They have to do something about Buckle Up + For the People combo, and Background Player

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These perks are extremely unhealthy for Dead by Daylight balance. Background Player should be reverted to its previous version. I can't remember how many times I saved my teammates with this perk, and the killers were patrolling before they pick up the downed survivor but the killers can't do anything about it because this perk makes me 1. Extremely fast. 2. Gives me enough time to go from a extremely long distance and to flashlight save the survivor.

Buckle Up + For the People. Buckle Up or For the People need a change. This is such a nasty perk combo that has saved me and fellow survivors too many times. I find this almost as bad as cheating.

Comments

  • JudithMorel
    JudithMorel Member Posts: 562
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    background player is fine as is......

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 1,203
    edited November 2023
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    Any time love

    (To be serious for a second, I don't agree that my semi-serious, semi-joking post about why I object to certain ways of framing basic gameplay mechanics is derailing your thread; I feel I was making a relevant point)

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,098
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    Batteries is probably getting nerfed quickly because MFT proved to be so problematic. No reason to make the same mistake twice.

  • dknb
    dknb Member Posts: 142
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  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,358
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    Background Player seems fine. It received a change because no one ran it. No one ran it because it sucked. The devs were trying to make another exhaustion perk viable so that survivors had something other than SB or Lithe—the only exhaustion perks that are consistently decent—to run. Believe it or not but survivor perks shouldn’t actually have a laundry list of activation requirements or drawbacks to partially function every 12 matches.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,451
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    i don't even want to talk about that ftp buckle up bs anymore.

    i respect bgp + flashlight/bang saves and they don't feel unfair whatsoever, but pallet saves with it are super cheap and uncounterable. idk how the perk can be changed with this in mind but i wouldn't question if it got reverted back to 150% speed.

  • MrDardon
    MrDardon Member Posts: 3,881
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    Leave Background Player alone, it's my new favourite Exhaustion Perk. The amount of distance you cover with it is insane, combine it with Plot Twist and you are basically faster than Blight, Plot Twist's 50 % Haste multiplies on top of the 200 % of Background Player, which basically makes you move at 300 % speed for 4 seconds.

    For the People/Buckle up are fine on their own, they just need their synergy removed.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,419
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    To be fair it just sounds like a killer version of hope that only works near generators. If hopes fine. I don't see how batteries would be horrible. Its just a end game bonus without a instadown unlike noed.

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933
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    My viewpoint on this is that killer in endgame is already at its strongest potential: most if not all resources on the map are gone, usually at least one team member is or should be dead, some killers already might have an instadown and if not they might be pairing it with noed. I wouldn't mind the perk, if noed already didn't have that stupid speed boost

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
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    Have you try to injure the FTP + BU survivors? It works well for me, should be for you too.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,451
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    you will (or can) reach end game in 100% of your killer matches, and the ones you don't reach it you already won meanwhile survivors' end game perks have a chance of being a wasted perk slot.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
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    If killers dont reach to end game (Gates powered) means they won.

    If killers reach to end game (Gates powered), end game perks are mean to make a big comeback. I have power trip using Bloodwarden, Remember, Rancor, Terminus and turn many 2-3 hooks matches into 3 kills.


    If survivors reach to end game, they're already winning and have high chance to escape, their end game perks do not matter, unless they're just down and the last Gen done to active Adrenaline while killers on weapon cooldown, which is very rare case.

    If survivors not reach to end game, they dont have a chance to use the perk.

    If survivors who reaches to end game but their teammates do not, they should've use other perks so their teammates a chance to reach to end game and escape.


    The nerf on BI is bad though.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,645
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  • WilliamSN
    WilliamSN Member Posts: 524
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  • PotatoPotahto
    PotatoPotahto Member Posts: 250
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    Background player - whatever, but FTP+Buckle Up BS has no right to exist, I legit would've preferred it to be nerfed over MFT

  • Alphamav
    Alphamav Member Posts: 44
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    Interesting that you phrase the post from a survivor's perspective. From my perspective while playing Killer, I see BU+FTP combo fairly often (I run my preferred backpack build on all - Agitation, Awakened Awareness, Iron Grasp, Mad Grit). On another note, it is less likely successfully use the BU+FTP combo with a killer running STBFL, so there is at least one counter-perk (Lightborn being another to allow more insta-picking). I typically insta-pick (encourages over-altruism for the backpack strat), but if not, then I try to hit both survivors and chase down the one that runs towards the gens / decent deadzone area. I could see them nerfing the combo slightly, but they could mix it up / balance it by adding one DH at the 0 hookstate, that would give some old FTP+DH combo usability back while still reducing the number of chances to get the combo off.

  • Rickprado
    Rickprado Member Posts: 506
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    To me the problem isn't Background player alone but Background player when combined with the recent flashlight changes - the bigger time window to blind the killer. The perk would feel less frustrating to face if flashing the killer had a smaller time window, a more precise one. With the current blinding timing, a survivor can run from the middle of the map and reach the killer right before the time window for blinding is ending.

    Lets give some more time to see how this perk is doing and then i hope the devs make some kind of change.


    About FTP + Buckle Up: many things have been said about it, just hope the devs change this combo soon

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,645
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    But that's not what it is anymore, is it?

    As far as I know, the bnp "only" removes 10 seconds form a Gen permanently.

    So why call it insta Gen?

    If I got it wrong, I'm sorry.

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 1,203
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    William was saying that back when BNPs like that existed they were clearly broken and it was not an "outplay" to use them but an abuse of OP mechanics

  • SimpleSage
    SimpleSage Member Posts: 92
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    I just had a match yesterday where I got ROCKED by a FTP+BU 4-man SWF. All 4 had FTP+BU and OTR, 3 had Distortion and one had Shadow Step. Despite playing quite well, getting 12 downs total, they still managed a 4-man out after only 3 of those downs resulted in hooks. I got hit with a total of 7 FTP+BU saves and 2 really questionable flashlight saves. ( 1 save was done by a survivor standing on a hill, my face was buried in the side and they had to essentially stand on my head to get the save. The other was done through shack window which wasn't in my FOV as I was face planted into the locker in the corner.)

