So, when are the developers finally going to do something about stacking premades?
Per title. It is no secret that the most overpowered thing in this game is a premade on comms with every meta perk and stacked item possible. It is all you face after playing the game for a while and the main reason people lobby dodge.
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They have. They are refusing to nerf nurse so she is probably their answer. Just use her and you can easily demolish 99% of all teams you meet in public lobbies.
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Sure Otzdarva how about you show us some proof of your winstreak.
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Maybe Nurse is the strongest killer in the game but she is boring af to play and some ppl don't even touch her since she is so difficult to master so bringing Nurse into this discussion is not a valid point. For reference I haven't played against a Nurse in like 3-4 weeks.
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Nurse isn't hard to master. But besides that, she is boring to play. This discussion is not about me winning or loosing. But it is about them being grossly overpowered and thus making 95% of the killer roster unviable. It is really sad. The gap between even a good solo team and a good premade is miles apart. The game should not be like this.
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They are never gonna do that cuz SWFs will never find matches, ppl will be constantly dodging SWF lobbys and their cue times would be insane and if a killer would decide to play against them he will probably be one of those sweaty tunneling killers that would make the game extremely "unfun" for them and that will lead to more problems and complains and ppl crying on twitter XD
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Can you blame people though for want to SWF. SoloQ is a killer stomping ground.
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You know, sometimes I can't tell if it's 2016 or 2023.
We always circle back to remove SWF
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I believe one of the arguments for Nurse being "fine" is because of "sweaty" premades. So maybe play Nurse? Although you won't really have an excuse for losing anymore.
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So let's ask the obvious question of what CAN they do that won't cause a storm?
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What exactly would you propose they do, though?
They can't just disable the ability to play with your friends outright, that'd be ridiculous. They can't put serious restrictions on people for playing with their friends either, for the same reason.
Genuinely, what do you expect them to do beyond just monitoring what strong players (SWF included) are making use of and adjusting it accordingly?
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They can show if players are in a party in the pre-game lobby but that will make a lot of killers dodge.
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So, they can't do that either.
That's another example of something that isn't a solution.
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Did I say remove SWF?
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My proposal would be: people in a premade are not allowed to share perks or items. So only one people can bring Adrenaline, another can bring a medkit. So not 4x adrenaline or 4x a medkit for example. This would them less overpowered.
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You can't nerf SWFs. You can't punish people for playing with their friends. SWFs are what keeping online games alive. So this is not gonna happen.
BHVR is already nerfing maps and perks only because SWF exists.
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I don’t blame people. I play only solo myself. But these hyperefficient, meta SWFs are a curse for the game and do the opposite and stomp any non S-tier killer
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The reason they can't (or shouldn't) do something like that is that it's a nuclear option that'd affect many more players than the types you're trying to mitigate.
Not everyone in a SWF is even trying all that hard. The game has a thriving casual playerbase that just like to hop on with their friends and play a few matches. Start placing serious barriers they have to navigate before they can even queue, and a lot of them would just drop the game because it wouldn't be worth the hassle.
So that's the downside, right? Let's look at the upside: Some specific perks get marginally less strong, and the overall strengths of SWF remain exactly the same. Coordinating bringing multiples of any one thing really doesn't register as a benefit, and, you'd still have four Adrenalines proc at once in games against solo queue so you haven't even gained the removal of that particular annoyance.
It's not hard to see why this is a broad sweeping change meant paradoxically for very specific problems, too. Do we really care if a stacked SWF all bring four Quick & Quiets? Four Red Herrings? Four Corrective Actions? It's only even appearing like a problem because of the strongest options, and even then, barring specifically premades from using more than one doesn't even fix that entirely.
SWF really aren't the scary boogeyman they're often positioned as, but they are stronger than solo queue, by a noticeable margin. The reason for this is that they have better information gain without the need for perks, and they can trust their teammates to play... predictably, if not completely optimally. Neither of those strengths are affected by this proposed change, so it really doesn't achieve much beyond harming the game's health overall.
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95% of SWF groups are people just hanging out playing DBD. It's extremely rare to going against an actual team of survivors who are doing everything they can to win. A large number of the sweaty games you have are also likely against solo queue gamers since they tend to actually try harder.
It's not a competitive game. There is nothing to track how well or poorly you're doing. Removing the ability to play with friends would kill the game.
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Exactly. I don't know what some killers don't understand about this.
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1) You cannot nerf people for playing with friends. Terrible idea.
2) SWF does NOT equate to super sweaty god tier team of survivors. MAJORITY of SWF’s are no better than a solo q team. I’d argue many times they DIE more due to being over-altruistic.
