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Tunneling

BaByLLIKa1337
BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17
edited July 2023 in General Discussions

Literally quote from developer update: "Our studies (unsurprisingly) found that your odds of escaping drop significantly when you remove even one Survivor from the trial – who would have guessed?". Yet they still dont do anything to prevent tunneling...


P.S. if you're playing mostly killer dont leave any comments, first go play ~10 matches as survivor, get your teammate or you tunneled 4/5 games and then you'll see how "fine" tunneling is.


Edit: I mean hard tunneling, when killer from the start of the game goes after 1 survivor even if 0 gens have been done or its a top tier killers, im fine with tunneling when 2-3 gens pop and killer still have 0 kills

Post edited by BaByLLIKa1337 on

Comments

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17
    edited July 2023

    Surely you cant just hit unhooked survivor to get rid of 3 things that you mentioned and surely current DS is not garbage :Clueless:

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    I play both survivor and killers and i never tunnel from the start of the game

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    Surely you cant just hit unhooked survivor to get rid of 3 things that you mentioned and surely you can get distance with current DS :Clueless:

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 2,101

    So if we can get the killer to spend 3+ gens worth of time tunneling us using the tools given to us, does that mean they don't exist?

    Also what would you propose they do to "prevent" tunneling?

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    Surely you cant just hit unhooked survivor to get rid of 3 things that you mentioned and surely you can get distance with current DS :Clueless:

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,163
    edited July 2023

    That is really a quote? Really???

    Bwuahahahahahahahaha

    That has to be a joke 🤣

    "Studies" "who would have guessed"

    No one, except the whole playerbasee? For years?

    Post edited by burt0r on
  • UnavailableName
    UnavailableName Member Posts: 298
    • when unhooked, the survivor is totally healed + has a 30 seconds BT base kit -> BT base kit is removed for any action done by the survivor
    • rebalance the maps (that killers can really apply pressure)
    • nerf OP perks on both sides

    Well anyway, perks have become out of control too, devs have released so many perks that now the game is a mix of bad ideas stacking together giving the possibility to get extremely OP build on both sides. There is no sense anymore in this game.

  • Xxjwaynexx
    Xxjwaynexx Member Posts: 343

    Bro efficiency isn't constrained by morality, tunneling is a moral problem my guy. It is in fact way more efficient to tunnel the weak survivor out especially the amount of times I've seen them get unhooked and use their bt to body block for the unhooker, or the unhooker to hide and let them be farmed. If an unhook action occurs I know for a solid fact where 2 out of the 4 people are with one already being down a health state and mostly both out of position probably healing under it, is it morale to go back to said hook, depends on the players morales. Is it efficient, you bet your ass it is. In my experience good loopers don't get tunneled because they purposely waste so much of the killers time in chase, good loopers know that eventually they will go down and it's about how long you can keep the charade up for your team to do gens. A solid 4 man swf who can all loop and not do dumb ######### will win 7/10 matches.

  • DrDucky
    DrDucky Member Posts: 675

    Hardcore tunnelling at the start of the match is not a smart thing if the team are doing gens.

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17
    edited July 2023

    @nars sorry for the 3x reply, my comments were getting blocked to go through review, only noticed after 3rd comment

    Post edited by BaByLLIKa1337 on
  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    Ah right, i forgot that you go against comp swf every single match and not just some 4 soloq's that are just trying to have some fun. my bad my bad

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Thats exact to what I think about average skilled killers. And thats the most beautiful thing about MMR: keep their kill rate the same no matter how hard they try.

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    Like I said, if killer really wants to tunnel you no perks will save you, regarding what devs should do, well, at least bring back 5 second ds and read some anti-tunneling suggestions on their own forum, im sure there are plenty of really good ideas

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,475

    There's already a bunch of anti-tunnel in the game though. If a survivor doesn't want to or isn't skilled enough to use the many options they have, that's a skill issue.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,684

    You just said it though, if a killer is dead set on tunneling... it's gonna happen. Buffing DS isn't gonna change that. Survivors already have tons of anti-tunnel perks. You said the devs don't do anything to prevent tunneling, which isn't true. Are MORE perks your answer?

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 2,101

    I really dont think that first idea would work so well...

