Do you think an anti tunnel system is coming in the next year or two?
Simple question. I'm not asking if you want one or how you would implement it. Just whether or not you think one will be added in the near future. I'm asking mainly because a lot of questions in the survey seemed to relate to tunneling creating a negative game experience. Also asking because of how prevalent hard tunneling at five gens is now.
Comments
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One of the previous surveys asked about tournaments. No tournaments in sight. So who knows what the current survey will bring.
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I honestly doubt it.
BHVR wants killers to actually chase survivors, not sit and camp hooks, gens, or really camp anything else. And the devs seem to not care if the killer is chasing the same survivor 3 times in a row, as long as there's a chase going on.
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There's no way you can make an anti-tunnel system that isn't a heavy nerf to killers chasing in general or abusable by survivors.
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They hyped me so up when they asked for a Fullmetal Alchemist crossover once and it never came.
i am a diehard FMA fan.
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I got really hyped about tournaments. Like official tournaments. They also asked about different game modes. There is so much potential with licenses
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Why not ? it's too easy/effective and there is no incentive to go for someone else..you probably want to change that, especially because most people hate it you're just losing players if you don't
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I really hope there isnt one
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A true anti-tunnel system, probably not. It would just be such a massive game change that I don't see how they could do it.
Making tunneling a little harder, such as increasing the haste boost off hook, or other base kits buffs when unhooked (no blood trails or moans for 20 seconds as an example), probably not, but that could happen.
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There's already an anti-tunnel system with the built in endurance. I doubt they're gonna make a survivor completely immortal until XYZ happens if that's what you mean.
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Maybe 7 years after the anti camping system :)
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Ah yes, forcing the Killer to count to 10. My favorite Anti-Tunnel System.
Anti-Tunnel in DBD is very, very weak since everything resolves around Endurance. One it and everything is gone.
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Yeah, in a recent developer stream they talked about a subway car that could be found on the map and if you repair it for one gen worth of repair time, it speeds along the tunnels, potentially stunning the Alien several times in a row and making her tunnels pretty unsafe. It's a big investment, but seems strong, at least on paper. Only time will tell if this will be am effective anti-tunneling system. I got my fingers crossed.
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I think the basekit 10 seconds of BT is the only basekit anti-tunnel we can ever really expect. It's actually pretty strong against most killers if the survivor is a good looper, but for mid-to-poor loopers, yeah it doesn't do anything.
I could maybe see them buffing some of the anti-tunnel perks -slightly-, DS could eventually go back upto 5 seconds stun, and maybe they'll introduce one or two other anti-tunnel perks but I doubt they're gonna do much against tunelling as a whole.
If they did outright make tunnelling impossible to do they'd need to substantially buff the killer role across the board and I doubt they have the time or drive to do that.
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Timing is too often uncertain w anything in this game.
I believe it’s inevitable, w/o other changes around certain issues.
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What else can they do that won't just make people immortal though?
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DS being meaningful again by having a stun time of 5 seconds for example. Current DS only provides 7 meters of distance and usually Killers dont really care about DS anymore.
And nobody asked for reducing the stun time anyway, most people wanted it to deactivate in Endgame, which was enough as a Nerf.
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Killers would simply need to get compensation buffs, so that generally healthy gameplay is encouraged much more.
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The stun time was reduced to its original time, which was always the plan. It got increased originally so enduring didn't COMPLETELY make it useless. They changed enduring, then changed DS back to its original value. You have to PURPOSEFULLY be not looking to not find ppl asking for the change to go back to the original DS stun time. It was being repeated pretty obnoxiously.
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Of course Killers wanted it to be back to the original stun time. Because it is meaningless.
And saying that DS deserver to be at 3 second (which it was when it was in its strongest state) when it
- activates only when unhooked
- deactivates when you do ANYTHING to progress the game
- deactivaties when all Gens are done
is really wrong.
3 seconds on a busted Perk is fine. 3 seconds on a Perk with that many restrictions is too low.
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No, but I think we're heading in the direction of more perks being disabled after certain points.
Prediction:
MFT will not work in end game (Similar to Decisive Strike and Off the Record)
Regression perks will stop working after one survivor dies (Similar to Hex: Ruin) or will be severely weakened after one person dies (Similar to Thanataphobia)
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I mean most of the time the unhooked is using their base kit bt to body block for the unhooker, so I'd be a moron not to go after them right. I wish I was joking but I'm not this happens so often I mean I'll clearly go after the unhooker and lo and behold meg is breathing on my neck as I chase Claude who just unhooked.
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I doubt it. Tunnelling is different to facecamping in that everyone still gets to participate in gameplay, even if it's just chase. Plus tunnelling doesn't always pay off for the killer, especially when their MMR increases and they start getting matched with survivors more experienced at running tiles. So it can come with risks.
The only thing they need to do is address depipping. If you're first found and tunnelled out, a depip can suck because your ability to engage in other objectives is out of your hands.
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I was just correcting your statement of "nobody asked for reduced stun time". Whether it is strong enough in its current state is a whole different conversation. Either way, are you saying the correct way to strengthen anti-tunneling mechanic is to rely on perks? That the built In mechanics are fine how they are and the correct route would be to buff specificly DS? That if you STILL get tunneled out of the game after a 69 second stun, you'd say "yup, this is fine...no more buffs needed"?
