more time to catch a survivor holding W than MFT provides a survivor. Interesting how only one of them has been whined about endlessly over the last month.
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Honestly it would be a nerf to Demo more than Pig. Pig's Ambush is really bad, and using it to save STBFL tokens can sometimes be impossible unless you are in a complete deadzone. Maintaining stacks is significantly easier with Demo.
I do think though, it should be changed a tiny bit, the values should be changed to what it was before Patch 6.1.0 by reducing the total amount of tokens by 2, BUT, you only lose 1 token perk Obsession you hit, which makes the perk a lot easier to maintain, since you lose 1/3 of your tokens on downing the Obsession instead of 1/2.
I think it would be a fair trade-off, and the perk would still be really good.
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Imo STBFL on like Demo makes demo weaker, so making those ppl be interacting more with the M2 power of their Killer and further down the road they get stronger with that killer. Im all for it
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Okay okay, increase the stacks to 10, hope you happy and sleep well.
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Your implying that people are missing out on doing any damage at all because they don't use shred at all on 3 survivors. This is false... STBFL incentivizes doing an M1 whenever possible on those survivors, but if an M1 is not available, shred I'd still on the table. Nerfing a perk used by Demo is NOT a buff to Demo.
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Ya'll seem to forget most M2 hits are unwieldy in some way. Demo's shred effectively stuns you, Pigs dash is easy to force a time out on, Billy's chainsaw greatly restricts turning. Nemisis' tentacle requires 3 hits. The only killer without an "unwieldy" m2 is Nurse, and she doesn't use M1 anyway so it doesnt matter on her.
It's up to the obsession to dodge M2's, which should be easier than M1's most of the time unless the obsession gets themselves into a position where they can't dodge.
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You do know that some killers like to stay near the hook right?
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Why are you unhooking against killers who are camping? That is quite literally the reason camping works. Do gens instead, it takes a full 2 minutes to die on hook, plenty of time for the other 3 of you to get 4-5 gens done.
Even if the killer immediately camped their first hook, the first hook should have taken them at least 45 seconds to do, and that's if the person is bad at chase. So of the 450 seconds of gen progress needed, your team should have around 135 seconds of progress. Let's be generous and assume you only have 100 seconds of progress. Thats 350 seconds left. Even if it takes you 30 seconds to realize the killer is camping, and another 15 to find a gen. 2 of your teammates will be on a gen for that full 30 + 15 seconds, and you'll be on one for 75 more before they die. That amounts to 315 seconds of progress on gens. Meaning you'll have to complete 35 seconds of a gen with 3 people. Which is very very doable.
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