Have you lost hope in dbd and their balance philosophy?
I don't understand your reasoning behind the Batteries Included nerf? For a perk like MFT to consistently go on for months and the combination with Hope as an end game perk trivializes their means of balancing their game. For killers to ultimately have to be in range of a COMPLETED generator to activate this perk and now you add another side effect that will make this perk never see the light of day is by disabling this perk in end game. You did this with Hex: Ruin. You did this with Corrupt Intervention. Survivors never have to be in range of a generator. All they need to do is to be injured for MFT to activate its inherited haste effect and Hope activates it permanently without any side effects whatsoever other than Survivors having to do their objectives, which gives survivors a total of 110% movement speed when they use both MFT + Hope.
"especially when paired with other Perks such as Hex: No One Escapes Death."
So it's okay for survivors to use both Hope and MFT? Gotcha.
How is this logical?
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You seem to forget that MfT is getting a massive nerf. It will only activates when in deep wound which is difficult to achieve during endgame, sometimes even impossible unless you play around with perks. MfT isn't even going to be run that often.
Batteries Included and NOED provided killers with exposed and stackable haste which can very obviously turn the tide of the entire game.
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Can't lose hope if you never had any!
Blight has been untouched for years and everyone agrees that at least the addons need to be gutted, yet nothing happens and all the experienced Blight mains are competing to see how many thousands of wins they can get in a row.
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Yes, but don't you get my point? They nerfed this perk PRE-Launch. They took 6 MONTHS to nerf MFT. Get it? And the kicker is, no-one asked for Batteries Included nerf. Why? Behaviour will never respond to that.
Same goes for not nerfing kick gen meta for months on end. This is why I lost all hope in this games balance.
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What are you mad about exactly? They stopped a problematic perk before it ever released. Shouldn't this be a good thing? Like who wants to see 123% killers in the end game?
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You think this perk is problematic? Lol.
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The devs only care about survivors. I’m almost glad they nerfed chucky and his perk since it is saving me money.
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It's not just that... it's more like overall balance...
Though knowing that there's no such thing as perfect balance
But giving what we have to deal with:
Tunneling- Both Killers and Survivors do this to progress the game
Maps- There's a lot to go on with this but... yea
Pips- They still have a couple of things that aren't working out
Grades- Same as Pips
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It's true that balancing is chaotic. There's no denying it. But you can't just say they favor survivors when they also had to face that gen regression era or the eruption spamming which didn't get changed for a while. The balancing is tragic for both sides but this situation might show that BHVR are starting to understand how to balance properly and efficiently. Just because they began with a killer's perk, it doesn't mean it's unfair. Maybe they finally are prioritizing balance now, although that would be hard to imagine. I don't know though. Perk would've got nerfed anyway after a couple of days due to the NOED synergy.
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I'm going to go through this without any bias on either side
Killers did have the gen kick meta for months and SM's extremely problematic 3 gen scenario for nearly as long, while survivors have had dead hard for very long, MFT for months, and still have the buckle up+for the people meta, so I won't say anything about 'that side had this for this long' arguments.
However, if we compare MFT to Batteries Included, Batteries only worked near completed gens with a limited time away from them compared to no time limit as long as you're injured with MFT. I do think they should have tackled haste stacking, but MFT in it's pre-change state would still be an issue with M1 killers because of how maps are laid out and how loops are placed in general, something survivors already have more power to use than killers, and did nothing for dead zones. That aside, Batteries would have been potentially oppressive with NOED at endgame, which is understandable, but it's already a niche perk outside that combo that doesn't really benefit too well since you're already away from current objectives for a haste bonus. Deactivating at endgame is silly, but I understand why it should because of NOED, and unless they nerf the haste bonus on NOED they'd need to tone down Batteries. Honestly I'd rather them be extra careful about haste bonuses than let it run rampant like MFT has been.
