is purposefully doing nothing but hiding for 25+ minutes be considered taking the game hostage?
I had 2 surivivors doing this to me when I got my second kill with 4 gens left, they did nothing at all but hiding for at least 25 minutes until I found and closed the hatch 5+ minutes later (wanted payback), I know the game will end after a hour or so and bla bla bla, but they aren' t playing, they are simply wasting my time without cheating, can it still be considered keeping me hostage?
Edit: The game lasted a total of 36 minutes or so, the 25 minutes is the time they did nothing after my second kill, it was in the swamp map so it's extremely hard to find survivors that only wants to hide.
Best Answers
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I'm very sure that's holding the game hostage, but I've never seen or heard about a survivor getting punished for doing that.
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Doing nothing but hiding trash is behavior for sure, but technically not holding the game hostage, I don't think. Doing nothing but hiding is also so easy a lobotomized monkey could do it effectively, but they have to be doing something to avoid getting crows.
At 25+ minutes I'd probably still report it, though. That's just a stupid long time to be playing asinine games like that.
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I believe so. my advice is when that happens, check the basement. for some reason crows dont work well down there (probally because they can keep moving around down there)
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I'd say it is, but it can't really be punished. 2 Survivors at 4 gens have no chance of doing them, so the only right play is to hide and wait for the other survivor to die, which then causes a deadlock. (especially if they're good and the killer can't find either of them). The previous iteration of the hatch (where it spawned early and multiple escapes through it were possible) didnt have this issue, but as well all know that had it's own glaring issues.
The survivors need something to incentivize coming back out into the open.
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In my opinion it should be.
I faced a full troll premade a few months ago whose purpose was hidding for inducing a DC from me I guess. They put the Badham offering (the map in which more easy is to stay hidden in the game) and with stealth builds, I managed to kill two of them and when there were two of them remaining I couldn't find them, I even stayed afk for about 10 minutes to see if they get bored and start to make gens but they didn't and when I was about to DC I found one of them in a locker and of course I camped him.
I've said this several time in the forum but for me the solution for this problem is making the survivor get the crows if the killer didn't interact with any survivor for more than 5 minutes, even if they're moving.
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Answers
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The whole match lasted 36 minutes from what they said, so if it is a offense i'll 100% report it.
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Survivors often give up in situations like this, but also don't like rewarding the killer in a hopeless situation. Gens required to power the exit gate should scale based on how many survivors are left. 2 survivors needing to do 4 gens to escape isn't worth it, and will rarely end well for them. The game can change too quickly in favor of the killer, so there needs to be balance in this regard.
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I tried, but the swamp is easy to hide into.
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they need to disable that map until its reworked. its unbalanced and just ugly af. iv been taking bans because ill dc the moment I get it lol
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See, to me this is an ego thing. At 2 dead with 4 gens remaining, the game is over, there is no "winning". Just let it go.
Only in situations where the killer was really being an ass would I find it more worth my time to hide than to just die and move on.
When I find myself in a similar situation as a surv, I'll lay low for a couple of minutes, but if/when it becomes clear the other remaining surv is committed to hiding, I'll just out myself or go jump on a gen.
And in some cases, in situations where two survs remain in an unwinnable situation, the killer will spare one still trying to play and hunt down the hider. It's just more "honorable" if you want to call it that.
Two people taking up half an hour scumming for hatch (which isn't a win in any meaningful sense anyway) is just pathetic behavior.
Proposing that the parameters of the game to change to constantly keep the odds even after the killer has worked to get them in their favor sounds ridiculously entitled, tbh. In DBD, you live and die based on your team, for the most part; it's what you sign on for when choosing survivor, for better or worse. No one is entitled to a constantly evolving path to victory, or for things go "go well for them".
Think about the reverse - if the killer gets and unfriendly map and a team brings in a bunch of souped up tool boxes and slams out 3-4 gens before the killer gets more than a down or two, should the game parameters change to "balance" the new situation? Of course not, that's just absurd. Survs would riot, and justifiably so.
Have the dignity to go out fighting, take the L and move on.
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Yeah i had this happen as well , it's the most common way for toxic survivors to get a ego boost that it wasn't their fault.
Often they go in the basement and walk from locker to locker to avoid crows
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I refuse to play hide and seek. if its 4-5 gens and its just me and another person then I often will go to the killer, sadly though they just want to slug and leave you to bleed out while the other survivor just sits in a corner.
