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Knightlight, one of the best DBD players in the world, says that MFT is op and needs a nerf
Knightlight, who is one of the best DBD players and arguably the strongest survivor player in the world, says that if you defend the perk Made for This, you have no skill and are bad at the game.
To all survivor mains who say that only "unskilled baby killers" complain about this perk.
Discuss.
Comments
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People who are bad need crutches, see Blight/Nurse/Spirit mains. Survivor should get crutches too. That being said it still is overtuned, remove the Endurance and I think its fine for normal matchmaking. You want to troll post ("Discuss."), you get a troll answer.
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There are two general things to say in response to this.
The first is that the appeal to authority is a fallacy even when the authority is granted for a reason. I don't care that KnightLight thinks MFT is OP and needs a nerf, but because they're a skilled player, I might care why they think that. That reasoning isn't present here, and since I can't open twitter links right now (thank you, mr musk...) I can't check if it's elsewhere in the thread.
The second follows on from that, which is to say, what nerf do they think it needs? What are they referring to? If they say that the 3% speed boost is disgustingly OP and completely free, I'd disagree with them, because they're wrong. If they say that the Endurance is too much on top of an already strong effect, and that stacking MFT's Haste with other forms of Haste is where it becomes indefensible, that I would agree with.
TL;DR invoking a skilled player's opinions is meaningless unless you give their reasoning.
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This
I dont think its overpowered, but I do want MfT to be nerfed because I think its overtuned since 2 effects that are that strong who also have 0 correlation to each other shouldnt be on the same perk
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Knightlight is overrated as a player.
There I said it.
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Well, he is not saying it is OP obviously. And it is not. Survs can’t use exhaustion perks with it which balance its power.
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his post has no explanation of what is overpowered but I assume it is same as any other chase perk. chase perks slowdown the killer's ability to down survivors and MFT provides too much perceived value in extending chases. it is little bit like pre-nerf DH and COH extending chases. MFT extends chases through haste. different means, same end result.
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Its annoying to face as M1-Killer. When I play Oni for example, I dont care about MfT.
Also I dont care what a comp. players says. Comp. in this hardcore unbalanced asymmetrical game is a joke itself. Making their own rules and bans for addons / maps etc. is so funny.
The more interesting discussion would be
A) how to bring weaker killer and stronger killers closer together
B) How to bring SoloQ closer to SWF (for me DBD Mobile is showing a way with small orders like "Im in chase", "I go for the unhook" etc. available ingame.
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yes but people like to call "fun" something that is undeniably broken or that it favors their side for the most part.
we can all agree that blast mine is fun to use and go against , MFT isnt fun in any way , using it is like a training tool for begginers and a busted tool on the good hands of someone experienced which makes m1 killer even weaker (thats terrible design).
yaaay I can hold W more effectively , sooo fun dude.
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All it needs in my opinion is just a warning to the killer that they triggered MFT on a survivor, at least for now.
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A bit of a projection, Im a nurse main but I also main Freddy I assure you that I need no crutches as I play Freddy with only one perk and nurse with no perks nor add-ons. I main nurse not because of her "ease" but how she feels to play for me personally. I'm also as equally successful with hag, plague, clown, demo, and Wesker. That being said remove the endurance and its stacking with other haste status and it's fine.
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It's really not a "fun party game" though. It halfway is and halfway is a comp game. The devs need to figure out which they want it to be and adjust/design perks accordingly.
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MFT should get the endurance remove in my opinion or possibly rework entirely.
With that being said do yall remember when otz imply that scavenger was still broken after the ptb nerf........yeah?
Think for yourself guys. Play with/against these perks and come to your own conclusion.
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As for the topic: Made For This is absolutely fine in every way. People who complain about it are really asking for survivors to go back to using exhaustion perks.
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I'd much rather see the rest of the killers brought in line (or, at least, an attempt to bring them closer) with the Big 3, but it seems they're fine with keeping Trapper a basement-camping simulator so I don't have much faith for Pig or Clown either.
That said, I agree that survivors should have strong perks to counter strong killers. The issue lies in the fact that survivors are essentially forced to have builds designed around facing the best killers in the game, meaning that when they get somebody chilling and playing Wraith, say, the Wraith player is going to get destroyed by the symphony of meta perks, especially if the map is also in favor of the survivors.
The gap between the best and worst killers needs closing ASAP, but the devs just... don't seem to want to do that.
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Another key thing here is Knightlight is a pro, or in the top 0.000(I don't know how many 0's so I'll stop here)1% of the population. Who isn't bad compared to him? That is such an empty statement considering the source.
