Are generators speed a problem?
A new day, a new patch, but I guess this has been asked thousands of times but do you think generators are a problem? Are survivors repairing gens way too fast from your perspective? Is this the reason why killers in general are using 4 generator blocking/regressing perks?
Comments
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Gens are way too fast, but they are also too long. What if you have a bad start as survivor, you will have to not go down and sweat for your live to win. Most times when someone dies at 3-5 gens left, you have already lost. When only you and one other are alive, the gen times are way too long, therefore many survivors just wait until the other one dies to get a chance for hatch. On the otherside if there are people, who are way too good, you got no real chance as killer and the game is way too short.
I would like generator events to be introduced, where skill checks appear sometimes like in sadakos merciless storm and if you miss the gen blocks for some time. Then I also would make the gens to 70-80s. Especially when two people or more are working on a gen it gets more likely to happen.
Or the survivors have to find oil, mechanical parts etc for the gen and there is still a 70s time to do gens.
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almost every game has some combination of pain res/corrupt/pop/jolt, so on average survivors have to do at least 6 gens if the killer is even half way decent. If gens were any slower, solo q would be virtually unwinnable (already close as it is).
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Maps are the problem.
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SwF teams are more effective and fast on gens while solo teams are usually having trouble.
So i don't know what is the answer here.
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It would be boring for survivors to increase the time it takes to finish a gen even more. You should nerf Toolboxes and Speed-Up-Perks while nerfing their counterparts on killer-side like PR and Pop. Then, Hex:Ruin in its current state would become viable again too.
But the problem with this would be, that Chests would also become even more useless than now. Currently, thanks to the Grind, the Chests arent really needed at all anyway, because you earn so many BPs that you earn more Items in the Bloodweb than losing in a trial.
Its not an easy take to find the right solution.
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It already IS boring.
Killer gameplay is go go go. Always doing SOMETHING.
Survivors have times where they get to do nothing.
~Gens
~On hook
~Slugged (Crawl I suppose, so can omit this i guess.)
Not to mention, if tunneled, the survivor just doesn't get to play anymore lol.
Killers are using gen kick perks because there really isnt a better option. Like at all. If they do, they'll likely lose.
Blight and company are obviously not in this. They can come in perkless and destroy.
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When they actually sit on generators - they are way too fast almost for any killer.
In order for killer to keep up with gen speed, they have to chase and down survivors within 25-40 sec. (40 sec - worse case)
Now depending on the killer and map, sometimes it's impossible, so killer will have to switch and scare away survivors who sits on gens.
As a killer - map traversing is another reason. Not every killer have fast and quick map traversal.
Survivor's communications is basically a reason for getting gens speed nerfed imo. They can always communicate the position of the killer, and basically sit on gens 24\7 on different sides of the map.
Unlike soloq (poor sweathearts...) when they need to use their eyes, perks, intuition, etc... HUD is helping a lot in this case tho.
So... For the 300 times... How to bring Soloq experience closer to SWF? Adding voice chat for survivors only. But you will pay the consequences and they are not going to be pretty.=)
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No, generators are not too fast.
There's a combination of factors at play when killers feel like they are going too fast, though, and some of them do actually warrant attention. For instance, when a team of good survivors spawn on separate generators with good toolboxes and they don't mess around doing anything else before they start repairing, pretty much any killer is going to lose three generators in time for their first hook, and that's a huge detriment to overcome at the start of the match. Toolboxes and survivor spawns are absolutely worth addressing for this and other reasons.
On the other hand, we have situations where generators fly because killers aren't applying any pressure; they're focused trying to tunnel out one guy who isn't going down super quickly, or they're only ever occupying two survivors at once because they're very focused on reacting to unhooks, or they're running all four slowdowns and struggling elsewhere because most slowdowns in the game require action to use these days. In these scenarios, it's a case of the player needing to learn what they're doing wrong, and I do empathise with how difficult that can be in the moment without any direction. Still, it's not the game's fault, when these situations do occur.
To answer the last question, killers run all four slowdowns because it's easier than the alternatives-- or at least, the perception is that it's easier. At this point in the game I'm honestly not sure if you're shooting yourself in the foot by running four slowdowns even when you know what you're doing, I feel like you really would get more results from a better balanced build in all scenarios.