    The second point won't stop tunneling if the killer really wants to tunnel.

    and the third is more a tangent, but again the above applies here too.

  • Luckyz17
    Luckyz17 Member Posts: 34

    The largest issue I see if we look at points based is a killer does not have to do as much as a survivor to get the same amount of points. Even on a new killer and learning their kit.

    I hooked 3 times, 0 kills, and still got more points in a game tonight than the survivors did.

    Did they gen rush? Yes.. but I chased long enough, damaged them enough times, and broke enough pallets and gens to gain points/single pip.

    Ranking up as a killer is also unbelievably easier than survivor. I think there is such a heavy bias with killer heavy hand in this game since the Demo at PAX: East when I first saw and played this game. Everyone told said devs at the con about how it seemed there was not enough to help a survivor.... survive. And its actually hilarious to see the state of the game hasnt changed no matter how many times I come back.

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    Back when DS was 5 seconds there was a lot, A LOT less tunneling, and there wasnt even base kit bt or anything like

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 891

    Tunneling is the only way to win against good teams who sit on gens. I've tried so many times to play fair and left the tunnel-out alone, only to be punished by those teams.

    But in some games it's kinda unnecessary and i'd rather have a game with everyone being happy and getting some BP than finish the game at 4 gens left (with 2 DCs). You learn over time when to tunnel and when not.

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    truly smart words, if only all killers would think like that :sadge:

  • bla
    bla Member Posts: 2
    edited August 2023

    I don’t know how many comments I’ve read lately about this subject, but something needs to be done about tunneling it’s not an affective method of stopping survivors from escaping been happening all day today, for example my last match I was in huntress found me on a gen, I ran she got a good hatchet hooked me, while 2 others are doing gens, I get unhooked working my way to a gen slowly she comes and finds me, while others are still working on more gens, she downs me and hooks me again, get taken off hook run away use plot twist, get up and team is just about to pop last gen, she scatters them while I make my way over to help in any way I can, they pop gen while I’m getting over there, I turn towards the gate to get it open, she downs teammate then proceeds to let them alone comes looking for me chases me a moment, downs and hooks me while the others get the teammate up and escape, plz someone tell me how that is a effective strat, never have thought to complain or post about it before as it’s not been that bad at least imo, yeah you’d get a few in a day but that would be acceptable for the other good matches you would have escape or not, but had left the game awhile trying different games and decided to come back to play once more and it’s like all the time now, don’t know what happened but things need to change when it comes to tunneling or I believe at least it’ll kill dbd especially with other things in the same concept of dbd coming out

  • thisislastyearsmodel
    thisislastyearsmodel Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 636

    How many games are you actually playing where you're tunneled from the moment the killer sees you until you die on your third hook?

    This feels like the survivor equivalent of killers who complain about 4-man bully squads as if they're playing against them every match.

  • thisislastyearsmodel
    thisislastyearsmodel Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 636

    Maybe killers wouldn't feel the need to tunnel so much if we nerfed broken survivor perks, fixed maps, and made it so all 30 killers are viable instead of only 5.

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
    edited August 2023

    Tunneling still not being addressed is just more proof the developers don't play the game or at least soloQ.

  • Mtom912
    Mtom912 Member Posts: 22

    it's fine, i want to get tunnelled, being chased is the fun part of the game, i don't want to hold a button all game. Even if it's a killer that's not fun in chase then i get to die first and go next and find a killer i like versing lol

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,487

    Preface: I mostly main killer, but also have two groups with whom I run the Fog, so my split is about 65/35

    The thing is this: I know how awful the feeling is to get mercilessly tunneled at 5 gens with no option. So my standard MO as killer was to play fair and ignore the unhooked survivor etc. until 3 gens got done. But guess what? Due to the current meta and mostly destroyed gen regression with no compensation to the survivors ability to slam gens, I had loads of games were 3 gens popped at the end of the first chase, or worst: I picked the god looper and got chased for 3 gens.

    What are you got to do in such a situation? Still ignore the only survivor with 1 hook stage and go for someone else? Roll over and die? Stand in a corner and sulk while the survivors go full on ego "lol gg eeeeeeeeez. Roll. You so bad lol"?