I do think out of all killers though, Wraith will benefit massively from it. Why? Wraith can already move fast when cloaked. Imagine if survivors slam a few center gens, you now have an extra 5% between targets while cloaked. Sure you'd need to fit it into a build, but I'd wager with a pallet shred build you could replace something like Spirit Fury and get the movement benefits.
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They literally nerfed and buffed him, are you seriously going to go there?
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I dont understand why people use the term 'nerf' when it comes to PTB stuff. That stuff was never live. The point of PTB is to test stuff and for the devs to determine how best to implement said stuff. It was too strong in endgame and now it deactivates. This perk is still incredibly good, maps have increasingly been getting smaller with less pallets and more deadzones. And chases often happen around completed gens, more than people realize. That perk will give plenty of value before endgame even rolls around.
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It’s an overall nerfed. Not to mention trickster, who was also nerfed.
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They literally only increased his main event requirement to 8 blades. He now moves at 115% has no recoil and gets main event with only 8 instead of 30!!!
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It wasn’t even that much of a nerf. All it does is remove the brain dead gameplay and incentivize the skill portion of him. Chucky will be a fantastic killer on live.
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There is a different. Devs didnt know the stack from MFT and Hope made it a huge issue. They learned it but they cant constantly change a perk, but rather watching how it perform before deciding.
After 6 months learning, they think BI is not fine when paired with Noed giving 9% Haste and Expose.
Balancing is to make sure the gameplay is balanced on both side, not balance the time suffering to the players.
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It was a strong antiloop. Killers should have strong tools, especially since survivors have incredibly safe loops.
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You do have strong tools in Chucky, they just require a learning curve which isn’t a bad thing lol.
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And MFT is getting heavily nerfed. It was not a healthy addition to the game, just like Batteries+NOED wouldn't be healthy. Just because they made a previous mistake with MFT doesn't mean they're required to make an equivalent mistake for the other side. I think people are trivializing how easy it would be to essentially have perma-haste after the gens are completed with Batteries. The effect lingers for 5 seconds at tier 3. And it would take some awfully precise (and not at all realistic) planning for a survivor to not run within 12 meters of any of the 7 generators.
We don't have to have an equivalent thing for everything. Yes, MFT stayed around for too long, just like Eruption did (people tend to forget that one, weirdly enough). There's no requirement for BHVR to make the same mistake for each side. That would be dumb.
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I would argue the reason Batteries Included is getting nerfed is because of MFT. At end game ALL gens get powered, thats a lot of locations the speed boost procs.
So when combined with NOED its basically the Killer equivalent of Hope+MFT... so no, I see the change as reasonable to get ahead of a potential big problem.
I'd rather it be released underpowered than be busted day one and then get gutted after its ran amok for 2 months.
If it is disabled at end game though, I would say that it's power should translate to progressed gens than are not regressing too.
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Honestly, I think the biggest failure on BHVR's part is their 'we don't go back on mistakes' policy.
6.1 had some seriously terrible changes in it that still haven't been undone. Ruin and DS getting cut in half were both just plain awful for the game.
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Maybe they went ahead and nerfed Batteries Included BECAUSE MFT is getting nerfed. They knew survivor mains would scream about it. "We get MFT nerfed and they get Batteries Included?" and you take into account that they already knew BI and NOED would probably be busted. So that's probably why it got a nerf so quickly. I personally don't want the BI nerf. I play both sides and I would have been willing to ride it out to see how busted it was in my survivor games (and would have obviously tried it with killer LOL).
End of the day they need to figure out the issue of stacking haste effects. Maybe they should never stack, or maybe a perk where they don't want another haste effect to stack with that perk should just be coded not to, while other haste effect stacking is ok.
Like not having any haste stacks with NOED or Hope. But if you have MFT and you get tunneled off the hook, the MFT haste (since you had endourance off hook) and the basekit BT or (regular BT if the unhooker has it) can stack. Maybe anything outside of stacking haste with NOED or HOPE since those are the big two I think.
