Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Hot take: "It's boring" is rarely a good argument
I see this argument all the time, especially with anti-loop Killers, and it very often feels like it's the lowest hanging fruit possible for someone to have a real reason on why they want something changed, regardless of if it needs any actual change at all.
Obviously there are times where it's a fair point due to a lack of interaction for both sides, such as the recently addressed facecamping. But, for the most part, the subjective nature of what makes something fun, unfun or boring makes the whole "this is boring" feel like a non-argument at best and a personal skill issue being deflected on the game design at worst.
DBD is a game with a TON of content. Not every piece of that content is going to cater to your personal list of what's fun, and that doesn't mean said content needs to be adjusted just so it does. It's better to focus balance discussions towards legitimate problems over what's "boring."
Comments
-
Unfortunately this is a problem as old as human civilization. Everyone has their own opinions and it's extremely rare for a majority of people to agree on anything.
3 -
Obviously there are times where it's a fair point due to a lack of interaction for both sides, such as the recently addressed facecamping. But, for the most part, the subjective nature of what makes something fun, unfun or boring makes the whole "this is boring" feel like a non-argument at best and a personal skill issue being deflected on the game design at worst.
so it’s only a valid argument if you agree with it?
imo, it’s almost always just not enough feedback for the devs to work with but many people lack the ability to articulate what they actually mean with it (eg lack of interaction, lack of actual effort/thoughts being used by the opponent/player etc). But it is very subjective and can definitely be valid and reasonable feedback. And maybe something is boring for some players because they are simply not the target audience for this game..
a huge problem though is people using the argument in bad faith - meaning they fully know what their problem with something is but don’t want to address that for whatever reason and they still try to find some argumentation for something to get changed.
5 -
> so it's only a valid argument if you agree with it?
This is not at all what I said. I said that it's a fair point when there is a genuine lack of interaction for both sides. Facecamping - a situation where the Killer pretty much forgoes playing the entire game to camp one hook while the Survivor on hook doesn't do a damned thing either - would be boring for pretty much everyone except the people who facecamp as their main gameplan. I shouldn't have to spell that out, since most people who regularly play the game are familiar with what it is and it sets a good example of what a "lack of interaction" looks like.
You already said in your own post why it's a bad argument, though. "It's boring" doesn't articulate anything, and often comes from people having issues in their own play that they refuse to acknowledge. I don't find Huntress fun to play against, I'm bad at dodging hatchets and I've been tunneled and camped more by the players playing her than any other Killer. Does that mean Huntress needs to be nerfed? No. Is my frustration with her valid feedback? No, because it comes from my own struggle to outsmart people playing her, which is the opposite sentiment most people using "it's boring" as an argument tend to have.
6 -
According to my Survivor - Killer Dictionary, 'boring' means 'not being able to fully take advantage of every loop like one would against a powerless m1 killer'. Example: "don't go to shack, this trapper made it boring!"
14 -
I've found that "boring" typically means "i have no agency".
6 -
"This is boring" = "Nerf this"
11 -
Not to rain on your parade or anything but DBD is a game. It’s supposed to be fun and interactive and yes, even entertaining.
Sadly, between the devs and this community it’s rarely any of those things anymore.
2 -
Actually, for things i do in my personal time to relax and have fun, boring is quite a good argument. At least to not do them anymore.
1 -
It is completely impossible for every single aspect of a game to be fun and entertaining 100% of the time. Especially in a competitive game like this where both sides are trying to win with mutually exclusive victory conditions.
4 -
The "it's boring" comment often comes from a place where the individual saying this is deflated, beaten and a little fearful that they find something difficult. It's especially hurtful when someone becomes anxious, knowing others somehow deal better with the problem.
Effectively, it's the "flight" aspect in "fight or flight". Someone finds it difficult, so they push away and what better way of creating distance than saying: "I'm bored now, time to move on".
However, I'm sympathetic to those who do say this. Sure, some of it just comes down to a sense of narcissism, but there's also the stigma of feeling laughed at. For example, someone who has difficulty against a Wraith will feel anxious because others may go: "Ah, Wraith is a piece of piss!".
There's only one killer that, in her previous incarnation, could be deemed objectively boring (Skull Merchant), but now that's changed.
1 -
I somewhat agree but keep in mind, this is a game. And for a game there is nothing worse than for it to be boring.
Even if there is something that players absolutely hate, it can still get them to play the game. But when a game becomes boring, then people will stop playing.
1 -
I'll never understand the hatred towards anti loop killers. Looping is an aspect of the game, but its not, nor should it be, the be all end all of Dead by Daylight. Not every killer is meant to be loopable. Some are meant to have strong chase powers that make pallets less and windows less useful. How do you counter this? Don't get chased. How do you keep from getting chased? Don't get caught in the first place. Stealth is an option, you know.
