What's the counter to Resilience + MFT + new fast vaults at Lerys?

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shalo
shalo Member Posts: 1,495

Every window seems to be an infinite.

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  • Alice_pbg
    Alice_pbg Member Posts: 6,544
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    insta down them.

  • Steakdabait
    Steakdabait Member Posts: 1,254
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    that's honestly more of a lery's having stupid rng sometimes problem than a resil mft problem

  • Evan_
    Evan_ Member Posts: 528
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    Claustrophobia.

  • Phantom_
    Phantom_ Member Posts: 1,193
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    Claustrophobia and Blood Echo

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,503
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    If they are infinites you seem to run them horribly wrong. But yeah, it is Made For This, Resilience and Fast Vaults.

    But dont worry, the Devs revert the Fast Vaults, because good vaults are not allowed here. Just swing it windows when you are nowhere near them, the Survivor will get set back for you =)

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,622
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    Ironic that you say that, considering Lerys is widely regarded as Nurse and Blight's worst maps by a country mile (somehow even worse than RPD)

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    Killer has to play better. Agree, could be the problem.

    On the other hand, survivors literally have a perk that tells them how to play .....


    Also, have you played against a made fo this + resilience + windows ace as an m1 killer like pig? It feels horrible. We had dh with the stupid waiting game now we have this where you cant even get into the position to get a hit a lot of the times. Porblems just change, they dont go away.

    Skill issue i guess...

  • Nos37
    Nos37 Member Posts: 4,063
    edited August 2023
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    Not everything survivors do has to have a counter.

    Take the L. Let it reflect in the escape rates and the stats. The balance team might sort it out (eventually).

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,503
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    I dont see that Windows is a Perk which tells you how to play, but rather where to go for ressources. If you have a few hundred hours in this game you dont need Windows to know where you find Pallets or Windows. What you dont know is where your teammates have removed ressources.

    And yeah, I play mostly M1-Killers. So I know how ot play against those Perks and I dont even care if I lose because most of the time I lose because I make mistakes or because the other side is just better. The difference is that I dont throw a tantrum.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,503
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    Yeah, they have said this. That being said, vaults were not working for years and Killers got used to just swing at the window and still got their Hit. And threw a tantrum when this was not the case anymore. Now they are reverted and we can probably wait a few years again before they are not awful.

    And well, OP is one of those people who will never say that they played badly but blame the game for their losses. As you can see here - they probably did not play good, otherwise those windows would not be "infinites". But for them, the problem lies in some Perks the Survivors used.

  • Biscuits
    Biscuits Member Posts: 1,097
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    Killers when the game is almost survivor sided in one situation on one map.

  • GrimReaperJr1232
    GrimReaperJr1232 Member Posts: 1,656
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    Well, you don't. You're just stuck dealing with it and powering on through, especially if the survivor is male with the bugged faster/further vaults.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    ok, i have 3000h in this game and main pig. I dont say that i lose against this perk combi (well sometimes i actually do, but it happens rarely). However. THIS ISNT FUN TO PLAY AGAINST. This is my point. Dh was unfun to play against. Made for this is unfun to play against.

    And yes. Windows is a perk that gives you distinct instructions on how to play. I did an experiment a few weeks ago where i played with the face mask - addon (piggies blindness addon) and wanted to see how players played against me. The result: some survivors played really good regardless, probably players like you that dont need it. Others where completely hopeless (they had the perk) They didnt know anything about pathing, looping or whatever. They told me that they had huge problems playing against me. These are your regular pre droppers and shift w - players. They dont look behind them, they just follow the yellow boxes and interact with them.

    Windows has two functions:

    Good players: use it to know what recources are left

    Less skilled players: use it as a game manual and turn their brain off.

    Sadly i feel like i encounter the second type more often than the first because i genuinely enjoy a good chase. Running after survivors like a bot because they have this perk and stop thinking isnt fun though.

  • 00berdisc
    00berdisc Member Posts: 96
    edited August 2023
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    Lol I just got hit 3 steps from a window after a jump with MFT y RES, so just Get Good

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,489
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    Don't chase them when they are in a strong position.

  • Lixadonna
    Lixadonna Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 125
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    All of the people saying play something else or AFK are the ones who won't get good. So cringe.

