I can’t thank you guys enough for the decisive buff
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Where in my statement did i say that i tunnel? I´m the guy laying on the floor and dwindling my thumps.
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Happens already :d
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The problem with buffing DS back again is that the perk can be easily weaponized against a non-tunneling killer. I hope they change Off The Record and Borrrow Time to make survivors lose collision with killers, and remove DS from triggering from lockers.
Now, even with the 3 seconds DS i'm facing survivors that will bodyblock after hook, waste their OTR then use DS after being picked up. Its not me wanting to tunnel: its a survivor using strong perk to draw aggro from the killer, putting the killer in a lose-lose situation.
I understand that there is a tunneling problem in the current state of the game, but i wish they come with solutions that does not harm killers that are playing "nice" but are pushed out of their way by some survivors
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According to here, Conspicuous Actions (CA) was first introduced in PTB 6.1.0, the 3s nerf and deactivation due to CA is mentioned in the same page too.
The DBD wiki here also indicates that the DS changes were all released together within the same patch. The Conspicuous Action page also indicates that the concept CA was implemented in 6.1.0.
I also looked at the previous patches, 6.0.X and there was no mention of Conspicuous Actions.
So if there was a patch that somehow got introduced between 6.1.0 PTB and 6.1.0 release patch which didn’t have the DS changes, please enlighten me on where I can find this information. Then we can talk about this period of time where DS was still 5 seconds and was deactivated by CA only.
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The term conspicuous action got introduced with 6.1.0, prior to that (patch 4.6) DS had a list of actions in its description that would tell what would disable it. "Conspicuous action" was introduced to include all of them, and opening the exit gate was added. This was so the term could be generalized for other perks too, and the endurance effect
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That's because 'Conspicuous actions' wasn't a term until 6.1, because until then, the only perk that worked with that feature was DS.
If you check the changelog for 4.6 for DS, you'll notice that it lists all conspic actions as things that disable DS.
6.1 only applied the label to these actions. DS had been deactivating with these conspic actions since 4.6.
EDIT: Also, from your earlier post:
Unless the wiki is not updated, Conspicuous actions that disable DS do not include body blocks or flashlight saves. If 5 second DS got reverted, that means a Survivor who just got unhooked could just bodyblock the unhooker, go down, get a free escape when picked up and have 5 seconds to make a getaway.
DS does nothing to protect from slugging. If they body block, don't pick them up. They'll waste their own time more than yours. If they try to go for flashlight saves, just don't pick them up and keep your focus on the person you were going for. Down the flashlighter or chase them off, then return to the person you were originally going to hook, just like you do with any flashlighter.
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Anyway, since I missed the stream, did they explicitly say what they're doing with DS? Did they explicitly used the word buff?
Otherwise for all we know they might just rework it into something completely different
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It was a joke, I know it‘s bad
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No, they did not go into any details, it is just on the Roadmap:
No information at all, but I dont think you can nerf DS even further. (Same that it is quite clear for the other Perks whether they receive Nerfs or Buffs... except for Shadowborn and Monitor of course, but those will probably get bigger Reworks because we get the FOV-Slider)
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That makes sense, thanks for clearing up the confusion! I was under the impression that other actions that disabled DS was not implemented till 6.1.0.
@Firellius Slugging which is also complained about after tunneling and camping? So a Killer who plays nice and decides to go after the unhooker would potentially have to deal with an unhooked Survivor being annoying with bodyblocks/flashlight saves, down them and resume looking for the unhooker who would have probably have made some distance by then? Plus they can’t pick up the downed Survivor for a minute at the risk of a stun that people are calling for to be buffed from 3-5 seconds?
That doesn’t sound appealing to Killers who want to play nice.
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Most people certainly would not call it a crutch. It's an anti tunnel perk, I fail to see how that is a crutch in any way or form, if anything tunneling is a crutch for killers. And yes I get that tunneling can be a necessity. But the answer to that is to not make it a necessity, not keep tunneling as an incredibly viable strategy that ruins the fun for countless survivor players.
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Slugging which is also complained about after tunneling and camping?