    Back in the days I could go soft at the start and then shift gears once things got spicy. That's basically impossible, because now not only the good SWF groups split up on gens, even soloQ survivors know that this strategy is king and so if only two gens pop after the first chase, that's quite the reason to feel relieved. But as the killer you can't slack at all, unless you are against potatos.

    I would really love to not need to tunnel, bif frankly, if you hit 1 gen remaining with 4 survivors, you lost the game. You can't possible defend a 3 gen against 4 healthy survivors, but with often 3 gens popping after the first chase, you can't turn it 3 vs 1 without hard-core tunneling. The games were I get the ball rolling fast are the most fun, for me. I interrupt a gen with 3 survivors on it, down one, hook and chase another and then it's hook and trade and hook while defending that gen and I don't need to tunnel. But this kinda games have a completely different dynamic due to the altered start.

    And of course, I know that sadly most players are lazy. The situation was somewhat like this pre 6.1, but with survivors extremely safe due to several redundant safety nets. After 6.1 that was taken away and survivors tanked. I felt bad for them and slacked and relaxed my stance, but as we all know, a lot of killers, a lot of them probably ex survivor mains, lashed out viciously and with glee, tunneling and bullying with little opposition even though they didn't need to. And then survivors adapted, learned to split up and push gens with no looking left or right, especially after losing CoH as a side objective.

    And now we have come full circle, with me having to play like a villain or face ridicule and shame. You can't change any aspect of this game without it making waves and having unforseen consequences, stuff is connected in weird ways.

    I think Sadako and Pinhead shows how it's done: killers need to bring their own side objective with them. If you force to do something or else, it slows down the game enough that you can have again longer then 5min matches. We just don't need to be able to mori every survivor at 5 gens ^_-

  • VirtuaTyKing
    VirtuaTyKing Member Posts: 467
    edited August 2023

    Besides the perks to at the very least slow down a tunnel. Teams can take hits to make it even harder. I have done this myself in a soloq so it's not like you need to be in a swf to do it.

    If they bring forced penance then good luck with that. Everytime I bring it though it gets no use.

    I wouldn't say I'm a hard tunneler so that might be why. I don't sweat like I used to as the game can be so unfair it's not worth the trouble.

  • bla
    bla Member Posts: 2
    edited August 2023

    Honestly don’t keep track of how many times it happens to me or not, it’s more of the question of how to affective, I see it happen a lot to teammates I get in with or me, and as above it happens at least the same way killer downs and hooks someone while the rest do gens, the person gets off hook, takes killler awhile to find them agains while the rest continue gens, killer downs and hooks the person again, 1 gen remains killer hunts person down and hooks them, last gen gets popped and 3 escape, the question I guess at the end of the day for me is how that’s affective, I personally don’t understand it, I read threads on how it’s viable, but in the things I see it really isn’t just trying to for the most part wrap my brain around it. That being said the above example doesn’t happen all the time there are times the killer tunnels 1 then, things all fall apart and everyone does get sacrificed, and there are times killers don’t tunnel at all, but more often than not what I see happening is as above where 1 gets tunneled and 3 escape, would really like to be able to wrap my brain around that situation maybe from a killer’s perspective. Last night’s post I was tired and probably came off as being more aggravated than I really was am just curious again from a killers point of view maybe I’m just really not unlucky on when I get matched

  • biggybiggybiggens
    biggybiggybiggens Member Posts: 700

    I think what most people mean by tunneling is it should be impossible to hook the same Survivor twice unless there is only 1 person left or something. As in, the game shouldn't even allow it to happen. So you hook one person, they get unhooked, you down them again and pick them up, but this time you get a message in ENTITY writing. -"The Entity requires a fresh sacrifice and will not accept the same sacrifice twice in a row."-


    Put in something like that and watch people change the way they play. Then if you have a slugging problem just make the (pick yourself up forever) certain part of No Mither base. BOOM fixed. Now Killers will go after a new person each time and if they slug, the Survivors will just get up on their own. Do whatever is necessary to balance it. The devs could FORCE people to play differently if they really wanted to. Why they are not currently trying to fix that problem? Your guess is as good as mine.

