Is there more than 1 minor benefit?
Hooks
Yeah thats right, hooks. Is there any reason I should be using these pointless things over slugging?
To be honest I just cant find a justification that is compelling enough to abandon slugging as my primary means of play. When I think about it, slugging does everything that a hook offers while also allowing removing unfavorable aspects. Im not playing to 4k every match, not determined to focus down 2 survivors for a draw, Im just playing chill while trying to maximize the number of chases I can enjoy and letting survivors determine who if any escape. How could hooks be used to promote that same energy?
So aside from being the quickest way to kill a single survivor, whats something hooks do better?
Comments
-
I mean if you don't care about killing the Survivors then the primary method of doing so isn't going to appeal to you.
15 -
Well, you're participating in normal gameplay, so there's that.
You get more BP as well.
17 -
You're definitely not playing chill. Survivors don't enjoy being slugged. There are plenty of reasons to slug stratigically, especially if you're playing Twins, but it sounds like you're being a jerk just to be a jerk.
Playing chill is chasing someone, downing them, hooking them, then moving on to the next survivor.
9 -
I dont know if we should call slugging abnormal gameplay. Breaking it down survivors are still able to play a normal match involving stealth, chases, saves and even death. The only normal aspect removed is the limitations of chances before elimination with oppurtunities only increasing with good teamwork.
5 -
Better bp and grade progress.
It's also easier to track your bait when they're hung at a fixed spot instead of being able to crawl around.
5 -
I dont see the survivor benefit of being on hook. Both requires a teammate to save and both have you actionless.
3 -
If you're not trying to kill the Survivors then BP. If you don't care that much about BP or killing the survivors then nothing really. From how I'm reading your playstyle you don't really need to use hooks; hooks are only if you want to win (defined as a 3K+) and get BP.
1 -
BP is pretty much it
0 -
Well bp is not a concern anymore, but I see what your getting at with the bait. My counter point would be that with slugging I can also relocate the bait if or when I choose. Plus there are perks which can aid tracking both slugged and not.
1 -
more bps.
hook pressure is bigger than slug pressure. if i see the killer is slugging and especially if they are hovering the area i just stick to gens. 4 mins is a long time compared to 60 seconds (a hook state)
you actually need to be good at chase to keep up with people getting slugs up and resetting. one bad chase and all your pressure is gone, and now you don't have your hook state either.
6 -
Perks that interact with hooks, more points, possible quicker games due to finding prey easier, and not causing undue irritation to survivors (last one is Abit of a stretch due to survivor behavior)
1 -
You make good points, though the hypothetical killer is intending to win by slugging all 4 and lingering around the down.
While I will use downs as bait to draw in healthy survivors, the real benefit is forcing them from gens to pickup in possible deadzones. Also with a perk like knockout I can actually make the time to locate and pickup take longer then a hook save. This can usually grant me a little more leway to patrol and find a gen jocky.
2 -
If you're using the slug as bait, you're simply better off proxy camping in just about every scenario.
Slug takes 4 minutes to bleed out, so one survivor could solo 2 entire gens and still have time to spare before needing to rescue their teammate. All while the killer is just camping the slug doing nothing to pressure the rest of the team.
A hook stage, on the other hand, is 60 seconds and has a nearly immediate need for someone to unhook. You could proxy camp the hook and save yourself 2 full minutes of time, in a worst case scenario. Less time if they unhook and you tunnel, and far less if they hook bomb.
Or you could leave the hook, pressure a survivor off gens, and have one hooked, one in chase, and one going for save for 75% of the survivor team pressured off their objective.
Slug camping is also mostly countered by the current buckle up/for the people combo. Sure, you could injure the FtP survivor before they get there, but if they pull it off you've got literally nothing to show for it, not even a hook stage, and you still have to push through endurance. You've gained nothing but giving survivors time at that point.
Even trading/intercepting a rescue isn't as useful since two slugs can just move in opposite directions and you can't camp them both. Hooks don't move.
6 -
Depends, everything has alot of gray area.
- If killer downs Dwight, then see Meg picks Dwight up, then down Dwight again before chasing Meg, its not fun for Dwight.
- If killer downs Dwight, then see Meg picks Dwight up, then chase Meg but not down Dwight. I somehow had a few matches like this against a GF, a Wraith, a Clown. And those were insainly fun.
Recently I play like (2) killers. And able to put alot of pressure on survivors with Trapper and Myers, GF, I only hook a survivor if the bleeding bar reaches to half, and 2nd hook if close to death.
Post edited by C3Tooth on1 -
If its working for you, keep doing it then.