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Some Basekit-Mechanic would make more sense. However, this is harder to implement.
DS being buffed to 5 seconds again would not be the ultimate solution. But it would be a Anti-Tunnel tool which does not resolve around Endurance. And when DS was a thing, there was less tunneling. Because the current Anti-Tunnel measurements are just not good enough.
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That's what I'm getting at though. I don't think we'll ever get to a point where people will be satisfied with the anti-tunneling mechanics as long as tunneling is possible. No matter how fair things might be for the 4V1 aspect, if people feel likes it's unfair on the 1V1 aspect because the killer chased them too much, they'll claim the anti-tunneling isn't good enough.
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No doubt about it. I give it another 12 months.
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Not true, my proposed solution fixes the issue and is not exploitable by survivors:
- Remove the endurance and speed boost survivors get when unhooked.
- Create a new status effect that survivors get when unhooked called "Ethereal" for 20 seconds
- Ethereal: While Ethereal, the survivor gains the following:
- The survivor is completely invisible to the killer
- The survivor makes no sound to the killer
- The survivor makes no scratch marks
- The survivor does not have collision with the killer or other survivors
- The survivor moves at 200% movement speed
- The survivor is unable to perform any action
- The survivor is UNABLE to see totems, hooks, the killer, or any killer belongings (trapper traps, hag traps, etc.)
- The survivor can see the aura of all other survivors
- All perks are temporarily deactivated (except for new perks that might be made to work with this mechanic later)
- Deactivates in endgame
- Fix facecamping by making hooks work like PH cages, if you facecamp near them, they move to a different hook that is close to a teammate and far from the killer, giving that teammate enough time to save before the killer gets there, and the person unhooked gets "ethereal"
Basically, the status effect gives the survivor Spirit's power for 20 seconds, but lets them see the aura of the other survivors, so they can run to a teammate and get healed but they basically can't do anything else. After this, you would probably need to do some buffs to killers as a whole, as now hard tunneling is extremely difficult as is camping, and the lower tier ones will need some help.
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I feel like many survivors would actually see this as a nerf. Not being able to do anything useful except healing for 20 seconds can be rough, especially against killers you wouldn't bother healing against anyways. Plague would be laughing.
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That's kinda the point, because it makes tunneling impossible, which i'd argue killers who aren't the top 3 probably have to do on some level. So it is intentional to basically "put the survivor on timeout" for a bit.
20 seconds is also that sweet spot where you can have enough time to figure out the teammate you want to run to, run over to them, and get most of a heal off.
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It's an interesting idea, but I feel like it would annoy both sides for different reasons. Eruption has already shown that survivors HATE the incapacitated status effect. On the other hand killers completely losing all ways of tracking survivors, just to find out there was an invisible survivor crossing the map to go to a generator they assumed wasn't being worked on... can feel frustrating. Just tossing in my 2 cents though.
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I think there are many perks against it. I see no particular reason for this system.
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BHVR loves to hold survivors’ hands, so yeah I expect we’ll see something beyond the multiple anti-tunneling features and perks that already exist. Basekit DS? Automatically healed when unhooked? 200% movement speed? All very possible!
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Well no, its not needed, because the anti tunnel system is avoiding being hit in chase and escaping.
That's on the survivor and the perks they choose to bring, that is the anti tunnel system.
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I'm still just wanting d-strike/off the record endurance to deactivate after the survivor is healed to healthy state.
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I don't think it's in the pipeline and there is only so much which can be done honestly. There's only so much that can protect a survivor fairly before it becomes overly unbalanced.
As a side, I do wonder whether the anti-tunnel kit in place made things more obvious. Before, killers had to guess if a survivor had BT. Some would tunnel anyway, but others felt that targetting the rescuer may be quicker. Now, killers just need to count to 10 then hit. Many survivors don't arm themselves with DS like before (I know it's been weakened now), when before it was put in place as a back-up. The BT basekit in place gives a false sense of protection now. Also, people use the given NT as a shield. Most killers see through this and basically punish this with a quick hook.
The endurance effect could probably be replaced by a brief 3 seconds of no collision, but instead vastly increase the speed of the survivor for maybe 10 seconds to get the hell away (unless they start on a gen or another conspicuous action which abruptly ends it). Obviously, once the gates are activated this effect should be cancelled.
Maybe this would prevent tunneling better than just counting. A killer would more wisely give up tunnelling if the survivor sprints away with plenty of distance, than an endurance effect where the killer just waits it out.
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Dbd community cup which happened every few months
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Hope so, tunnel at 5gens is the most braindead GGEZ gameplay
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No, why would there be one?
There was DS and in its previous iteration it was the healthiest perk in the game. The devs have gutted it and gave us no anti-tunneling perk. I mean ones that actually work, I know that OTR is technically an anti-gunnel perk, but it's utter garbage at combating tunneling.
