594 Days passed since last new Boon was introduced
Seems like it got forgotten pretty quickly. Last Boon was introduced with Sadako chapter, that was 1 year, 7 months and 15 days ago btw.
Comments
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Sticking my neck out as a killer main here, but I'd personally like to see a boon that dampens sounds inside the radius, maybe by like 25/30/35%? I'd also like to see a Hex version that makes survivors louder mapwide by 50%.
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why are we so shy about the survivor numbers
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I don’t see the devs making another boon any time soon. I think they see it as a failed concept. Circle of healing used to be about the only prevalent boon perk but I see it about once every 20 games or so these days.
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Damn... Has it been that long? I can't believe how long ago that was. It was Dark Theory too. Devs dipping their toes in Haste related perks. I remember everyone and big content creators freaking out about it only for nobody to end up using it...
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As a killer focused player, I agree with you.
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Maybe because boons benefit 4 survivors for one perk slot that is reusable. In contrast to that killer get the one to one ratio plus permanent removal.
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Best thing they can do is make shattered hope base kit and then buff the boons.
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This is a pretty great idea.
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Boons were an interesting experiment in giving survivors an actual secondary objective that they could voluntarily spend time on instead of gens first thing in the game, but they are far too weak or so incredibly niche they are literally not worth the time investment.
Take the 'best' boon in its current form: circle of healing. The bonus isn't worth 14 seconds of setup time (which you may get zero value from), travel time, and you still need a second player. Compare that to we'll make it, with the exact same bonus, is portable, and has no setup or travel time. That's at least 20+ extra seconds you can spend on gens at the very start of the game, just by not running a boon perk. And that's all assuming you even want to bother healing in the first place. Why would you ever run the boon now?
If the 'best' boon in the game is just we'll make it with extra steps, then I hope they never waste time on this concept again.
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The only boon that was worth the time investment was old coh. Every other boon is bad and I think BHVR has realized this and decided to just not make more boons.
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Because Boons are a failed concept. Except for CoH, every other Boon was outright bad (with Shadow Step being borderline okish). So I am quite happy to not see any more Boons nowadays, Survivors very rarely get good Perks and a Boon-Perk would most likely mean that there is another terrible Perk around which would only be used in Adepts.
And even CoH is now really bad and they should have just kept the state of it before the most recent Nerf and make Boons work on one Floor only.
But currenty, there is no way the time investment is worth anything for any Boon around. You cannot really afford to spend 14 seconds away from Gens in the current Slowdown-Meta and especially when you are not in a SWF, having more than one person running around setting up Boons is almost already a loss.
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Unfortunately Boons are one of those perks, that is a waste of time for solo, and pretty viable in a SWF. Which is really sad. I remember buying Mikaela for CoH, but I still love her. And that boon actually incentivized me to learn some totem spawns on maps, so I would not waste too much time looking for them. At least that knowledge is good for bringing Inner Healing which is a decent counter for Sloppy Butcher.
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Yeah, thats a big reason. You cannot really afford to run Boons in Solos, but in a 4 man-SWF you can have one person with a Boon-Perk and coordinate way better.
I just really dislike Boons because nowadays, whenever a Boon is set up, it is always a waste of time. And when CoH was still used frequently, I also disliked it and did not think it was that good, because CoH does not do anything if you die regardless because the team is not on Gens.
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I know, that has been my experience as well. I remember a very specific game in Sanctum of Wrath I belive (or maybe Yamaoka estate). I had not even gained 1 single devotion yet. I was playing Cheryl and Mikaela is off to find a totem. I start getting chased for a while and I go down because I come across Mikaela still looking for a totem who bodyblocked me from passing.
Mikaela's are either noobs or super selfish (except me ofc :p)
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Same I bought her and I swear COH got nerfed I don't know when I stopped playing in November 2022 and came back properly in May 23 and I wasn't sure if my game was broken and then I realized it was nerfed.
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I must have taken the same break as you (I stopped around early December and came back in Spring I believe). I mean I still love Mikaela cause I love witches, but yeah. her perks are kinda underwhelming atm. I'm not sure I miss CoH though, I thought it was kind of a boring style ngl, but perhaps it made solo a tiny bit more bearable? I am not so sure. When i used it the most I was even more inexperienced, so I don't have a correct frame of reference. I do like the idea of boons though, I just wish it was easier to hide them and they weren't such a time waster on solo.
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The issue with boons is that they're very rigid in their design. They all have the exact same parameters, which works for some, and doesn't work for others.
If CoH had had its radius nerfed, it would've been a healthier nerf than what it got.
If Dark Theory were to have its radius expanded, it could be a very decent perk.