- Hooks are a proc for some perks, they give extra BP's.
- They count for pips toward ranks which give extra BP's in the end.
- They create a focal point where you know survivors will be and they don't move away from that point.
- Unhooking is typically a riskier rescue than picking up a survivor, no noise cue etc.
- Others have already posted more in depth points about time and play efficiency.
There are plenty of reasons to use hooks, but if they don't suit your gameplay then by all means don't use em.
As a side note, ignore the posts about "playing normally" or "properly" or the idea that "all survivors hate being slugged".
These are players whom have confused their opinions and assumptions as facts, or have a limited preconceived idea of how the game should be played and expect everyone to rigidly follow it. Neither of these are good ways to approach the game.
3 -
Clearly, slugging everyone isn't normal since BHVR spent the time and resources to develop a system specifically aimed at countering that.
Was it implemented? No, but the intent was there.
0 -
You like chases more than kills, you're playing wrong.
People who lay on the ground a long time aren't in chase for a long time. Typically a unhook leads to a chase, you get an unhook notification, there's two survivors, chase one.
Let the survivors play more, you'll get way more chases. Let them take chances and they will. Too oppressive makes the survivors too careful, not worth the risk of getting into a chase they can avoid.
Both you and the guy on the ground will get more BP and action if you hook. That's the one compelling reason you need, it's more fun for both of you. You don't owe it to survivors, but it's more fun, more points, more playing.
But as a killer that knows how to enjoy this game day-in and day-out, fun is the only reason. If you're playing well enough to control the trial, win in the way that gets you what you want. Efficiency doesn't matter. Toy with them.
That's why villains always explain their plans to the hero instead of just killing them, it's an empty victory if you don't savor it.
1 -
"But as a killer that knows how to enjoy this game day-in and day-out, fun is the only reason. If you're playing well enough to control the trial, win in the way that gets you what you want. Efficiency doesn't matter. Toy with them.
That's why villains always explain their plans to the hero instead of just killing them, it's an empty victory if you don't savor it."
👍️
0 -
Having a tool to counter something doesn't necessarily invalidate that something as "normal" gameplay.
4 -
Losing isn't really fun for killers, either. I think going for hooks is both better and healthier, but at the same time, nobody expects survivors to win in a way that killers will enjoy.
Often the exact opposite.
I like survivors, I like people who share this game with me, but survivors aren't known for being nice to killers. If caring about the other side was more normal, this wouldn't seem like such an entitlement, but it's not at all normal for survivors to care about my fun.
That being said, I do care about the survivors having fun, but I don't owe it to you. You're not entitled to it, I'm not a jerk if I don't.
2 -
Sooner or later, most of my games usually end-up as four-slugs anyway. After that it's only a matter of finding them back or going for a coffee if I can't easily find them.
0 -
I understand your point that hooking is more effective if killing the Survivor is the goal, death by hook being faster was something I already agreed with. But again that's a scenario that completely relies on the fact that you're camping the one person you have slugged and only switching focus to a new survivor that comes to pick them up. Not what I want or even try to do, forcing a bleedout this way is even less appealing then hooks for me. I am going for chases not bleedouts, a bleedout only occurs if survivors are really bad or because of bad altruism.
In regards to pressuring gens, I slug one with knockout and then hunt for another on gens while another has to take time to search for the slug. Similar to using a hook but the bonus of survivors not being aware of their altruistic goal. Also even if Im unaware of another survivor in the area, there is a set amount of time before a pickup where as a hook would be immediate.
0 -
How long the survivors spend on the ground is up to their teammates. Removing the 3 strikes of hooks does let them play more. Even if they are bad at chase, they get more chances thus spending more time in chase.
1 -
Slugging for pressure is normal gameplay.
4 man slugging is not until bleedout is not.
2 -
?? So you want to remove bleed out so that people just lie on the ground forever? That would make 4 man slugging legit?
What you've written here doesn't make much sense as stated.
On a more serious note don't confuse your personal predefined idea of what constitutes "normal" play as some form of factual bar set for all players. We've had this discussion before, more than once, and you've still not learned anything.
0 -
Why does the mention of slugging always go directly to the four-man Slug and wait till everybody bleeds out argument?
I can't even say that in the few times I have been slugged as Survivor, even though I found it more enjoyable then hooking, I have ever encountered a killer that waits for the bleed out after getting us all down that way.
I'm not denying that this has happened to people but surely it's not so common that this is the go to idea of slugging. This occurrence is surely more rare than hook camping and personally I've scarcely seen that.