Post edited by Sandt1985 on5 -
I agree. There's a difference between when the game is boring or when particular aspects of it are.
I suppose I should have focused my point to the when people focus the argument on the latter of those things. The game at its core should still be fun.
0 -
Even then, too many boring things are not good.
I think the game is not in a bad spot when it comes to how fun / boring it is but I must say I wish some things from back when I started playing at the beginning of 2021 would come back because I remember them as more fun.
It might be I am romanticising but I would rather play old Haddonfield again than new Haddonfield and that is not because old Haddonfield was so balanced.
1 -
Fun is if you have options, not fun is if there are basically 1 or no options.
0 -
For a game that's supposed to be casual first and most I would definitely expect it to be fun. Even games that are way more competitive than DBD (actually have ranked mode, competitive scene etc.) try very hard to make the game fun for casuals, either by sometimes nerfing certain things that are annoying to deal with on lower ranks (even if those annoying things are no problem on high ranks) or adding additional alternative modes.
On top of that people who are inherently competitive and will do anything to win probably aren't the best judges of what fun means to them, cause fun might be mostly associated with winning in their case. So if winning means using a strategy the equivalent of watching paint dry then they'll do it, cause it's fun for them when they do get to the win. They don't necessarily care for the process of getting there. It's also why the play in the most boring possible because they use the safest and least interactive strategies, cause interaction is inherently more risky. You can't tell me Chess Merchants were actually having fun dragging a game for over 30+ mins, when in the span of that time they could probably have played 4-5 games.
1 -
Thing is, i play both sides, and both are not fun anymore. The problem is the matches are usually very one-sided, so either you win easily, or you just dont stand a chance.
And not having fun is the reason i play way less than half a year before.
1 -
If the majority seem to agree that something is boring then it actually is a good argument. When something is boring people will stop playing which is a bad thing.
1 -
It's over used a lot but complaining about a killer design that there just isn't a reason to want to engage in chase with is still important feedback
0 -
I wasn't aware killers were designed for survivors to want to be chased by them.
2 -
The only reason to play survivor is for interactions with the killer. Would you play alien isolation if there was no alien?
1 -
Pointing out that "boring is not a valid argument for balancing" being a "hot take" really shows why the game is in the state it is and the main problem with this community.
Specially when you take in count what the average survivor concept of "boring" is, which usually means "You don't played how I wanted you to, so I wasn't able to win doing whatever I want".
3 -
I get that but at the same time people in this game genuinely do complain a lot about very minor things. Deathslinger is a huge example of this, people complained that you could not react to his gun if he quickscoped and he could also easily zone with it, while that argument is valid the argument became overexaggerated into he has no counterplay. Yes if caught out in the open he could zone you until he got a hit or quick scope you before you can react but should a killer whose power is solely focused on chase not be able to take advantage of a survivor being caught in a bad spot. He still had plenty of counterplay: use cover, break the chain, if he misses use the opportunity to gain distance and waste more time. But nope, the boring argument won so guess what the devs did, nerfed him into the ground, increased the ads time, increased his terror radius so no more stealth slinger, and slowed movement speed while aiming, but hey I guess he got 2 more meters of distance to shoot which nine times out of ten ends with a broken chain anyways. Not to mention he was not even an overly strong killer at the time either, mid to top b tier at best. My point is with new killers constantly being added, you can't expect an ever-increasing roster to all have unique powers/playstyles while also maintaining 100% 50/50 gameplay in all situations.
3 -
For me it definitely depends on the kind of anti-loop. I personally find player agency and the utilization of that agency during interactions with your opponent to be one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game, and so if a killer's anti-loop power takes no skill to use or only have a single correct option for counterplay, that's when I find certain anti-loop killer powers extremely boring.
For example, Knight can just plop a guard down at a loop and there is only one course of action the survivors can do: leave the loop. On the opposite end of the spectrum are Wesker and Blight, who can do all sorts of mind games and techs with their powers, and can similarly get mind-gamed and teched by survivors into making mistakes, missing, or losing the survivors altogether if a survivor unexpectedly leaves the loop.
In the end it really comes down to player agency. If a player feels that they have no good options for a given scenario, they often come to the conclusion that "X is unfun."
1 -
To me, most of the time when people say its boring i think they really want to mean annoying or frustating (most the second one).
Like, playing against Pyramid/Cenobite/Deathslinger can be quite frustating if you try to loop them like a normal M1 killer, as you can go down without feeling outplayed (not that you weren't outplayed). When playing with those killers, you can get how hard they are to play and how more experienced survivors counters their powers.
TBH, i've been hardly bored while playing DBD and it mostly happens when the other side cannot stand up to the match (the killer takes 3 gen first chase / survivors can't make a single gen in the match) or just want to give up (killing themselves on hook/DC'ing)
0