I mean I literally said it was a troll answer in my post. Even then my troll assertion was Nurse/Blight/Spirit are so powerful, you can literally play with no perks and win, making them OP, making them a crutch for all too many players. There still is enough truth to that claim, that it can be elaborated upon. Plenty of people have seen the Otz AFK 30s perkless challenge, and seen that if a Killer is truly skilled enough (and uses everything to their advantage), they can win the vast majority of matches. But the top tier of Killers hardly have to try to do so.
In terms of Killer re-balance, as I see it we have S through D tiers, and I'd want to collapse that into only A through C tiers. It would help with that bringing of a super strong perk against a super weak Killer, because the extremes between the weakest and strongest Killer can be balanced around a smaller range. I often advocate perks that are strong, but only work against Special Attacks. For example I thought instead of the 'must be hooked' requirement for DH, it would instead be a 1s Endurance only against Special Attacks. It would even be an entirely dead perk slot against most basic M1 Killers (like Legion or Wraith), but would completely save you against the strongest Killers (like Blight or Nurse). Now to be fair, this would hit the Pig also, but I honestly don't remember the last time I actually got value out of the Pig dash other than a STBFL stack saver in the open.
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Comp players make game unfun
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I'm not surprised he thinks that. MFT is a nice boost to those like him, who are already good in chase. He would of course notice the benefit to him. MFT on an average player might get them an extra loop if they have some understanding of tiles. That player wouldn't see what the fuss is all about.
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As for the topic: Made For This is absolutely fine in every way.
No it's not.
People who complain about it are really asking for survivors to go back to using exhaustion perks.
Yes, that is what I'm asking for. I'd rather go against 4 Sprint Bursts. I'd rather go against 4 Lithes. I'd rather go against 4 Dead Hards. They're at least slightly more interesting to play against than just "I go faster all the time lmao".
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How many times can a person make the same arguments without getting bored? You guys are just gonna regurgitate the same opinions you've already voiced in God knows how many identical threads. I swear all these threads are being made by children. Only someone who has no experience with the real world could think this is worth obsessing over 24/7.
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No, it's not. And yes, I am. I highly doubt people are just deciding not to "upgrade" to an exhaustion perk such as SB/Lithe because MFT is "more fun" or whatever else people say. They use it because this perk busted.
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Who? Never heard of them.
I don’t need any perk that’s been released in the past 5 years to win.
Windows, Kindred, Lithe, Leader, Prove, I win almost every game as survivor with these old perks
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I'd like a perk that lets me kill a survivor instantly before even hooking them once. Also, I should be able to use it mid-rush as Blight. This is fun for me. What, are you gonna deny me my fun? Don't you know to have fun?
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I mean doesn’t the hud basically achieve this? It shows when survivors are in chase, performing cooperative actions, etc. it’s almost like information isn’t the edge SWF has over solo queue.
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"if you disagree you're bad at the game"... okay strong argument, he just called Otz bad but at least his 20 min video had some explanations, not just "you bad lol"
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I'm sure it would seem that way to him, as a hyper-optimal player.
For the vast majority of the playerbase, the Endurance gets more value than the Haste
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This is why I am so excited about TCM. One of the devs basically said theyll never balance around competitive, the games just meant to be fun.
BVHRs biggest mistake was balancing around top competitors peoples opinions.
I dont care what is and isnt OP anymore, I want the game to go back to being FUUUUUUUUUUUN
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"supposed to be a fun party game" This perk literally makes the game more boring by allowing less mind game potential and enables holding W more.
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Otz, who is also an amazing player, made an entire video about why this perk is problematic.
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I agree, let's go back to 7-blink Nurse and old Eruption. These things were very fun for the killer, even if a little unbalanced.
I think Blight's addons are in a perfect state right now too. Alchemist Ring, Compound 33 and speed addons are very fun to use, who cares about balance or enjoyment for the other side.
Also comp players have no effect on BHVR's decision making. They simply push the game to the limits and can show what is broken and what isn't.
Made for This is not a fun perk to go up against, just like old Eruption wasn't fun for the survivors.
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Otz is not who was cited in this thread, though. If you were to cite Otz, you would also still need to cite his reasoning, not just his conclusion.
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This is the point of the post.
MFT increases the divide between killers, as Blight/Nurse/Spirit are not affected by it, while Legion is devastated.
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Otzdarva also says MFT needs to be nerfed, as does almost every top-tier player.
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Who?
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Rancor let you delete a survivor out of the game. Sadako and pyramid head let you mori without hooking.
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This is my assessment as well. I term it a "high MMR" problem, because in the hands of the very skilled survs it's beyond useful in chase, and can feel busted as lots of perks do at that level.
For the vast rest of us normies you get a loop or two more at most, or maybe to that window, and get slapped then, triggering the endurance effect. And that's best case scenario.