3) I promise you, not every team of survivors that stomp you are SWF. Solo teams can be super effective. I have stomped killers with a team of 4 solo survivors and the killer refused to believe we weren’t SWF… copium.
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god forbids having fun with friends
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Thank you for actually reading the content of my post as per most of the others per above. You have valid points. What would you suggest?
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Just grin and bear it....
If they did anything to SWF's it would ruin the game
Just like if Survivors were buffed to solo a Killer
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It's worth mentioning that I don't think SWF rate as a genuine balance problem regarding them being too strong, but rather, I think the problem is that there are two distinct groups of players that make balancing the survivor role very difficult and thus, make nerfs to certain things less impactful.
So, you'd be looking at a twofold tactic of lessening the gap between SWF and solo queue, then lessening the strength of survivor tools in general. Perks, items, even the maps the trials take place in, those are things that - with less of a gap between the two groups of survivors - can make coordinated teams less unbearable to go against.
Everything else, I would urge my fellow killer players to adjust their strategy. Teams that are overly altruistic, for example, are generally easy to punish the second they slip up, because you've got a lot of them occupied. Teams that are stealthy are good proof for why a balanced build that includes info as well as anything else is better than putting all your eggs in one basket. Teams that genrush... well, if they're actually bringing those tools they're very difficult to deal with, that's where you'd be looking at actually nerfing things.
On top of all that, keep doing what BHVR is already doing. Nerf problematic perks where necessary, and keep the balance in check as much as possible elsewhere.
The bottom line is: We can't assume that players being efficient is an outlier to be corrected. People are gonna play at least mostly efficient, so what we need to do is just make sure they don't have tools that make doing so too easy.
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Considering SWF have generally caused some lukewarm perks to be considered toxic (HeadOn/FTP/BuckleUp/BoilOver) and had Flashlight saves from lockers removed, it would be disingenuous to say they haven't had some negative impact on the game.
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Its a lot of negative impact, they cripple design.
But, the game is old and the company needs to keep paying its people. Radical change at this stage would be a terrible idea.
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So then we should also say that Killers have had a negative impact on the game with their various exploits and abuse.
That's just gaming, unfortunately. People are always gonna be dicks, that's just the way it goes.
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What? Bro have u seen the Macmillan reworks they turned that realm into survivor heaven they literally removed all of the unsafe pallets now you got the jungle gym and safe pallets left there are not 50/50 anymore just run around a pallet three times and then predrop rinse and repeat.
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Are you kidding me? Literally all my games are sweat fests, Idk about your mmr but there is always BNPs and instalheals in my lobbys I even got Chinese sweat squad that we're VPN-ing on EU server. There is nothing casual about this game anymore everyone is tryharding like their actual life depends on it.
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You are right but some games are unwinnable when you get a 4 man that is running every meta perk possible and you just end up hitting endurance every time you swing no matter what you do play fair tunnel slug camp you just can't win.
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I can't reminder the last time a Killer Exploit caused major harm to the game.
By the way, remember when Flashlights were disabled for no particular reasons a few months ago?
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Pretty sure I remember Pinhead crashing the game.
I remember Nemesis blowing up consoles and causing massive lag.
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That is a way to balance the game for Survivors as one entity vs Killer instead of Solo Queue and Swf vs Killer.
However people don’t like that too.
People want things to be better but they also don’t want the status quo to change.
So the alternative is lobby dodging.
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If survivor is running around pallet 3 times, then you are probably not playing so effective.
MacMillan maps are just fine.
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I just wish we would be consistent on the solo q versus SWF thing. Because usually this happens...
1) Survivors complain that BHVR needs to bridge the gap between solo q and SWF, because solo q is miserable.
2) Survivors tell us that SWFs don't need to be nerfed, because there isn't a big difference between most solo q and most SWFs.
Can we please pick 1 or 2.... but not pick both at the same time???????
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MFT is a thing in case you are not up to date with the patch notes.
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They aren't contradictory in their respective contexts, and you're attributing them both to "survivors" when that's not really how this works.
SWFs don't need to be nerfed, but more importantly, they shouldn't be nerfed. There are a number of reasons for this, I've already touched on a few in this thread.
At the same time, the specific differences between SWF and solo queue can make the latter role kinda miserable at times. That doesn't necessarily mean they're substantially, ridiculously weaker in a strict balance sense, but it does mean that their quality of life is a lot lower. You're stuck running specific perks you might not want to just to have basic info, you're rolling the dice on whether your teammates even care about playing altruistically, and you can't coordinate important tactics on the fly. Some of this can't be fixed, but some of it can.