1 -
Neither have you learned anythjng, though I refrained from bringing up that you've continued to defend toxic and abhorrent behavior by staying, "they're just roleplaying."
I have very little interest in speaking to someone like that and I see nothing to gain by doing so.
3 -
Ironically, I usually see it with stronger Killers, like Blight and Nurse rather than with weaker Killers.
I think it's both because it's easier to do with those Killers and because the people doing it clearly had a bad experience and are taking it out on others.
2 -
If this works for you then the survivors are letting it. Not that im condoning anything, but if a killer is simply slugging and not hooking at all then there is a counterplay for that and slugging all 4 at the same time is incredibly rare and if you are literally looking at 4 downed survivors than you sir might actually be the problem
0 -
Unbreakable has entered the room*
0 -
I agree with you that the effectiveness is dependant on the survivors. The amount of time spent slugged is something I leave up to the team's altrusim and bleedouts are rare if not a result of many many downs. Fortunately for most teams this playstyle allows them to correct focus if team altruism is lacking and adapt.
0 -
I love waiting to see how many downs they take before activating it. Props to anyone that waits until endgame.
1 -
I'm not defending anyone and never have, but bleeding out is just gameplay and until BHVR come up with a mechanic that either lessens the impact or works around it its going to stay in game so expect to see it. Which has always been my take on it.
Lastly don't be toxic by hating on someone outside of game because they play in a way you don't like. Defining people's in game choices as abnormal is part of that toxicity.
Its that simple.
The same consistent point I've always made in the hope people may actually stop genuine toxicity rather than hyper-focusing on imaginary toxicity.
1 -
Yeah one of the tools to combat slugging, when used well can save your butt.
I don't get bled out or slugged long enough to often get any real value out of it but if someone had a particular distaste for being slugged then maybe they should consider running it from time to time.
That's why I run lightborn a lot, you don't need it but its a nice lil low effort counter to getting blinded.
The once per trial was probably a bit too much of a nerf though. Deactivates in endgame would probably have been enough.
0 -
The problem with this reasoning is that you can apply it to literally anything, including 'strategies' and exploits that BHVR *has* specifically targeted and removed.
AFK pig, stand-on-the-box Pinhead, double locker flashlight saves, and even the recent 'equip a flashlight to become immune in a locker' thing... All of those were, in your estimation, not just 'perfectly valid until they were removed', but somehow 'saying you don't like it in any way is toxic and shut your mouth'.
That seems like not only an overstep, but also a big enough issue that completely shuts down any discussion that would fix exploits or problematic gameplay in the future.
To be clear, I don't disagree that unless or until BHVR actually deletes something that you will eventually face it in game. That's just how players are.
But saying it's toxic to give an opinion about it is ridiculous, especially about things that BHVR has either removed, or has said flat out that it isn't intended gameplay and a solution is in the works (like 3 genning for an hour).
2 -
I will say if you were handling top tier survivors then you would probably leave with maybe a 1k at best depending on how hard you proxy the slug
0 -
Oh I'll readily admit that when I have faced coordinated/altruistic teams and skilled looping survivors all four Escape no problem. Similarly swf usually don't have a problem either with the only cases of death usually being from the weakest player consistently getting down because they don't avoid the chase. While I'm not singling any one of them out, I'm not going to ignore them just because they've lost too many chases and are about to Bleeding Out.
1 -
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but unhooking is a pretty big component of survivor objectives. Helps with pipping, bp, certain dailies and challenges. So I guess hooking helps the people you are playing with.
0 -
True.
Survivors can also gain those points by pickingup and healing one another. Im not quite sure what the scoring looks like on the survivor end as I dont vs many killers with this playstyle, but for killer it always factors it as survivors having a surplus score for the action of restoring a downed teammate and killer goes negative.
0 -
I honestly don't play against very many slugging killers, so can't say for sure, but I did play against a slugging Sadako on Lerys shortly after her rework and I spent majority of my time picking up downed team mates and I ended up depipping :/
0 -
More BP, easier to defend and keep track of than a crawling slug, survivors die up to 2x as fast (faster if you tunnel), progress doesn't carry over partially from hook state to the next (unlike slugging), strong perks tied to hooking someone (Pop, Scourge Hooks, BBQ).
I don't know, fam. Slug all you want but don't complain when all you get is 1k's. I've had AFC activate on me exactly 0 times since implementation, despite camping a few hook states to secure the kill/2nd state.
0 -
If you're playing Sadako then yeah never hook and just slug for condemned kills.