Yes, bleed-out and 4K slugging are. If a killer leaves you on the ground because they don't want to tunnel you, that's an entirely different story.
So a Killer who plays nice and decides to go after the unhooker would potentially have to deal with an unhooked Survivor being annoying with bodyblocks/flashlight saves, down them and resume looking for the unhooker who would have probably have made some distance by then?
They won't make that much distance, since they don't get a movespeed boost and you're only slowed for one hit. And with flashy saves, it's no different from what that situation looks like without DS. If there's a non-DS survivor nearby that's fishing for a save, you hit them or drive them out just the same, to then go back and hook the person you downed initially. DS does not obstruct you here unless you decide to pick up the recently unhooked survivor within 60 seconds of them being unhooked.
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I read so many times the 3 second nerf killed ds back then. Sry do i misunderstand the meaning of a killed perkß Ds is still a pretty often used perk and people who know how to use it can benefit from it barely anytime. Of course ds is useless if you notice you are geetting tunneled and run into a deadzone.
In my opinion ds is fine as it is, but i am interested what changes they will make.
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The unhooked surv losing collision for like 8 seconds or whatever also neatly gets rid of that particular form of bodyblocking. Could even be a certain range around the hook instead of timed, say 16 meters or so.
So now going back to 5 seconds and keeping the conspicuous action limitations would be fine. Without that collision we could even discuss it being available once the gens ar done. I wouldn't agree with that myself, but the conversation could be had then.
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No. If I see a Laurie who seems new and for some reason I have to tunnel, I leave her slugged for 60 seconds and go hunting. Problem solved.
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There is a simple solution for that. Make going for other survivors more rewarding. Kinda like BBQ before they removed the bloodpoint bonus and stop hook bombing/body blocking after getting unhooked.
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They could finally address the biggest complaint about DS, which is survivors weaponizing it. I used to have so many survivors that would aggressively try to bodyblock me, because I was chasing someone else, and they "didn't want to waste" their DS.
The list of conspicuous actions that deactivates DS, needs to be expanded to stop people from weaponizing DS.
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Just give it the five second stun back. Everything else about it is fine.
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"I wonder why survivors using this perk... I never been hit by DS as a killer..."
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It'll be exactly that because we can't have tough survivor games. MFT got NERFED so DS will be buffed AGAIN to compensate.
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If you take a protection hit decisive strike deactivates we will see how this buff works soon enough wish it was sooner rather than later the game kinda needs it atm
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Did they actually say they were BUFFING it? I saw the chart where they said they'd be looking at various things. Was the word buff ever used or are people making assumptions?
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I think people are just assuming it because nerfing it now would be like nerfing self care.
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Nah you’re good lol I can’t tell Sarcasm through messages my bad
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I mean what they gonna do nerf it to 1 second and Up on escaping the killers grasp it gives the survivor a 10% hindered status effect for 20 seconds
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For 1... self care has been jokingly called a Killer perk for AWHILE now, and they still nerfed it.
For 2, we might be seeing a complete overhaul. They could change the perk effect entirely.
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I'm talking about the current nerfed x2 self care.
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Survivor uses the shard in the picture to mori themselves... Sounds fair and balanced, lol.
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I think completely changing an iconic perk like decisive strike would be a weird move since it’s been a staple perk for years now everyone knows what DS is all they need to do is change the stun to five seconds and then it would be perfect
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Upon hitting the skill check the survivor system crashes and they have a 30 minute penalty :(
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You'd need to chuck the entire game's balancing out of the window if you want to make tunnelling not be the lower effort, higher reward tactic.
Unfortunately, survivors do also get to play, and will want their own fair shot at winning, so that's not really an option.
Expanded with what?
DS cannot be weaponised. Any attempt to use it offensively is hard-countered by the killer -not- hitting spacebar on you.
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Did they release more details about the changes? Because it feels like people are jumping the gun with their ideas of what is changing.
I mean for all anybody knows they could not buff it at all and just tweak it to work a lil differently.