There's also the other reason to shrink the gap between solo queue and SWF, which is that the closer those two groups are to one another, the more "survivor" can be a coherent role that can actually be balanced. Right now, and especially in the game's past, there was not one group that BHVR had to balance, there are and were three. Killer, solo queue, and SWF. Changes affect those latter two differently.
It only seems like a contradiction because you're conflating a few arguments, too. People point out the sheer number of casual and unskilled SWF specifically when other users start talking about SWF as this unstoppable juggernaut of imbalance wreaking havoc on the health of the game, which isn't true. People then talk about shrinking the gap between the two for the previous two reasons mentioned, while commenting on the strength difference that does exist.
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These are non Jungle Gym loops on Coal Tower all of them safe loops there are no 50/50 or unsafe loops.
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Killers complaining about swf's that make the game too hard for them... and then proceed to go stomp solo q players and pretty much force them to play in swf's only. Lol
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I was going to say something similar. Any time you see a "skill issue" response like this, it's usually a troll who only plays one side and never responds back after being challenged to show how awesome they are at the game.
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If they nerfed premades then they'd end up nerfing killers. Because premades are helping keep killrates at the percentage the devs are happy with. Last time they released killer and escape rates, escape rates were 40%. They also said that playing in a swf increases your chances of survival. So those with higher escape rates are probably more likely to be swfs, while the lower end are more likely to be solo. Solo are the kill rate fodder, while swfing can actually help you escape. If they nerf swfs then escape rates will probably drop and killers will get an overhaul.
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It's not SWFs don't need to be nerfed. It's SWFs can't be nerfed. You can't punish people for playing with friends. There is no way to nerf SWFs without nerfing Solo-q. Changes will be added for all survivors, not only one side.
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These "hyper efficient" SWFs are something you at most like 5% of the time, and thats generous
I went against one earlier today, but other than that I cant remember the last time I went against one
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I don't think anyone is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to play with friends. They are saying that coordinating on comms provides a massive advantage, which is 100% true, and changes should be made to reduce that advantage.
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Those who are saying things like "SWF aren't any better than solo q" and "95% of SWF teams are just casual players messing around not trying hard to win" are just being disingenuous. Anyone who plays killer know these aren't true.
Nobody is arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to play with friends. They are rightfully stating that SWF on comms is a MASSIVE advantage and asking the devs to adjust the game balance to nerf this massive advantage. There are plenty of ways it could be done. Lots of suggestions posted in comments above if you bother to read them.
I play both killer and solo queue and I know how miserable solo q can be. I totally understand why people want to play with friends. It's a lot more fun than solo q! But please don't pretend like it's not an unfair advantage because it absolutely is.
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I read all comments and yet i did not see any healthy suggestion. All of suggestions i saw would make people stop play this game. If you have suggestions to nerf SWFs without making people leave game or hurt solo with them, lets hear it.
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And when do we get to the part where it's miserable for many killers to go against SWFs that are making voice comm callouts? Survivors get buffs to make solo q less miserable, but killers never anything to make it less miserable to face SWFs that are using voice comms for competitive advantage.
And that's the problem with this double standard. It gets to be used as an excuse to give quality of life updates for survivor.... but killers still haven't gotten their first announced quality of life update, because it's so much less important than all the survivor updates are.
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Even if said swf are your casual teams, anyone with a bit of game knowledge can call out things like Spirit Fury, Coup, Bamboozle. Thus instead of catching each survivor “off guard” with those perks to get a hit, the Killer only catches one person with Spirit Fury and the rest of the players pre drop for the rest of the game. As much as some people like to parrot the liner about most swf being casual, that doesn’t mean said swf are players with limited game knowledge.
Small things like this also play a part in influencing the outcome of a match.
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I think this goes to one of the issues with "nerfing" SWFs. Even if the above was done, I doubt it would even impact SWFs that much. Some of the best teams already put restrictions on themselves and it does very little to balance things if they play public matches.
Which brings up a problem with nerfing SWFs. If BHVR implemented something and it didn't really weaken them, it would just upset everyone. Killers would be upset that they were still outmatched, and SWFs would be upset they had to play under a new set of rules.
I think its probably impossible to solve, especially now. Maybe if when the game was designed it came with the idea of 'if you play with friends, X becomes true' people would have accepted it, but you can't have that now.
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Its the same to my thinking, if they bring every killers in D-C tier up to A tier. Where high A tier is the average strenght, thats mean survivors' average strength should be matched around high A tier killers. Not B tier.
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