Otherwise, against good survivors it's usually more difficult to try and slug them all rather than hooking 'em. Even with a slug-focused build it takes a lot of big mistakes on the survivor's part to let you get all 4 slugged at once.
If that's how you wanna play though, go for it, it's just a different win condition.
0 -
There's a youtuber, Bazazell, that has a strat where he slugs rather than hooks, but he's doing it for efficiency, that's what I was imagining.
But you're right, if a killer slugs instead of hooks, there's considerably more chances for survivors to be picked up and play. A survivor might get picked up ten+ times before running out of blood.
Daggone, you might be giving survivors more playtime than any of us.
THIS is a problem we have. Everyone, including myself, confuses slugs for bleed-outs, and they should be separate terms. If slugging is the same as bleeding out, hooking is the same as face-camping for a kill. There's a world of difference in there, and most of us know enough about the game that we should be using accurate terms.
I should've known better. when I turn friendly, I just don't death-hook, I slug so they can see they made a bad choice, but they get to keep playing. And you're completely right, there's lots of points and action to be had while doing so.
DemonDaddy, you blew my mind.
1 -
I did mention it a little, but it's not really an issue if you think about it. I like to do my challenges, but sometimes it's not meant to be. If you're trying to get pallet stuns and I'm your killer, I'm your favorite killer, I'll take 'em. However, if I'm playing Bubba, you should probably wait until your next trial. That's just how the cookie crumbles.
I've failed at kicking-gens because nobody did gens, it's nice to get 'em done quick, but we can't expect anyone to know what we're doing or help. I could just as easily screw up someone's challenge by focusing on my challenge.
0 -
With the hook spawns on maps like swamp I can't even blame you, but other than that don't slug.
0 -
Well hook spawns do tend to be worse on the newer multi level maps, but I stopped using hooks long before survivors started the "cant hook me" memes.
0 -
The reason to hook is if you have hook related perks, duh.
No one said slugging might not be the most optimal killer play. People simply have not reached that conclusion yet, but I would not be surprised if a year from now, hooking survivors is last season and the new optimal and safe strategy is to slug them. It definitely overlooks basekit BT, flashlights etc. and it wastes a lot more time for survivors.
Maybe you're actually playing 4d chess, just waiting to be discovered by someone who wants to prove something to let everyone know it's actually a viable and better strategy than what we're doing now.
0 -
You've completely misunderstood or misinterpreted my point.
AFK pig, stand-on-the-box Pinhead, double locker flashlight saves, and even the recent 'equip a flashlight to become immune in a locker' thing... All of those were, in your estimation, not just 'perfectly valid until they were removed', but somehow 'saying you don't like it in any way is toxic and shut your mouth'.
I've never said pointing out things are exploitative or broken is toxic, I often point out exploitative and broken things myself... But lets look at two common examples of how people point these things out.
- This is broken and needs to be removed, here's why... mechanics, game outcome, impacts fun
- This is broken and needs to be removed and you are a scumbag for doing it. My fun is ruined you are to blame, I'm unhappy and you are scum... insert self righteous rant here and tell people how they should be playing.
You sometimes see amalgamations of these two types of complaint but not often. So which one is toxic?
When it comes to genuine toxicity, its not what happens in game that matters its how you react to it. Overacting about something as inconsequential and unimportant as a computer game and calling other players names over it is genuine toxicity.
This leads to people making arbitrary rules about what they consider "good" or "Normal" play and then expecting those rules to be rigidly followed by other players.
When other players don't follow those "rules", because lets face it they are under no obligation to, we get the inevitable attempts to shame, blame and abuse people over a game.
The only people who ever get really riled up about this when I point it out, tend to be the people who engage in option 2 over option 1.
To bring it back to topic the OP asked why they should use hooks? and there are a bunch of replies saying here's some good reasons why. But sprinkled between those good reasons why are the "play the game normally or properly/don't be scummy" posts that belie the attitudes of the people who would engage in method 2 over method 1 when giving feedback.
2 -
what makes you say that? is 3 man slugging also not normal gameplay? 4 man slugging is not normal to you because nobody does 4 man slugging gameplay. this is because if you just randomly down everyone, it will take an eternity for any survivor to die. that is why nobody dares to do that. killer only dare to consider slugging as strategy when it is 3 or less people. that is because they're not playing to bleed out. they're playing to down everyone then hook everyone. that kinda cements that slugging is not that threatening unless your on verge of winning. Most killer state that once you are in a 3vs1, you are more then likely to close out the match in most instances.
I agree with your post. the gameplay of hooks and slugging is not really that different.
1