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Why do you think Killers run these perks almost every game?
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Almost every game BNP, Prove thyself, Hyper focus, Resilience, Deja vu.
I wonder why killers have to bring so much slowdown...
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Gens have always been too fast and still are. But I don’t know how you’d balance that without making radical changes to the basic game flow.
If you make something like deadlock or corrupt basekit, survivors will just hide. If you make repairing a single gen take longer, survivors will just get bored and quit (hold m1 simulator isn’t exactly engaging gameplay).
Maybe make it so larger maps require 6 or 7 gens to be done to compensate for the increased size? Maybe cap how fast a gen can be progressed? I don’t know. It’s a hard problem.
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Yes and no.
Yes because playing without slowdown is a pretty much guaranteed loss against halfway decent survivors. Even with slowdown perks the killer is still too slow to progress the game anywhere near as fast as the survivors can, which leads to tunneling being a more necessary and attractive play style.
No because survivors can't do much else. Outlasting the killer doesn't work, spam healing doesn't work but gen efficiency does work. Regression perks are also still quite strong and can force survivors to effectively repair more than 6 gens to power the gates, which makes tunneling an even more dangerous play style because a killer can buy themself a lot of time to tunnel one person out and then kill the remaining 3 easily because they couldn't progress fast enough.
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More than generators speed (repairing them is already boring) is the lack of a secondary and mandatory objetive for survivors (without considering the opening of the gates).
Some people have mentioned several times that a good secondary objetive would be finding a piece of generator in the map before starting to repair them and without that piece the survivor repairs that generator at 75% speed or so. I like the idea.
Currently killers rely too much on gen regression/protection perks and the meta builds have at least two of them making the suitable killer builds a bit boring if you don't want to lose 80% of the matches, so the idea of the pieces would slow the game a bit, making the gen regression/protection perks a bit less mandatory and making the survivor do one more thing other than just hold M1 and press space.
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This. I play both sides but mostly survivor. I honestly wish BHVR would just stop with anything touching movement speed and gen speed. These are literally the two things, as a killer, that messes things up and creates angst.
If these two things were reigned in, they could stop with the gen slow-down perks and people might actually have fun in the game. Maybe
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Gen speed is not a problem. Survivor efficiency is the real problem.
If good survivors last long (I'd say 1 minute at least) and go away from gen that teammates are repairing, killer cannot control both hook and generator at the same time which leads to killers being pressured. (Ironically this is the main reason why tunneling is necessary against good survivors.)
Remember that survivors don't need to repair more than 5 generators. As long as survivors didn't 3 gen until middle game and let killers come into the area where no teammates are, survivors can stick to gen.
Not all games are shockingly coordinated as comp games but you will see how crazy survivor efficiency is if you watch some of those games.
Unless the killer is top tier killer, all gens pop before 7 minutes. Even 6 minutes is possible.
The thing is most people don't have to know/do/think many elements as comp players but normal games can also be pretty wild if survivors focus on generators mainly and waste killer's time long in good positions. Of course, the problem is how solo queue lack information compared to SWF and garbage matchmaking.
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What is stopping the killer from running gen regression/slowdown in the second scenario? Good will? You didn't mention any nerf to those perks so I am gonna assume you mean killers will "choose" to play less competitvely.
But if you were around last year when a bunch of survivor perks got axed (and DH was first rewarded) and gens required an additional 10s to complete each, you'd expect killers would loosen up now that survivors in general had gotten nerfed. Instead we got one of the strongest killer metas as far as gen slowdown/regression is concerned with old Eruption.
So I a not sure your argument works, especially after having seen a similar scenario go live in the past. Imagine that the meta was so strong, that survivors got basekit BT, because tunneling came back on table with the DS nerf and regardless of all the buffs and nerfs that happened to perks and on a basekit level to both killer and survivor, killers still chose to play in a tryhard manner. (I am not saying the shouldn't when they have the tools, I am simply saying that this should always be the standard when judging a situation).
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I'd love to see average gen time stats.
Like, on average, how long does it take Survivors to finish a gen? How much regression does the Killer inflict on average?
How fast does the first gen pop? How about the 2nd 3rd or 4th?