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mft lasted months. this didnt even get released before being nerfed
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I love how some people say Buckle up + Ftp meta, brother in 50 matches, I can say I saw that combo twice as a killer. Just because you got that at one or two matches doesnt mean its a META. god. You need to waste TWO slots in order for this to work, but not only that BUT ALSO being following your teammate which means at least two people not doing gens, its a lot of inneficiency. And being totally unbias on any side, we killer have the combo pain res + pop META which destroys literally more than 50%(~) of the gen progress, so instead of doing 5 gens, survis most of the time needs to do at least 7 gens in overall.
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Doesn't this mean they've learned from their mistake? Rather than let Batteries Included remain problematic for months they solved its issues almost immediately.
I would much rather something be changed fast than leave it for months just because the opposite side got to have something broken for longer.
I do think they should've just prevented Haste Stacking instead of nerfing Batteries but I see this as a good thing that BHVR is actually noticing something could be an issue and not letting it play out like they did for MfT or Eruption.
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Eruption also lasted months. And perks like Reassurance and Scavenger also got nerfed before being released.
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So, out of spite, you believe the perk should've stayed the same and harmed the health of the game just to get nerfed eventually any way?
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Your mind is clouded by whataboutism, bHVR's decision could still be reasonable. a Killer being overpowered shows up easier in stats than a single survivor would when it comes to ratings.
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I have never understood this argument.
If you believe that MFT being in the state it was for months is a problem, then the only logical thing you should want out of Batteries Included is for BHVR to avoid making that mistake twice. It is an incoherent position to say that one example of a problem should be allowed to stay in the game only because some other example of that same problem was, at a previous point in history, in the game for too long.
If you think MFT + Hope is a bad combo for the game's health, you must necessarily think that Batteries Included + NOED is a bad combo for the game's health, if your position is going to be coherent. I don't see any way you could possibly draw attention to the first combo being bad as a way of saying the second combo isn't bad, other than making some vague allusion to "killers vs survivors" or a backwards demand about "fair" treatment.
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A lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time ago.....
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BHVR is learning from past mistakes and trying not to create another MFT scenario.
If anything it's given me more faith in their balancing philosophy.
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This though.
Ruin's power and DS's duration should absolutely be reverted, but Batteries Included is not an example of a poor balancing decision.
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Nurse exists. No reason to put a bunch of effort into a killer that is still inferior in every way.
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Whats with endgame Legion. BFF + noed works just fine. Is that too strong as well?
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This is sadly the case.
If your only goal is to win consistently in public matches, then nurse is the way to go.
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Never faced it to be honest. Can't really say.
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The idea that too much speed stacking without cost is not great on either side, I think, is pretty well accepted and acknowledged by BHVR.
That's why perks that do it are being changed.
I don't think it speaks to some flawed "balance philosophy" no matter how much "what-about-ism" people want to pile onto the topic.
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Sadly you are right, but that’s also the sole reason Nurse should be removed from the game.
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I have, they be zooming.
There are so many possibilities to get hast right now. The biggest offender being Skull merchant. This perk got nerfed because of a design problem. Maybe the better idea would have been to just block the other gens in end game rather than having them be "completed".
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I used to play several times a day. After MFT was added, I felt like the devs have completely lost the entire concept of game balance. Playing as an M1 killer main absolutely turned into an awful playing experience. I pretty much stepped away from DBD limiting myself to maybe 2 or 3 rounds a week (from at least 5 matches a day). I'll be returning once the nerf goes into play, but I'm very much putting DBD on thin ice at this point moving forward. They absolutely wrecked the game for half a year...and that was after LOADS of feedback on the forum on the MFT PTB warned how broken it was.....and it went live without a single change.
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I keep seeing people saying "why should batteries included get nerfed before it even released when MFT went on for months without a nerf in the live game!"
And to that I say, does that really discredit the need for the perk to be nerfed? Granted I don't know anything about batteries included or have an opinion on if it should've been nerfed or not, but that MFT comparison doesn't make sense cause...