You can fiddle with set-up times, cooldowns upon a boon getting snuffed out, maybe even a timer on certain boons, there's lots of room for improvement and creativity so long as you don't stick to 'boon' as an all-encompassing term that dictates every single parameter of every single boon perk.
But I also think that it's a waste of time because it's going to get complained about. Before CoH was nerfed, boons as a whole also got complaints because 'why can't I relight my hexes then!?' or 'Totems should break when I snuff a boon!'. The 14 second set-up time happens out of sight of the killer, and for a lot of people on these forums, that means it happens out of mind, too.
So as much as I think that, reasonably, you can still do plenty with boons, I also think it's probably a waste of time because there will just be complaints again, non-stop.
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I still like her since she has nice outfits but I've gone back to Yui for a while but yeah shadow step is decent but COH was an amazing perk but it was a bit of a crutch perk to be honest. I did come back briefly when I heard the first original three character chapter came out and after 10 matches I stopped and I'm sure you can guess why. I did come back properly in May though.
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As soon as i saw the title i thought of this
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Saving 8sec of healing sounds nice in concept, but its not.
Usually Boon Coh stays away from Gens, example we have this unhooking position.
Without using Boon, 2 survivors lost 47sec that not spending on Gens (assume 1 dash line takes 1 second to run)
Using Boon, 2 survivors lost 55sec not spending on Gens, this is not even counting 14sec to bless
I saw too many survivors run to Boon to save 8sec, but actually they lost much more time.
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When everyone was running it, it was hell if the killer had Eruption + other gen perks. You would probably lose all progress you made on a gen by going to heal, since on solo you didn't know where the gen with the biggest progress was.
I think CoH was a way to bypass the whole slowing down gens things, since you could potentially have infinite healthstates, and I think it also incentivized survivors to make bad decisions trying to get value out of it, instead of prioritizing gens for example.
That's why it was probably so OP, because in a 4 man SWF that somewhat cares about the game, you can have one guy running a boon perk and everyone can heal fast themselves and the other 3 can double up on a gen for example (if there's 1 or 2 left and killer is trying to 3-gen), but on solo it could make it easier to throw games, because people were convinced they had to boon a totem everytime CoH was snuffed.
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The ability to self heal indefinitely is one of the strongest aspect survivors can have, so no, just reducing the radius of coh was not going to be enough. That perk needed to go
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Why introduce more boons when one side is just going to cry and throw temper tantrums until they are nerfed into garage tier?
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boons are useless now like more then ever.
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Saying that boons are a failed concept because CoH is the only one that truly became meta is like saying scourge hooks are a failed concept because only Pain Res also became meta.
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Boons are designed around being infinitely reusable and AoE. Meaning that any effect on them must be weak to offset. You'll either get a CoH situation where the boon is way too strong and warps the game around it or you get boons that are just not worth the effort to set up.
Probably for the best we haven't gotten more of them.
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I think because of the huge storm that coh kicked up because of how insane it was they are probably nervous because they might accidentally create another one. It would be nice to see some boons for sure though, as a killer even the current boons I see one in every 20 games.
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Boons have the same problem that hex perks have.
For boons to actually be useful, they have to actually be useful, meaning that they are going to be OP. Look at circle of healing for example. It was basically a perk run every single game before the healing nerf. And because boons can be set up all the time and have infinite usage, if they are strong, they will be OP.
On the flip side, hex perks have the same problem. They get cleansed super quick and you rarely get more than a minute or 2 of use out of them, unless RNG kicks the survivors in the teeth, and they can't find that totem spot and then they get hit with a game ending devour hope, meaning that the devs are afraid to make them strong. Look what they did to ruin for example, a perk that wouldn't even be good anymore even if it wasn't a hex perk.
The entire totem/Hex/Boon system needs to be reworked before they start adding more.
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I think the concept of boons didn't go far enough. They were all too samey in how they worked and useless in some ways. There should have been boons that worked without a radius, or boons that worked anywhere on the map but were temporary or a one time use etc.
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Self-care OP.
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Mainly because boons can be replaced and hexes can't.
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As long as boons are in the state they are, I'm perfectly happy that we haven't gotten any new ones in over a year.
The problem is their core design holds them back too much and ultimately I think it comes down to this: there's no fair way to buff them as long as they are unlimited in nature. I still think in order to make boons better there needs to be some form of permanent counterplay to them, whether that be basekit Shattered Hope (without the aura reading) or something else, and then rebalancing the existing boon perks with that in mind (or at least the weaker ones). In other words, snuffing a boon totem needs to be actually worth the killer's time, and no boon can have an effect that is too oppressive far away from the killer because the killer doesn't have time to go actively search out a boon totem far away from the action. That was one major component of why the old Circle of Healing was so broken, but the others don't really have that problem in their current state.