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The game is over when either the last survivor escapes or the last survivor is eliminated. If the norm is to be just eliminate 2 survivors and you win then there is no incentive for survivors to keep trying at this point. They have to become perfect at the game for the same outcome. This is a fairness and balance issue. The problem in these situations is that the favor of the match too quickly shifts to the killer. If there were scaling in gen requirements based on survivor eliminations it would still be fair for the killer, because they still have 2 eliminations and only need 2 more. If less gens were required and they repaired faster based on the circumstance it would give the remaining survivors more incentive to play and try. The killer should gain an advantage in these situations, but not this much of an advantage. Even when 1 survivor is eliminated a lot of survivors just simply give up or don't try as hard because they can already see how it is likely going to end and the truth is, they're usually right.
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Devs have said before that it is. If the survivors are not attempting to make progress on the game (I.E. do generators) they are holding the game hostage.
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That kind of situation, survs not doing gens but hiding all the time, is the prime example of taking the game hostage by the survivor side, maybe even the only valid example for it that survivors can enforce (apart from cheating / glitching / bug abuse).
It's actually not that difficult to decide whether a situation falls into that criteria: Just evaluate if the situation can solve itself in a reasonable time frame without the "abusing" player changing their playstyle. If thats not possible, the "abusing" player is taking the game hostage. (Corrolar: If you cannot get out of the game without dc'ing or waiting for the "mercy" of another party, you are taken hostage).
So, if a killer slugs for the 4k, thats no hostage situation bc. the slugged player will eventually die in max. four minutes. A killer body blocking a survivor into a corner is fine, as long as the game can still bei finished (by other survs) or EGC will kill the trapped survivor. In contrast, a killer body blocking the last survivor when EGC ist NOT running is taking the game hostage against the surv, bc. that situation does not clear in its own until the killer frees the blocked survivor.
So with the initial situation, since survivors can avoid detection very consistently when not doing any objektives and just hiding, it's pretty much up to their whim to clear this situation, but the game (currently) cannot do this (technically it CAN with the max round time of 60 minutes, but thats no "reasonable time frame"). So the survivors are taking the game hostage here.
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EGC should start after 15 min, leading to the end of a round after about 17-19min mark
Nothing more annoying than a loooong DbD game
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Funny how when im in situations like this, ive never been punished for it. Maybe i was reported, but they never done anything about it. And tbh, why would they? In a situation where its unwinnable for one side. It resorts to hide and seek at that point which used to be the point of it all in the early days(devs said it themselves). But now that we kinda moved away from that, I still believe that survivors shouldnt be punished for it. Its an oversight on the devs part.
Just as with tunneling and camping when the killer has no means of winning, survivors hide when hope is lost. We cant report them for doing it, so why should survivors be reported for resorting to a desperate tactic to win themselves.
And all this honestly brings up further discusssions on good sportsmanship on both side. One side, survivors are held to a higher standard. Punished for working with killers. But killers arent when working with survivors.
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That's the sucky thing. If the other survivor is hiding, I'll always plant myself on a gen because i don't want to play hide and seek. But there's a good chance doing so just leaves you slugged on the ground. It's a lose-lose situation either way.
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The game currently shuts down after 60 minutes. I'd wager very very few people would be upset if they dropped it down to 30 minutes. I feel like 30 minutes is extremely generous.
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This comment alone, should be forwarded to every Dev’s inbox, daily. Why after 7 freaking years they still have yet to implement sth similar to this and make every match somewhat more of a actual game and not just the typical boring, stale scenario speaks volumes.
This game could have SO much more flavor, fr
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Is it a violation? Pretty sure, but its really hard to prove. I don't think the game actually records a lot of meta data (example, how frequently a survivor touches a gen). So the survivors can just say they were trying really hard to finish a gen while remaining stealthy.
It's also an issue because devs have said playing for hatch is valid, but there is no clear line on where the dividing line is. 25 minutes is probably clearly over the line, but I can't say for sure were the devs would actually say.
I think the problem with this, without some type of modification to EGC, is that if the time is too low players will just hide for that mark. Happened all the time in Deathgarden, if the scavs (survivors of that game), had a bad start, players would just hide until the enforced end game event happened.
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depends, did you let them do anything but hide or die?
Also if you play on PC, and tap escape, there is a "leave game" button you can press. If you haven't used it too often in the past it should give you a minute of a time out and you can go on with your games.
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So because survivors are losing they should have easier winning conditions? Why? You won't win every game you are in and it doesnt give you an excuse to hide 40 minutes from the killer. Ive had multiple survivors try to hide from me so i will DC and give the win to them. I've reported every single one of them.
This is why ultimate weapon is in my arsenal since it helps me find these corner hopping hiders. If you are losing the game just accept it and try to do the gens. Don't become annoyance and entitled because the game didnt go your way.