    At least give OP real advice on getting better.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,489
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    There are few times in a match against normal players where you HAVE to chase in an unfavorable position.


    It's one of the most important things to learn as Killer. Don't let Survivors dictate where you chase them at.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    I know that.

    I would like to remember you that a survivor with made for this reaches shack from any position on the grim pantry. Just one example.

    I know how to play. I also try to stay realistic. I have to sometimes chase people in unfavourable situations. Otherwise i wont get a down.

    This is killer specific, but as pig, i have nothing until my first down. If i leave my first chase too often i WILL lose the match.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
    edited August 2023
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    Competent survivors also know where to bring each chase with MFT / where it is strongest on most maps, not just Grim Pantry, and will often start to trek there before chases even begin.

    As you said, you need to commit at some point or you lose.

    I'm under the impression that the perk will be nerfed in the next mid-chapter patch once sales die down from the previous chapter.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    I know its not just grim pantry. Was just an example.

    I personally dislike the perk, because it hits weaker killers exponentially higher than stronger killers and because it has two effects that dont really have a downside (being injured with resilience + made for this makes you arguably a stronger survivor that being healthy).

    But thats just me. Everyone has their own opinions. I would love the game to be about smart pathing, predictions and good mindgames on both parts instead of shift w + predrop. Its just boring to me.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
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    For sure.

    Time/Stats will prove what is reality and what is fiction.

    Just be patient >:3

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,503
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    To preface this - I have more hours than most people in this game, even some content creators. (Currently ~8660 hours)

    So it is entirely possible that my experience is a bit different because I played far longer and if I can remember the Maps very well, it does not mean that the majority can do that.

    That being said, the second type of players is also more common IMO so this is why you (and me) encounter them more often. But I dont really think that this is a problem that they are on autopilot. The less experienced/less skilled players still have to loop and they will not be as efficient as good players. Stuff like combining structures will probably not be a thing and they drop pallets early (as you said already).

    Furthermore, if WoO is such a problem, why dont Killers use Blindness? Half of the roster has a Blindness-Add On. Then you have some Perks, mainly Fearmonger, which is not bad at all which would at least counter WoO at the start of the chase (if you catch them on a Gen).

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,489
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    And a majority of Killers have mobility to counter that and if they don't, they have some way to shut down loops or to make being injured a risk.

  • xEmoGirlxAlexisx
    xEmoGirlxAlexisx Member Posts: 593
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    just go to a Exit Gate and stay AFK there is nothing u can do against this vombo except u are Nurse

    MFT Broke the Game and make most strong loops to a infinite and the Devs still dont see the Problem

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,489
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    Have you considered the possibility that there may not be a problem?


    Not saying who's right, just asking if you've considered it.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,068
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    Off the top of my head, there are less than 5 straight up M1 zero chase tool killers on the entire roster at this point. Are people not using their powers?

  • HarlockTaliesin
    HarlockTaliesin Member Posts: 763
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    The two best in-game options are either AFK (don't give them any fun for playing with broken perks/perk combos, gives less BPs, increases chances of depipping or at best neutral pip, doesn't give credit for tomes/dailies that require killer interaction) or down and camp (the others will come to you).

    The best option all around is not to play the game at all until it's fixed. Not playing means longer queue times for survivors, less amount of times they get BP bonus and lower BP bonus when they do get it, and BHVR has less people to sell cosmetics/DLCs to. If enough players do this, it will eventually hurt them to the point that they'll get off their ass and do something.

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,324
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    I suppose they are using them, however MfT substantially changes how those powers are effective, for example doctors shock ceases to exist, singularitys overclock you can pretty much ignore, night guards are just lmao, slinger/huntress can catch if you severely misplay a tile, if you don't dw you are safe, pig its pig dont have high hopes for her, trickster might as well not have a power against MfT, legion is just an m1 character so he just has to deal with it , same with plague (if she has no corrupt purge), GF and myers you probably can stop healing so exposed doesnt matter and use the speed boost to keep looping them (ghostface might be an issue since he can sneak up on you if you are distracted), freddy is a joke so idk if I would discuss him.