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Dying light was released at the same time and got a complete overhaul. Ruin ALSO was iconic AF and got a completely different effect. It's not insane to think DS might see changes like that.
Heck, maybe something like if a killer hits a survivor during their basekit BT timer, the killer gets hit with a hinder. This would remove the idea of God mode from survivors following the killer for a flashlight save, while also giving the survivor plenty of distance incase of tunneling to simply run away. Wouldn't come down to the killer picking up or not, and could be used twice.
I'm just spitballing here...
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Survivors that weren’t being tunneled, would run straight for the killer, to aggressively bodyblock the killer, because they had an active DS. If a survivor does that, it shouldn’t count as tunneling, and the DS should deactivate.
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Technically Dying Light still does the same thing. Just in a weaker way. Not to mention it doesn't require the poor obsession to be tunneled out A.S.A.P.
Its still a gen slowdown perk.
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And DS could still be an anti-tunnel perk with a different effect.
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I'd be fine with that as long as its actually a decent anti tunneling perk.
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Smack them once and it's dealt with. It costs the survivors more time than it does the killer. This is not a problem.
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And this is why it's for the best that DS has been weak for so long. People like you just want to weaponize the perk, to punish killers regardless if they are tunneling or not. If DS is supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk, then it should be anti-tunnel only, and we shouldn't have this weaponizing garbage where survivors try to force the DS on the killer.
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if the change was just 3 seconds to 4 seconds (makes more sense since the original perk was made 5 seconds long ONLY to counter enduring also reducing the stun) they would have probably just changed it without a second thought but its probably going to be an overhaul of the perk that demands you put something into it to get its strong effect since a chase reset and another health state you can use endurance effects like dh in would be a very common meta if current ds was just buffed
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Did you not forget something!?
Because while DS punishes this 'weaponisation' with lengthy incapacitation, we got OTR in exchange for it, which allows you to do exactly what you're complaining about WITHOUT that kind of penalty. Strangely, that one is not on your radar, or else you'd know what real, impactful weaponisation looks like and you'd stop whinging over having to slap a survivor once to knock 'em out for 30 seconds.
So how exactly, pray tell, has DS's execution been 'good for the game'?
Why is it so common for killers to look at situations that clearly benefit them and go 'This is too survivor-sided'?
Post edited by Rizzo on8 -
Na, i'll just start running a knockout slug build and bleed survivors out to counter it. Can't get DSed if you never hook anyone.
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What if, now hear me out here. They DON'T buff DS to bandaid tunneling, and instead create mechanic that prevents tunneling to begin with? Something that doesn't require a perk slot and for you to buy a DLC. That would probably be better for the game.
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If you honestly just want an anti-tunnel perk, then you should be fine if DS is changed so that you can’t use it to aggressively bodyblock the killer. Surely, the killer isn’t tunneling if the survivor does that, right?
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
That how you get rancor.
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It already does that. Sure, you can try and tune it even more, but it was already not a problem.
If you're really that absolutely mortified of a situation unfolding that is beneficial to the killer, sure, try and figure out a way to handle this 'problem' without impeding its function as anti-tunnel. Go for it.
But something tells me that whatever you'll come up with is going to undermine it entirely. I mean, if you thought the 4.6 onward DS was 'unfair to the killer' outside EGC, your balancing standards are down with No Mither, so I don't have high hopes.
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Using OTR as a replacement for DS is already not a problem, and you can just do that if you want an anti-tunnel perk. You can still use it to aggressively bodyblock the killer.
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They can buff DS to ten seconds as long as they never EVER bring its endgame viability back.
No Killer should have to go through that pain ever again.
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Almost like I have zero interest in bodyblocking the killer, which is why I want DS back, instead of OTR, huh?
EDIT: Also, how is OTR NOT a problem? The very thing you're complaining about with DS is a much, much bigger problem with OTR than it is with DS.
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Nope. DS should stay super nerfed, until BHVR can figure out how to make the perk anti-tunnel, without survivors being able to weaponize it against killers that aren't tunneling.
Besides, we don't need people running OTR and a buffed DS at the same time, so that needs to be addressed too.
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