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So how much rubber-banding would survivors need to entice them into finishing the game instead of acting like idiot children?
It's not worth it to try and won't end well, so waiting out the 1 hour timer is reasonable? They need another option? How about playing the ######### game?
If survivors don't want to reward the killer when the killer is winning, that means the goal is to punish the killer for winning. Griefing is also against the rules, isn't it? Two players working together to ruin the game for another, just to be a**holes.
And you think they should get a buff. Wow.
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Is it actually reportable? Had a game a few months back where a legion was able to kill 2 of my teammates and took forever to catch me cause he kept hitting me with his feral frenzy and going into fatigue state multiple times
meanwhile my last teammate alive kept moving around the map with urban evasion cleansing totems back and forth and didn’t touch a single gen
that match was about 40 minutes long because of that
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I don't think the scenario in question has much to do with "punishing" the killer. I think it's more survivor vs survivor at that point. They're both hoping to outlast each other.
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I think Gen time should be dropped to 80sec. But 4 survivors alive requires 6 of 8 Gens complete to power the Gates. 3 alive requires 5 Gens, 2 alive requires 4 Gens.
Means if a survivor is on last hook with 5 Gens done. If that survivor get sacrificed, the Gates will be powered, which killers prefer to chase/hook other survivors. This change would make tunneling less encouraged.
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Yes, the devs have said that if none of the remaining survivors work on gens for an extended period of time (they won't say exactly how long), then it's holding the killer hostage and is reportable.
Of course, this doesn't help the killer whose options are to search the entire map multiple times over attempting to find the survivors, wait for the match to end at the hour mark, or disconnect and eat the penalty.
The devs need to find a real way of dealing with this. As long as one survivor is attempting gens, the others can hide behind rocks and locker hop and it's perfectly fine within the game's rules. It's completely garbage game design. I don't know what the devs expect when it's down to two survivors, but at least one is going to play for the hatch, and it's ridiculous to expect otherwise in a game that's designed around playing selfishly. The bots play for the hatch, for god's sake. Why do I have to work on gens when the bot gets to stealth around the edges of the map waiting for me to die?
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Thats actually interesting!
It would allow you to 3 gen only against 4 ppl, the second you sacrifice / kill one you would lose the 3 gen and power the gates. Might cause some slugging of death hook survivors. But then again, if you got into that situation, its inrevertable, the gates will be powered one way or another. Against 3 ppl remaining, you would have to hold a 4 gen, and against 2 ppl remaining a 5 gen. That scales really well, and gives the 3 / 2 ppl a more managable goal (at least more manageable than now). I really like that suggestion :).
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Good idea
What would you have in mind for killer with 1 or 2 hooks at 0-1 gens for a "balance/catch-up" mechanic?
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depends, did you let them do anything but hide or die?
What is the killer supposed to do? Leave them alone on gens for a minute while waiting in a corner or the basement? (Btw even this often doesn't do anything, I left such an outstealthing-each-other-for-hatch-match for 30 minutes and nothing had changed when I came back)
Also if you play on PC, and tap escape, there is a "leave game" button you can press. If you haven't used it too often in the past it should give you a minute of a time out and you can go on with your games.
Ah okay, so abandone the match, lose all BP, depip and get a leaver Penalty because the survivor couldn't take the L.
Why didn't anyone tell that to blocked in survivor back when holding the game hostage came up for the first time, such an easy solution. /S 🤦
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They shouldn't feel like they have to. The situation should feel winnable within reason to the circumstance. More difficult yes, but not so much where the last 2 survivors just want to give up.
I'm saying the game should scale as it progresses, which is within reason. My suggestion was also meant to discourage survivors from hiding in these situations. I'd rather they be incentivized to keep playing rather than risk being punished for not. By the way, survivors start losing the very moment a survivor is downed and even more so when they become hooked. The objectives now become split and recovering from hook saves hinders gen progression based upon how aggressive the killer is and how fast they can recover from the situation. If survivors feel too pressured, giving up may seem like the better option for them than progression. Scaling the match would solve a lot of this by creating more incentives to keep playing rather than giving up. The old hatch system worked this way. The gens required to make it spawn was based upon how many survivors were still in the match. Gens required to power the exit gate should scale in a similar way.
Scale it both ways.
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This is an interesting idea. It would encourage killers to seek out other survivors more often rather than tunneling 1-2 down early since they know it would cause the exit gate to require less gens to be powered. There are multiple ways the game could scale based on the situation that would encourage players to keep playing and even play in more creative ways. Incentivizing progress continuation is the key here.