CoH is still a good perk, btw. It's just not free self-resets for the entire team anymore with self-healing speeds faster than the current medkits, which was absurdly overpowered. But most of the other boons right now are not really that good or are too situational, but at the same time wouldn't be fair if they weren't. So they're in a bad spot and I don't think they can really be individually fixed by only adjusting the perks directly.
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Yes. They should call it "Boon: Cone of Silence" and the survivor should be the guy from Get Smart.
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The problem is their core design holds them back too much and ultimately I think it comes down to this: there's no fair way to buff them as long as they are unlimited in nature. I still think in order to make boons better there needs to be some form of permanent counterplay to them, whether that be basekit Shattered Hope (without the aura reading) or something else, and then rebalancing the existing boon perks with that in mind (or at least the weaker ones).
That really cannot work. The amount of power that would have to be on those boons would have to be so excessive, killers would blow a fuse immediately. Probably rightly so.
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Now that COH has been gutted, I feel they could make boons see some more use again by increasing the range on them back up.
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Just having botany paired with it makes it most worth to self heal in most situations, provided your team mate goes immediately to a gen (which is what theyre supposed to do)
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For boons it would be great if the killer could distroy it and then it‘s broken.
Afterwards the survivor could repair (30s)the totem and then bles it again.
Also the killer should be able to decide we if he wants to distroy or just unbles it.
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I wish they had gone with a charge system.
Rough concept: the survivor finds a totem and blesses it, this would disable the boon perk the rest of the game (this should give some equivalence to hexes). The totem is now charged with magic and, taking CoH for example, would have 4 health states worth of charge. Once the charges are all depleted, the totem would fizzle out and become unusable again (unless you had pentimento I guess).
Extending this system out, exponential could allow 4 self pickups, the one that stops scratch marks would only deplete while a survivor is running and in the radius, and I forget what the last boon does off the top of my head.
I think that would allow boons to be a bit more powerful since it would take away the infinite use.
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Well, then they aught to hire more creative minds to come up with new ones. CoH was fun, I bought Mikaela just for that only to see it nerfed.
I loved bringing that and helping my team out, I felt like the game had roles, healer, gen rusher, kiter now it's just...idk, homenogized med kits and same stuff, different day.
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boons problem is just radius. your circle is correct because of 24 meter radius. if you blue circle was bigger then survivor would spend less time walking and more time gaining benefits from said boon perks. I don't think the concept is failed. it just poor has numbers currently.
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Dark theory & Expo definitely needed a buff, but I dont think the strength, but the radius. It has to be at least 32m. Though Coh is always remain the problems that its against how Boons supposed to work (high risk high reward) when it stays away from Gens rather than working in chase like others.
CoH is really need to be removed and replaced with a completely new Boon perk.
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The thing I never understood was that killer mains wanted survivors to have a secondary objective and boons (CoH, really) filled that task. But it was complained about—rightly or wrongly—until its nerf. Now no one really runs any boon perks, and it leaves me thinking killer mains want a mandatory second objective for survivors that has no benefit whatsoever to the survivor, which is unrealistic. I think boon perks are best forgotten.
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That is the thing and also the reason why I never thought that CoH (pre the latest nerf, obviously, Release and shortly after was busted) was that good. Because there are no designated roles in DBD. Yes, you can identify yourself as the Healer of the team. But it does not help if two other people also think they are the healer and 3 people run around blessing Boons.
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This is about right. The thing is, whenever something is nerfed, we see a speed up in Gen Time, because it becomes less viable to do other things. Boons are not worth blessing anymore. With every Healing Nerf we see less people actually going for Heals, because Healing Nerfs drive them away from healing (that basically every Killer is using something to apply Mangled is also increasing this).
Killers also talk about a secondary Objective, but from what I read, it looks like they want it on top of 90 second-Gens. At least I have never seen some Killer Main say that Gen Time should be decreased and a secondary Objective should be added.
Secondary Objectives either need to reward Survivors (other than "you escape", because this is already the reward for completing Generators) OR if there is no reward, actual Gen Time needs to decrease (e.g. searching for parts which should take on average 40 seconds, followed by 50 seconds of Gen Repair).
Because the sad thing is, currently there is not really much you can do outside of Gens and probably Healing against a Killer who is not completely incompetent. Because you will be faced with at least 2 Slowdown-Perks which further increase Gen Time.
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I have a crazy idea, they should make it that booning a totem gives specific extra buffs to the perk. Like making it silent when it first gets booned, making it silent in general, making it not glow for killer, increase its radius, increase its strength. So for this kind of buff to totems we trade the unlimited nature of boons and only make them viable for 5 blessings.