    So yeah many killers can counter MfT, that is very true, and its not excludive to their strenght, for example clown absolutelly dunks on MfT and clown is honestly a free 4 man escape if your team is semi-decent, however that doesnt make the original comment I posted any less true, nurse and blight get way more value against MfT than any other characterbin the game brcause they frankly do not get affected by the perk.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,489
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    I think with Range and Detonation, Doc is actually okay against MFT.


    Also, I often use Knights Guards for stalling and occupying multiple people at once. Imo, if you're expecting Knight's Guards to get hits or downs on their own, you're playing him wrong.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,414
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    the thing is, there doesnt even need to be a pallet and you can loop several times around anything. so any filler pallet = doc is irrelevant. those add ons might work on semi strong windows and pallets but that's it.

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,324
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    I agree on the knight that using guards for a hit is mostly useless, however against mtf assasin loses his only benefit which is speed, still iffy about doctor as personally I have see far more doctos get deletrd by MfT than actually succesfully get the hit with a shock, but that might be because I havent seen a very good doctor yet.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    As a pig main, i learned to understand that my stealth is a detriment on most maps. Especially when survivors become very efficient. Im sure you know that.

    Also, some killers actually neither have the ability to close the gap, shut down loops or making injured a risk. Perfect example beiong Myers. You know that as well as i do.

    If all we play are stronger killers, sure. No problem. However, there are killers that seriously struggle. Not saying pig is one of them, because, as you said, most survivors are potatoes.


    Begs the question: what happens when you encouter a strong group?

    Let me tell you, because i meet them pretty regulary, i lose 3 gtens for my first down.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,068
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    No doubt some killers have a hard time against 4 strong survivors on overly safe maps. Pig, Myers, Wraith, etc, can struggle. Most of the basic M1s have tools to somewhat balance that, like Pig's head traps.

    The problem is most people's solution is to buff killers across the board because 5 or so killers are significantly weaker than the rest of the roster in a specific MMR bracket. If you make buffs solely to bring killers like Myers up a tier, you're also moving every A tier killer up to S tier.

    By all means, buff Pig, Myers, and every killer without chase tools. But keep in mind even killers like PH or Demo can turn almost every tile into a drop the pallet or die situation when they're played well.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
    edited August 2023
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    I main 'chill killers' like Pig/Legion/Clown/Onryo/Freddy/Demo/etc at mid/mid-high MMR (lobbies usually have a prestige level similar to the pic below):

    Such games are often sweaty blowouts for either side, or if I'm playing 'nice/normally', a draw at best - I keep my Wraith's MMR intentionally super low to speed through the tome/farm with newbies (I've thrown so many games as Wraith that he may as well be in the MLB).

    I also get similar prestiges as my teammates in my survivor games, usually made up of 2/3 person SWF.

    I know the perk and some of its combos are an issue because, anecdotally, I play against people that know how to maximize the most efficient meta loadouts (items included) and I also run such combinations when I need to escape a trial/need to boost my MMR back up a bit after losing a few due to tome challenges (like that Sabo one @_@).

    There's nothing wrong with running the best stuff on either side and, as I've admitted, I do it on occasion, too - I'm not trying to dictate how people play the game or change anyone's playstyle in these discussions.

    Post edited by Raccoon on
  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    Thing is, you have to get one down to start your game as pig. I have to place my traps.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    I dont dictate anyone either. I just say that this is one hell of a boring combo to play against as an m1 based killer.

    Also i would not consider the killers you stated as "chill" most of them struggle too hard, therefore their matches are more of a sweat fest than the ones of the stronger killers.

    (Prestige says nothing about the players skill btw.... Only that they play alot.)

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,491
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    For some killers, yes it is a problem.

    For others it isnt.

    Sometimes its also the killers problem, that they made too many mistakes. Sometimes it isnt.

    Made for this very rarely outright wins you games. I had that happen maybe twice. I even looked back at the match and yes, i literally lost the match due to this perk.

    Again. I will state and stand to my opinion, that this perk is unhealthy for the game just like dh was. It feels horrible to play against, because you cant even tell if they are cheating or using the perk. Sometimes you cant even see if they use the perk at all. It punishes the killer for doing their objective by giving the survivor haste and when combined with resilience also gen- and vault - speed, encouraging the survivor to stay injured. On top of that it hits weaker killers exponentially harder than the stronger ones. The strongest ones dont even care about the haste effect at all (Blight and Nurse).