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no. I'm hoping bhvr will be sensible and just leave it with basekit bt. no other systems should be implemented. if anything were to happen they should just incentivize not tunneling with BP or something or maybe increased shard gain or something else tunnelers might want. but introducing another basekit nerf to killer, (another meaning basekit bt, AFC, now something else), which yes a bsekit anti tunnel system would absolutely be one, would just suck for killer players.
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This
look at what they did the second basket BT came out
used it to body-block the killer then whine and cry when they got rehooked
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Why dont bvhr just make it so survivors can control the killer? There will be so many anti measures its not even the same game.
Give me 2018-2020 dbd bvhr pls.
Why dont survivors teleport to a safe room after being hooked, and they come back when ready?
Lets not look at why killers need to tunnel!
BIG SCARY KILLERS!!!
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Why not also an " I win" button for survivors ? It's unhealty that this game has no one yet, survivors must win 100% once they log in
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If you make a good anti tunneling feature the top SWF groups can stop playing, since they will win every game 100%.
We see it in tournaments that killers are trying to tunnel one out (and often failing) and that are very good killers. The problem on every anti tunneling perk is that you could use it offensive, like they are doing it with the endurance after unhooking and off the record allready.
I think the "problem" is that in most scenarios you want to have at least 1 survivor down when 3gens are left or you are gonna have a very hard time. Thats why you kinda need to focus on 2 players, while ignoring the other 2.
3 hooks on 1 player is better as 6 hooks splittet. Killers will never try to split the hooks equally on all players because why should they? They are not getting rewarded in any kind for that, the opposide; its way harder for them.
And if a killer can choose between 3 full hp survivors or a injured survivor on deathhook who do you think he will take?
There are perks who reward this kind of playstile like "Grim Embrace" (tunneling) or "Monstrous Shrine" (camping). But sadly they are weak AF.
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We want a tunneling suppression system because we want to have fun, not because we want to win.
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You're got basekit BT, you're getting a better version of deliverance in the form of the anti-killer-is-ever-near-the-hook system, and we already know that they've got an anti 3-gen system in the works, and you want more? Really? How about this, if the killer nearby when the survivors get unhooked, they lose control of their body, shove their weapons down their own throats and the exit gates are automatically powered and opened, and a personal hatch opens right next to every survivor, because, you know, expecting survivors to walk all the way to the exit gates themselves is really toxic.
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Implementing that would lower the skill level of Survivors over time. Veteran players aside, there is lesser motivation to improve in chase or decision making if there are mechanics to bail the player out when they mess up.
People complain about tunneling or camping early on in the game but that doesn’t excuse the fact that they lost their first chase early on as well because they were caught in a bad position/greeded resources/lost a mindgame. I think more people would improve at chase if they played each chase like it was their last. Why else is predropping so strong in comp?
Nonetheless if lowering the overall skill level of Survivors is the goal of the devs then yes it should be implemented.
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Well if there was anti ANY thing coming in the next year or two it there would have to be a MASSIVE overhaul in balance before that happens.
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I have 3k hours in the game and haven't played in months due to tunnelling. Something that is meta shouldn't feel like griefing.
Nearly every match I've played, the killer tunnels the weakest looper, and doesn't engage with other survivors until it's a 3v1.
It's not fun to get matched with killers who aren't great at chases or gen pressure and just get high MMR from tunnelling. It's not fun to get tunnelled out then not get to participate. It baffles me that anyone supports tunnelling or thinks it's fun. It's by far the biggest flaw of this game. That's why I stopped playing.
Survivors that are bad at looping are still going to lose matches without getting tunnelled. The 'less incentive to get better at chases' comment moreso applies to killers that tunnel lol. They don't need to be good at chases because they can just find the weakest looper to win. Then you end up with killers at high MMR that NEED to tunnel to win. That creates this perception that tunnelling is necessary, and it's a result of poor game design.
Reward spreading hooks and punish tunnelling. Balance around this - which likely means a buff to killers. This would 100% make MMR more reflective of experience/ability. Then the game is in a much better spot (and I would come back lol).
See my old post for one way to address tunnelling.
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I have 3k hours in the game and stopped playing due to tunnelling.
Anything that is meta should not feel like griefing. Tunnelling is meta. Tunnelling feels like griefing.
It is by far DBD's biggest flaw (moreso than facecamping, slugging, etc., due to its prevalence and severity).
"there is lesser motivation to improve in chase or decision making if there are mechanics to bail the player out when they mess up"
^ This comment applies to tunnelling killers more than survivors. Bad loopers are more likely to lose their matches even without getting tunnelled. Killers that tunnel will win matches with little need to improve chasing ability, because they only need to find the worst looper to win. This boosts their MMR to the point they NEED to tunnel to win. That's what causes the perception that tunnelling is necessary - and it's due to poor game design.
Reward spreading hooks/gen pressure, and disincentivize tunnelling. This will 100% balance MMR, and lead to more fun matches everywhere.
I'm not a game designer but it's crazy to me that this isn't a top priority. It's so easy to fix and people have proposed so many good (and bad) ideas on here. See my old post for one way to do it.
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Max you're getting is probably the upcoming feature.. after that I wouldnt expect anything else regarding "camping" without some serious game core changes which they arent willing to do by the looks of it..
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