    As for how to fix it:

    You can either give FTP a tough activation requirement or usage limitation so it can still be a powerful anti-tunnel combo but makes it significantly harder to weaponize the combination.

    Or remove the compatibility entirely. Buckle up on its own still has its place in altruism and anti-slug builds. And For the People can be reworked a little to add a 10s endurance to ONLY the person getting picked up to make it a viable anti-tunnel perk, this essentially becomes a perk to incentivize the killer to chase you instead. However if this is done, care should be taken it won't work with MFT or we just replace the problem with the exact same problem. If necessary this version could also receive an activation condition, however making yourself an easy down in the face of the killer on top of being broken for 60s is already a pretty steep price especially if you get hooked as a result.

  • BlackRabies
    BlackRabies Member Posts: 878
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    Only nerf I can see happening with FtP and BU is having the endurance on BU be greatly reduced to just 3-5 seconds down from 10 OR the better change imo is have endurance be applied only to the survivor that's been picked up off from the ground and not the survivor that used the combo. So can still be used to save a down team mate while getting yourself downed and hooked instead.

  • TeleportingTurkey
    TeleportingTurkey Member Posts: 589
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    yeah, that stuff is unhealthy.

    bhvr are notorious for overbuffing perks with low usage to the point they become a huge issue.

    boil over rework was one of the worst things that happened to modern dbd

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,224
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    didn't I make a thread on this topic already?

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 899
    edited December 2023
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    Background Player is perfectly fine and in fact just about as good as it needs to be in order for it to be worthwhile in solo queue scenarios. Trying to go for flashlight/flashbang/pallet/sabo saves is a huge time investment that often comes with no payoff. Hell, with randoms even if you do end up rescuing them they might just die a mere 10 seconds later again. The perk is however problematic if you have multiple people on voice comms coordinating its use, where they intentionally die under a pallet every time and you can't pick up nor chase rescuers away because they can get back to you in time from a large distance. This as @edgarpoop has also alluded to is an issue the game balancing suffers from because BHVR at times doesn't account for the possibility of 4 people all using certain perks (and items/add-ons/offerings) in a coordinated way.

    The solution to this issue is simple and something that would benefit the game overall: Restrict SWF loadouts such that any perk (and item/add-on/offering) can only be present at most 1 time between the members of the SWF group. BHVR had already implemented this idea for the Community Cups, they are aware that it would leave the game in a much more healthy place (while also encouraging a larger perk diversity, diversifying gameplay in turn, as well as freeing up perk design space due to not having to account for the scenarios of multiple people abusing a perk in coordinated ways).

    Oh, and for something somewhat related: Enduring should also work on pallet saves, halving the 5-second stun.

    For The People + Buckle Up was bound to be the next thing people jump to to complain about. It is not nearly as problematic as people think it is. The usual situation is this: You have an injured survivor you are chasing, you down them, a healthy survivor that has been following closely comes in and picks them up with FTP. You throw your hands up and get frustrated because there is nothing you can do against this, and now they have 10 seconds of Endurance that you have to wait out. ...But what if instead of using 2 perk slots to make this play, the healthy survivor would have simply taken a hit for the injured survivor? The end result would be the same: instead of having the injured survivor down, you have another survivor injured. It would be even worse actually, because that survivor gets a hit sprint and you go through hit cooldown, whereas with FTP both the survivors are still right there. The survivor using FTP would also be broken. And if they can't find a window to vault or pallet to drop in those 10 seconds of Endurance, they just get downed again (if they vault a pallet (or medium-vault a window), they get grabbed). And while there are some means of trying to play around people tanking hits, you may well end up wasting a lot more time trying to do so only to eventually have to hit the healthy survivor anyway.

    Of course, there are instadown abilities/add-ons/perks, against which the FTP + Buckle Up combo can be more impactful, but in those cases the survivors also risk more. I do think that the combo is complete BS in the endgame however. A solution could be to make Buckle Up not work in the endgame. Although I would also not be opposed to BHVR simply removing the synergy between these two perks just like they did for FTP and MFT, keeping the perks themselves as they are.

    In either case, one should definitely be using STBFL on M1 killers. It solves so many issues for them it's an essential pick of almost integral importance. Helps against people tanking hits, which can otherwise be debilitating for M1s; bestows a snowball potential M1s otherwise direly lack; makes the killer scarier around hooks, which M1s otherwise aren't; helps in chase, an area M1s can need any help they can get; is especially nice in the endgame, where otherwise an M1 hit could allow a survivor to make it to the gate from almost anywhere; and of course, it can combat the FTP + BU combo, because it is very difficult for the FTP player to pick up the downed survivor before getting hit, due to the short hit cooldown - they basically have to already be right on top of them the moment they go down, meaning they have to have gotten much closer beforehand, putting themselves at risk of getting hit.

    Post edited by zarr on
  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,424
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    BNP isn't broken any more.

    He's also going back about 7 years to find that version of the item since patch 1.0 was around June 2016 and the patch that nerfed instant BNP (1.5.3) released in July 2017.

    In those same patches, Moris in 1.0 used to let you kill a survivor without having to hook anyone, and 1.5.3 forced killers to hook survivors first.

    It's some pretty extreme cherry picking, since game balance was wild across the board when the DbD first released.

  • ironligma
    ironligma Member Posts: 119
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    From killer experience I'd say yes, however with the sheer amount of chucky I see I don't care if it's spammed against him.