Why do you hate when killers tunnel but its fine when survivors do it?
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I thought Sloppy Butcher removed healing from the game, you're telling me it doesn't?
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Tunnelling gens makes survivors lose. They can't work on a gen if you just stay on it.
Or did you mean 'doing gens'?
Also
- Rushing a nearby gen right as the killer picks up a survivor
Tactical play when killers often bring heavy regression.
- Refusing to heal each other or themselves in order to gens
Healing got nerfed because killers didn't like it.
- Completely ignoring totems (and ironically then complaining about NOED at the end)
Boons were deleted, and NOED isn't countered by doing totems.
- Completely ignoring chests
Most items are not worth using, and the ones that are will never recover the time lost on opening the chest.
- Not body blocking
Is that a bad thing?
- Leaving teammates on the hook to work on gens
Killer might be camping, and a survivor on the hook can't be tunnelled.
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Because they are not really equivalent.
I understand where you are coming from but the reality is that you don't need to tunnel in order to win against the majority of survivors. Especially when using a top tier killer like Nurse or Blight.
The average solo survivor is barely hanging in there so when they get singled out and removed from the match early on it feels awful.
Side note but i see A LOT more tunneling (and camping) when playing with my inexperienced and more casual friends. Pretty sure you don't need to tunnel to beat the P1 Meg that hides from the terror radius.
On the other hand preventing Gen Rushing/Gen "Tunneling" is a lot easier. And even if you get a really good survivor team that is above your level you still get to play the match and get chases. It doesn't feel as frustrating as being tunneled out.
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So then in my scenario i mentioned. Would that be tunneling by the killer to go after the guy? Be honest with me. If the killer hooks someone, then hooks that same person again, is that tunneling? Or do you mean "just getting hooks"?
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Killers have one objective and four targets.
Survivors have one objective and five targets (out of seven).
So if you want to talk about survivors "tunneling" their objective then the correct analogy would be multiple survivors stacking on one gen.
Which is actually very inefficient.
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No, hooking him is not a problem. That's why the conspic action condition exists.
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So where to begin:
•Surely there’s a “All gens in terror radius explode when Killer picks up Survivor” perk on the way
•They murdered my CoH😔
•Still using InnerStrength since CoH is useless in SoloQ, which is chock full of teammates who complain much worse when we “waste time” cleansing those self heal totems🙄
•Not getting my hopes up digging for sth good only to end up w countless green keys or brown toolboxes anymore, just not gonna bother
•Yeah, I do body block for Survivors heading to exit gates; really have no issues w ppl doing that vs me
•Valid strat w 1 Gen left, let ‘em go to stage 2 to power the gates, but I suppose Killers are the only ones allowed to have ‘valid strat’ as our retort to legitimize whatever we deem acceptable, whenever we so see fit, I must just be outlier of Killer mains.
and yeah, I main SoloQ Survivor when I play that role, so frustration being an understatement is well understood…
I’m just not on here bitching about every minuscule discrepancy to a degree of redundancy that’s become commonplace to the extent of nearly accepted normalcy via these forums.
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There is no double standard. I play in a SWF that gets called gen rushers in postgame chat every other game. People complain about it just like people complain if I tunnel somebody. My Steam profile comments are a mix between "tunnels at 5 gens. Plays Nurse. Touch grass," and "Only knows how hold W, pre-drops."
My opinion: people really need to play both sides more, and most people that say they play both sides don't actually play both sides all that much. Players complain about efficient play equally.
Play in a way that makes the game fun for you. There is no playstyle that will win the DbD court of public opinion. It's not worth worrying about.
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Guess there is none. Cool
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"I'm gonna kick back"
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killers can still tunnel their objective (hooking survivors) just like survivors do theirs, that doesn't necessarily need them to hook the same person multiple times in a row. admittedly your chances of winning without tunnelling isn't very high against efficient decent survivors, so i'd actually love tunnelling issue getting solved and maybe gen times getting adjusted in accordance.
also you can always go for a slug play if they are that agressive on gens. against such survivors the match can turn into a whack a mole game really fast.
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To be fair a sweaty swf is really strong (and less common than aggressive tunneling). Makes sense you get those complaints. But Solo survivors are not going to get this kind of salt very often. That does not mean that they don't play the role often.
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Oh, I get it in solo queue too. Sometimes the killer is convinced the solo squad is a SWF and that is a problem for them for....some reason. Granted, someone on console would never experience a postgame chat meltdown either way. My point was more that an experienced player would have probably encountered complaints from both sides of the coin.
I get it though. Nobody is going to be happy over a 4k at 5 gens or a 5 gen run.
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“I will not tunnel, and play for 8 hooks before kill if the game guarantee me 4K”
Its the same to survivors only do totem and chest if the match guarantee them escape.
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Yeah that's a fair point. You are not wrong. But getting to that level as a solo survivor is not easy. Which is why i imagine tunneling complaints are more prevalent for average players. And might give the false impression that there is a double impression.