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That's certainly a take. Curious about your reasoning. You don't win 70+ tournaments by accident. I've played survivor against him in scrims before. It's like playing against an overtuned AI.
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I mean every high level player has agreed it needs a nerf/adjustment in some way, so I think he's right. The whole 'you're bad' comment is likely him being frustrated of being 'outplayed' by players that are clearly not playing all that good but are getting away with small things that become irritating. MomoSeventh had a similar issue.
Also to the 'appeal to authority fallacy' line, Knightlight plays pubs like everyone else is undeniably better than anyone posting here. I'd take his opinion over the vast majority of people, including my own friends that are experienced at the game.
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Whether people say "it's just his opinion", what he said is eventually true.
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Until they're not and players end up clamoring for nerfs to those perks aswell.
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I dont understand why playing top tier killers is regarded as a crutch.
Just because it is more difficult to get a 4k with a weak killer who isnt mechanically demanding doesnt mean that the viable killers at comp level are crutches for bad players.
Do you deem cloaking and uncloaking as wraith more skillful than using top tier killers with countless techs just because you think they are op?
I should play pig and eat 50 pallets on Gideon map without camping or tunneling to consider myself skilled at the game then.
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For some reason, a lot of the top Killers also have the best add-ons.
Until only recently Nurse, Blight and Spirit all had extremely busted add-ons. Range for Nurse, Mother-Daughter Ring for Spirit and like 5 of Blight's add-ons
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So let me clarify I'm not saying Knightlight is a bad player he's not but people act like he's the best and I really disagree with that, I'd probably put them as the 2nd best killer behind Zaka but I really think they're nothing to write home about as survivor. I've never really been impressed with their looping and I think Eternal's teamwork makes him look better than he is.
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no offense to knighlight but you dont need a 'pro' player to confirm what is op and what is not in this game that has less depth than mario kart
mft's been op long before he tweeted about it, it's basically the new decisive strike when that was practically 60 seconds of invincibility, and everyone who cared about winning used it.
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Same argument can be applied to Blight. He is one of the hardest killers to learn, therefore most people won't be able to use his strong addons to their full effects.
At least Alchemist Ring requires you to hit a survivor, MFT just rewards you for losing.
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Blight, Nurse and Spirit at least take a lot of skill to use. A crutch would be something that compensates for your lack of skill, such as Windows of Opportunity.
Blight is arguably the hardest and most complex killer to play as, since you need to learn the collision properties of every single prop in the game and be able to make crucial decisions on the fly. Spirit and Nurse require you to have good hearing and game sense.
Made for This simply gives you a raw stat boost when you lose the first chase. That is the definition of a crutch.
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You'd be surprised that many killers say they don't enjoy Blastmine, there have even been threads asking for it to be nerfed.
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Doesn't BL reward killers for losing as well? or are we gonna argue BL is needed cause "downing a survivor" is part of the game? If getting hit is losing then so is BL, why not make the same argument and remove it?
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Kinda. But if someone for example is not on a gen or on a totem/chest/killer-sidequest like Jigsaw-Box etc., what makes you sure this teammate is actually going for the save? I think this short ingame-messages between the teammates would be a huge increase in quality for SoloQ. SWFs do have this via Discord anyway, so it wouldnt be a buff for them at all. This, together with HUD-Extensions like "Progress at the exit gate" in particular would make Solo a lot better.
After that, we could buff weaker Killers (M1-Killer in particular) without making them more of a noobstamper than every killer is anyway.
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Exhaustion perks are stronger and more impactful - especially when people use them to their full potential like 99'd sprint burst. But people already made up their mind and so have I. Made For This is a good perk but nothing special in my opinion.
As killer I rarely even notice the perk and still win most of my games as always. Afterwards I often go "oh... That person had MFT?" because the chases feel barely any different.
Just you wait until it gets nerfed and people go back to sitting on the gen whilst injured with Sprint Burst + Windows so get a 0% chance of getting a quick hit/down.
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though I agree with your opinion, I don't think that MfT is one of those "fun" things that should stay. You could make that argument about dead hard because despite how unfair it was (still is, tbh, but less powerful), it was an active perk that was very fun to use and created a lot of cool situations.
MfT, on the other hand, doesn't do any of that. It just gives survivor a plain boost that messes up with killer's perception of hit range and allows survivor to loop killers longer.
Not only that, this perk also specifically affects the most those killers who aren't that strong in the first place. Dead hard was unfair against m1s, but it also worked well against Nurse or Blight. MfT does nothing against high tier killers, but it's extremely powerful against lower tier killers.
Second part of MfT is just stupid as well, you don't have to earn it, it just exists and allows survivors to play extremely recklessly even though that shouldn't be enabled.
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