  • WingerSenpai
    WingerSenpai Member Posts: 51
    edited August 2023

    Playing efficiently by your standards is "Let's pick a person who's day I should ruin today." Being efficient is not playing the game as intended because people place to much punctuation on playing the game way more competetively and sweating all over themselves, same goes for those swfs who constantly play for saves non-stop and clicking flashlights and t-bagging constantly. Also it's sadly not trastalk if it's true.

    And to comment to op's post as well, this has been an issue in multiple fashions, back then with literal facecamping, then tunneling so bt was effectively a must, then they made bt-lite basekit, and now they did nothing after (if i'm not mistaken) solid 1,5 years about this problem.

    You're right, but none of them are solid enough considering the meta, and killers most of the times just outright deal with these one way or another, and none of them are worth runing anymore.

    • DS got nerfed to 3 seconds, can only be used for 60 sec, and renders you almost completly useless for it's duration if you want to get any value or you outlast it.
    • Killer counter mechanics got removed that gave survivors a slight edge at the start of a chase (think burning the wraith out of cloak with a flashlight/flashbang)
    • BT is basekit, but with the perk on most of the times it just get curb stomped like most endurance perks because its just an extra health state which in a game where you get tunneled it's useless because all that means is the killer got a "fresh chase" for 15 seconds which is non-sense because most of the times either killers time it or survivors outlast it.
    • OTR is a decent version of BT but with the same problem as ds as but with silent grunts/no aura reads.
    • Other endurance perks mostly won't effect a killer who is tunneling except if you run something like the new buckle up and for the people or some similiar stuff preventing the downed survivor from dying.

    My problem with tunneling is that if you want a solution you have to use a perk slot for it (minimum 1) and there is nothing in the game that gives the unhooked survivor a period of grace where they could actually get away and guarantee that they won't be harassed for that time.

    You're not wrong but you're not right either. Smart is not equivalent to good. Smart survivors do their objectives the fastest way they can. So do smart killers. But good survivors will do secondary objectives as well because they are considering NOED (still an 11% pick rate perk since april) and other tide turner perks that can effectively win the game for the killer. And good killers will most likely apply pressure by snowballing in a game, and rather downing a freshly unhooked survivor instead of hooking them again because in most cases it applies more pressure.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,487
    edited August 2023

    "I think what most people mean by gen rushing is that it should be impossible to push gens so much that 3 gens pop in quick succession. It should literally be impossible for another gen to pop, before the killer has gotten another hool. As in, the game shouldn't even allow it to happen. So if you finish a gen, but there has been no hooks since the last gen popped, you get a messege in ENTITY writing. -"The Entity requires blood to grease gears and pain to fuel the generators and will not allow the trial to proceed with another survivor unbloodied".-

    Put in something like that and watch people change the way they play. Then if you have a 99%ing problem just make the gen explosion part of Pain Resonance base if a gen is voluntarily left at more then 75%. BOOM fixed. Now survivors will actively seek out the killer to get hooked, because they can't progress their objective. Do whatever is necessary to balance it. And if survivors split up and do multiple gens, give those gens a Grim Embrace basekit threatment and don't forget to make them explode if they were above 75%.. The devs could FORCE people to play differently if they really wanted to. Why they are not currently trying to fix that problem? Your guess is as good as mine."

    There, I fixed your rant. Now its perfectly balanced.

  • BaByLLIKa1337
    BaByLLIKa1337 Member Posts: 17

    Well, switching targets is an option, if some survivor running you for 3 gens maybe you should reconsider who you want to chase(preferably before 3 gens pop), and like I said in original post, Im fine with tunneling when killer still have 0 hooks and 2-3 gens pop

  • BillToLast
    BillToLast Member Posts: 73
    edited August 2023

    DBD players are such whiners.

    In any other game, you can die in under 30 seconds into the match and you will have no one but yourself to blame. You won't insult your opponent or call them low-skill for outplaying you too quickly.

    In DBD, even if you are hard tunneled, you still get to play the game and you can still last a good few minutes. And yet DBD players always whine and blame their enemy when they die too quickly playing as the killable role.

  • drSpockwa
    drSpockwa Member Posts: 68

    Tunneling and camping make the game not fun for survivors. If the devs consider it acceptible, then why is there a DC penalty?