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Its alot more complicated. I mean, each survivor has 1 hook with 3 Gens left is alot more fair; than 1 survivor has double hooks with 3 Gens left (its killer winning if tunnel them out, or survivor winning if not).
But survivors need alot of encouragement mechanic to play the match if 1 teammate dies early. As for me, I will stay under hook if a teammate dies at 4 Gens, I really dont see anything wrong, killers wanted to get kills that hard, I will give them for free.
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Sadly I haven't seen those survivors getting punished for that.
All I can advise you is try to focus on crows flying (someone's near), crows sitting (someone moved crow 15 sec ago).
If you find basement is not where they are hiding, check multi floor sections and corner of map.
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Is it against the game rules when a survivor spends the entire game excessively hiding, because their literal game strategy is to wait for everyone else to die so they can get a hatch or EGC escape?
I've seen streamers do things like pick Wake Up/Sole Survivor/Left Behind, tell chat the strategy is to wait for everyone else to die, and then spend multiple games hiding far away from generators, just watching everyone else die, because that's their literal game strategy.
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The hatch is obsolete and should be completely eliminated, there is no further discussion. Why should the survivors need a pyrrhic victory after being crushed? It would be like giving killers something similar to a base kit Rancor for a 50% chance to kill the survivors after failing doing their main objetive. It would be an acceptable victory? No. So, why does the hatch exist again?
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Because without it, the last 2 survivors would do exactly what this topic is about, but it would last for the whole 60 minutes.
Its a bad mechanic that should be reworked (preferably in some way that rewards the player who doesn't give up) but its kinda necessary to prevent lengthy hostage taking.
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How did a Hatch spawn for you to close if there were two people alive?
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New players would never get that hint though. Maybe if the devs spelled it out a little better. One of the games slogans is "A Deadly Game of Hide and Seek." So if they're new then I really don't blame the players. We all have to put the blame where it belongs. The devs should have systems in place for these types of things. Is anyone really surprised that they don't...? xD
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This is something that should been changed long ago. In tcm you can still escape in 2vs3 situation if you play well and it's not hopeless like dbd. They should do something in 2vs1 to allow them small chance.
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I dont know why it would be punishable since there's already a system in place, if they idle for too long they will get crows flying on top of them, they have to move
Let them do a generator or try look for crows, they can't sit still or a crow will snitch on them.
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I don't disagree with you, just saying that it has been stated by them. Personally i think this could all be solved if they change the rules for crows to basically be like.
You start to get crows after 2.5 minutes unless you do one of the following:
- Get into a chase
- Get injured
- Get downed
- Do a conspicuous action for 10 seconds
2.5 minutes should be plenty of time to account for things like OTR, corrupt intervention etc, and requiring a conspicuous action for 10 seconds means you can't just tap a gen and keep hiding in a locker for 2.5 minutes and repeat.
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Catch up mechanics are not needed. Keep your "everyone gets a trophy" mentality out of this please. If survivors are in an unwinnable position and choose to hide instead of trying to do gens; well that says more about their fragile ego than anything else. Take your medicine and move on
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i love how wasting time like this or hanging around the gate is okay for survivors but when the killer decides they want one more kill it instantly isn't okay.
it is taking the game hostage, and should be bannable but hey.
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While it may be frustrating, I don’t think there is anything bannable about it. If this is a frequent problem, bring perks such as Iron Maiden or Spies, they should have a hard time hiding with these.
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What if there are two survivors left and the killer slug one person, right? Then the other survivor refuses to pick up the down survivor cuz said survivor want the hatch? Would you call that griffing or is it legal?
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hatch doesn't do anything against a 2 survivors taking hostage situation AND they are doing it to get hatch.
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Here is the thing, this game sometimes tilts people, after a few bad matches if a few survivors feel like the killer only gives them the option to die if found and cannot do their objectives, and is relentless, then yeah, I can totally see people showing the proverbial middle finger and eff with the killer. I don't endorse it but I won't willfully turn a blind eye to the reality of the sentiments of this community.
And i honestly meant the leave game option. It might be hard to swallow (although why exactly?), but it is a practical solution. Much more time effective than spending 10-20-30 more minutes in a game.
SO if someone is unwilling to use it, and stays in the game and comes here to rant about being hostage, then what is really keeping him hostage in the game? The tilted survivors, or his own pride?
There are alot of a$$holes out there, you'll meet a lot of them in life, grow up and learn to deal with it the right way: ignore those who only seek your attention to drag you down. You prove nothing by engaging with them, you won't feel vindicated when the game finally ends one way or the other. You'll be just more upset and more emotional and not the right way.
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