Now whether those are random or you can see what effect each totem will give your boon is up for debate, but I think knowing will give some tactical choice (as opposed to RNG). Like do you choose the totem that doesn't let its presence known when it gets booned, or one that is hard to hear, or one that cannot be seen etc.?
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because boons are unlimited.
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Well after reading the comments here I will answer some things:
Some say why can survivors bless the totem indefinitely? Also, why can't the killer break Totem instead of removing the boon effect?
-The reason is that the survivors are unable to protect the totems in any way, and if the killer wants to remove the boons, he will do so, and the survivor cannot do anything about it.
-If we make shattered hope basic, then the killer can destroy all the totems quite easily , This punishes the survivors who place boon in strategic places or good places. This also creates other problems as perks like Noed cannot be activated because all the totems are destroyed (maybe some people don't care, but there are some who do)
Is boon a failed concept?
-No, it is still useful as long as you put it in good places and not in far away or bad places like the corner of the map (who goes there?)
-The fact that the developers made some perks cooperate with boons shows that they have not given up on boons perks, and this also shows that it is not a failed concept.
-Some Boons are good but have weak effects like Dark Theory and they can still improve it to be good
What makes some people think that it is a failed concept is the excessive use of it by some people, who make it a priority over generators ,also, the totem locations on some maps are very bad
That's it
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it does not matter if they are unlimited, if their effects are inconsequential like in that suggestion
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Killers also talk about a secondary Objective, but from what I read, it looks like they want it on top of 90 second-Gens. At least I have never seen some Killer Main say that Gen Time should be decreased and a secondary Objective should be added.
Secondary Objectives either need to reward Survivors (other than "you escape", because this is already the reward for completing Generators) OR if there is no reward, actual Gen Time needs to decrease (e.g. searching for parts which should take on average 40 seconds, followed by 50 seconds of Gen Repair).
killer never said gen time should be decreased because gens fly too fast passively. all that 90 second generator accomplished is that it made early game less volatile for killer. On most killers that do not have bad early games, you are less likely to lose 3 gens in first chase. now it is more like 2 gens loss on first chase and like 70% of 3rd gen vs efficient team. I am not saying that you cannot lose 3 gens in first chase as killer but you have less probability to lose 3 gens compare to before.
there only two possible secondary objectives in the game for survivor. the first is hex totems. the issue with those is same as issue with gen defence perks. your requiring killer equip perks in order to stall the game. Think of Original hex:Undying+200% Hex:Ruin. in other words killer has no perk variety. The other secondary objective is healing. The problem with healing is that survivor have no obligation to heal. The longer you make healing take, the more likely survivor are to play injured entire trial because at some point, healing becomes impractical time investment such that working on generator injured is superior win condition then healing. Survivor will not perform secondary objectives that make them lose. they will just endure any penalty and push through the drawback. For example, hex:ruin is perfect example of secondary objective in totems that many survivor would not cleanse unless they happen to come across totem due to bvhr's terrible totem placements. the strongest teams on survivor would rush gens through hex:ruin when old undying was in the game because the cost benefit of searching 5 hex totems was worse then just powering gens through Hex:ruin. people do this all the time with hex:plaything where they ignore totem because of cost-benefit of hex:pentimento perk. They rather endure hex:plaything oblivious than waste time cleansing totem only to get 30% slowdown on hex:penti. Healing and Sloppy butcher is another example of how people ignore healing because cost benefits of healing diminish such that working on generator injured is superior then wasting time healing. that is summary to why secondary objectives do not really work too well in dbd. if secondary objective makes survivor lose, survivors will just ignore any penalty and push through it. This is summary to why secondary objectives do not work very well at slowing down the game for killer. Primary gen-delay is far superior.
now that we talked about why secondary game-delay is irrelevant. the current issue for killers is lack of perk variety and gameplay variety. spreading out hooks killer is losing game proposal currently because killer spend time chasing survivors but they do not get rewarded for downing survivors quickly. there is lack of comeback mechanics for killer that do not tunnel on involuntary/voluntary scale. Killer need automatic geme-delay for succeeding chases because after they lose 2-3 gens from early game. Killers need a way to stabilize the game when they are successful in the chases. without that, killer will continue to tunnel to shortcut wins by strategically hooking two people because there is not enough time to go for 8-10 chases. A example of base-game delay mechanic for killer would be SC:Pain res on every hook. this would make killer less reliant on gen defence because they would have some default dynamic game-delay to stabilizing the match.
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The typical requirements for these 'secondary objectives' are that survivors must waste time on them, they are mandatory to escaping or even progressing the game, and the objective can't be beneficial for survivors (boons) or in any way detrimental to the killer (breaking hexes).
So it's just a longer way of saying 'more gens' at this point.
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