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Survivors have nothing to do except gens. Survivors are way too overnerfed and every possible alternative playstyle/activity was removed as well.
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Mostly just gen spawns. I would say they go a little too fast. If they added one more good slowdown perk with the same anti tunnel design as pain res then we'd be in a good spot. But then soloQ just suffers more.
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always has been
mainly due to bigger maps / BS spawns for survivors and the lack of a early game mechanic for killers.
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Yes. 6min games shouldn't be a regular, but frankly this happens way to frequently.
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It is a problem from a mathematical point of view. A killer will never be able to chase several survivors simultaneously and completing a generator usually takes about the same amount of time as a simple chase. This is what causes the first chase to cost one-two generators or in the worst case up to three generators. It is also the reason why a bad start for either side usually marks the outcome of the match.
And yes, repairing is boring and all, it's one of the reasons why I'm playing less and less the survivor role. But it should also be added that when a killer is looped for five gens, the rest of the survivors don't seem to have a problem with having done nothing but repair. I have never seen them ask to have more interaction with the killer.
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I don't think the problem is generator times, but how every killer can maintain map pressure.
I think Blight and Nurse mains don't have any problem with gen speeds; but i suppose most of other killer mains have a problem, specially on the first chase.
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I say that the problem isn't the progression speeds, but rather the regression speeds instead. 4 seconds just to regress 1 second of survivor progress at basekit is baffling to me- If they buffed up the basekit regression speed to be double of what it currently is then that would fix the issue imo because that would make it feel like you'd have to rely a little less on gen defense/regression perks as killer and it would indirectly buff Call Of Brine and Overcharge which are two perks that need some buffs since they're completely garbage now post-nerf.
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Thats sounds like a good idea. I was brainstorming myself and came up with something else.
How about something like Corrupt Intervention. At the start of the match all gens are blocked by The Entity and the survivors must then do something to lift the claws, find some book, crystals, serums (maybe reusing the Cancer Plants from Tome 5). One alternative could be that this works like Corrupt Intervention, by only blocking the three furthest gens, and when the killer actually equips Corrupt, then all gens get blocked. Obviously, this block would be lifted at the first down.
It has been shown time and time again that the gen spawns are one of the biggest culprits of poor killer games, when three survivors spawn next to gens and can start working on them right out of the door, before the killer even had time to turn around in a circle. This could be too strong, but thats why its a brainstorm and not a ripe idea.
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No, why? because survivors have to do 6-7 gens per game with all the slowdown perks. Pop+PR meta is doing wonders right now, nerf gen speeds anymore and alot of people will be sick and tired of it.
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If the escape rate was high then there could be an argument for generators whizzing by too fast. As it is, kill rates are around 50 - 60%, which implies generator speeds aren't really an issue.
It's more mis-matching within trials between Survivors and Killers regarding skill and ability - moreso the Killer's ability for applying pressure. Whatever needs to be done, generators don't seem to be the main issue that needs to be dealt with.
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Nope, gens are not too fast. The issue is that most of the cast does not have any outplay potential to end chases quick enough once survivors reach above average level and don't make noob mistakes.
As nurse, blight, spirit, survivors have some tools to lengthen chase, but ultimately mindgames and your skill as well as who makes a mistake determines chase time.
As other killers, it is a "mistake" to try and chase someone in certain parts of some maps.
That is what needs fixing, not gens, but people aren't ready to hear that.
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Generator speed never were a issue, Its always an issue of weak players. And as long as the game is holding hands for killers with tacticts and regression meta, nothing will ever change.
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Imo gen speeds aren't the problem. I think the problem now is survivor's lacking a objective prior to gens. Right now survivors rely on killer's for a secondary optoinal objective weather it's downed/hooked teammate or Hex's that pose a threat.
Granted this is a core game issue but the only way imo they can address it, (which they've been doing) is making killer powers more interactive such as Sadako's Condemn or Temporal Slipstream. These are side(optional) objectives and don't nessesarily have to be done.
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I know right off the bat usually within the first 2 minutes of a game if its unwinnable as killer. 2-3 gens will pop and whichever survivors you engage with at the start if they are even half way decent loopers it's the kiss of death as killer. 2k at best if you play like a sweaty campy jack ass.
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