Does that mean any perk should just go on to the live game for months while being too powerful? Maybe they've improved from that situation and from here on out we won't see overpowered perks reach the live game without a nerf, yet I keep seeing people on twitter using MFT as a reason to not nerf it, but no other valid reason. Just doesn't make sense to me
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People want fun. Fun is subjective, but trust me, the majority doesn't care about a 'learning curve'.
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With one breath, BHVR can make the best, most ingenious balance change, and also the most unfathomably bewildering balance change. This is nothing new. So there's no faith to lose.
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First, BHVR never had a balance philisophy to begin with. Second, think about logic for yourself at least. Survviros getting rewarded for doing their objective by just playing with two pekrs and sacrifing the rest for a mere 2 or 3 minutes. Killers meanwhile can use that perks during the game by just playing the game (gens get done by default gameplay) and getting a massive reward at the point they mostlikely failed to do their objective without any downside. Double standards from killers as always.
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BHVR and Balance? 😂
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So many here claiming that the post Ptb nerf is justified, while for me it's an unnecessary nerf to an already bad /situational perk. Also the combo with noed is only dangerous on weaker killers, nurse and blight do not benefit from / need it at all.
I did not play Ptb, did someone experience that combo at the Ptb and found it being problematic? or are we all just assuming?
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When a killer gets benefit from Batteries included during the game, before all gens get done, they are prob. performing badly. No sane killer should chase survivors around finished gens, except when the gen was finished in their face. The perk works best at an end game perk, imo. But that was cut off completely with this post-ptb nerf.
Also, what's that nonsense about failing the objective? The killers objective is to kill the survivors, not to protect gens. Sure it helps in killing when you can delay the gens, but it's not required. That's where endgame builds come into play. Noed+BI would have been a strong endgame combo, but it will never the light in live.
Thats sad imo, bc a strong endgame combo like this might have the power to reduce the prevalence of full regression builds in favor for endgame builds. Imo endgame builds are more fun and intense for both parties, compared to lame-ass full gen-regression. Isn't that something we should be aiming more?
But no, too many survivors demand to get their escape once all gens done. That there's still the end game phase to be played out and to potentially die, that's uncalled for, right?
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When we see them announce balance changes where they modify some effect duration from 0.4 to 0.5 seconds, it becomes painfully obvious that their balance team is staring at spreadsheets and completely missing the forest for the trees. I have no confidence in their balance team whatsoever.
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Yes... BHVR never had a proper balance philosophy.
Second if we go by your logic, half of survivor perks would require a substantial nerf.
Why should survivors be rewarded with resi,MFT, well make it, Unbreakable, etc etc when they blatantly"failed at their objective" and got hit/downed/hooked?
There's a clear balance dissonance when a killer perk for 4% haste is an hex perk (BHVR definition, hexs are extremely strong perks).
Yet hope for 7% is just free,permanent and has no counterplay.
Thirdly, the killers objective is to kill, until the survivors are out of the trial the killer didn't "fail at his objectives".
All in all, the power role is killer, it makes sense for killer to have perks 3-4x stronger than a similar survivor perk.
If you want to know if a certain survivor perk is balanced, just 3-4x the effects and for certain perks apply the mirror effect (Endurance > exposed, for example).
And let me tell you, you wouldn't enjoy going against a killer version of hope. (21-28% haste perm).
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I detect a massive amount of bias and lack of gamesense. Nothing more to discuss here if youre thinking like this.
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Wheres the bias and lack of game sense?
Did the survivor achieve any objectives by getting hit/going down/dying? Nope. (Again by your original post logic, half of the survivors perks shouldn't exist).
Is 7% bigger than 4%? Yup.
Is the 4% the value that is tied to a hex that can be removed by the other side? Yup.
Is the killers objective to kill? Yup.
Is the 1 in a 1 v 4 assymetrical game supposed to be as powerful as the 4 combined (in dbd case, the killer)? Yup.
Seems to me like my "gamesense" is pretty spot on.
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