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Survivors cant tunnel by definition. And stop making those nonsense comparisons.
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Then killers can't tunnel either. It's just focusing the objective.
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Who do you main? I'm going of you profile picture here and going with Nurse. As the best killer in the game survivors will do this to at least stand a chance.
This is happening to me too with either UW or Lethal.
Another reason is that some survivors just want to give killers a taste of their own medicine which unfortunatly ends up hitting killers who play like yourself.
Ultimately it is a game with humans who all take the game at different levels and use different stratagies. Some people tell others to do terrible things to themselves others say GG. Some people Tunnel, Camp, tbag. Theres loads of stuff and no side is innocent. Different things annoy all of us.
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Then neither can killers.
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You can't "tunnel" a gen. What are you even talking about? Is this an episode of The Twilight Zone? Am I being pranked?
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Can killers tunnel a survivor?
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Do survivors get off a gen 33% done to work on a gen that has 0% progress?
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Only at suffocation pit. Pretty sure thats the only map with a tunnel.
To the topic. While yes its kinda hypocritical, but because its an aysmetrical "tunneling" gens is less....impactful? than "tunneling" a survivor so theres some merit to the whining. jmwjmw27 probably put it best with the second and third paragraph. If a killer tunnels (and we mean true tunneling, not survivors being stupid) 1 survivor is going to be stuck just running from the get go till the end while the other 3 will pretty much do their own thing till the target dies and get their "turn" or finish gens (which they're probably gona do because they may want their team to live or ya know...not be tunneled next). The killer can still do pretty much whatever they want, even if survivors "tunnel" gens.
As to the bullet points, some of those have actual valid reasons to focus on gens as others have pointed out. While there are a LOT of players willing to call "tunnel" for the most stupid reasons, there are some who do know theres a difference between your example and actual tunneling.
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So you're saying a survivor can kick a hook and regress the hook stage back to zero?
These are not comparable objectives, when one is permanent objective and the other is literally meta to slow down, regress, and/or completely undo objective progress.
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No, and I really hate it when I queue up for the role of generator and a survivor tunnels me out.
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The point i'm making is. If i had gone after that guy, and punished him for his mistake there. I would have been called out, called a "tunneler trash killer" etc.This is supposition on how a person might have reacted. In my games end game chat of any type if pretty rare, at most a 'gg gl next'. Sure, there are games when people are toxic, but its usually silence.
But let's say your region is different. Okay, don't take the comments people make after a game as serious. Trolling is, regrettably, a thing and many people are likely just trying to get a rise out of you because they lost. No one is going to post 'Hey, great job killer, I thought you were distracted by another chase, so I jumped on a gen, good eye seeing me there!' That's just not how people talk in online games.
In my experience on these forums most people who complain about tunneling want the emphasis to be on BHVR to make changes. There's definitely an element of targeting killers if they pursue an 'unfun' playstyle, but that goes both ways. Killers complain about survivors bringing 4 BNPs, ideally they'd like BHVR to address that, but barring it would prefer players to stop.
Ultimately fun is why both sides complain about the issue so much. Losing a survivor quickly results in a pointless slog for the remaining 3, SWF gen rush makes the killer feel like they can't even play the game.
Play how you want. I don't tunnel as killer because I hate the experience of being 3 v 1 with anything more than 2 gens left to go. If the chat bothers you, turn it off.
He's being sarcastic, Dunwich generally finds survivor complaints to be without merit from what I recall.
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I can't believe I have to say this but generators aren't people. Survivors aren't ruining the generators game experience by finishing them before they have a chance to play. What are you even talking about?
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Survivors is the role that can be eliminated. If being eliminated from the game is a problem, then don't queue up as the role that can die.
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If a Gen being done is a problem to people, they should not queue up as the role that dont want Gens being done.
I go back mostly playing killers (Myers to be specified) because I cant stand eliminated in 5min. Its killers main turn to play mostly survivors, they will not be sad when a Gen is done.
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The skillcheck simulator is a better game experience than confronting an actual player? If you escape without having been chased, it's practically as if you didn't actually play, there is no difference with the killer being AFK. You can genrush, everyone gets 14k bloodpoints at best because noone was chased and there was no altruistic actions, but that was a GG...
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The difference is tunneling effectively disallows that survivor from playing the game. There's nothing survivors can do that makes the game basically unplayable for the killer.
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When you tunneling a survivor that actual out skill you to the point other 3 will complete 5 Gens, then other 3 escape and not getting chased.
The other 3 survivors play skillcheck simulator, not confronting an actual player. They didn't actually play, The only difference with the killer being AFK is all 4 survivors play skillcheck simulator.
So your point that trying to make...is failed.
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Blame all the healing nerfs for the one point
the best thing is to have resilience so you do gens 9% faster
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It's tricky. Yes, survivors focusing on doing gens as fast as possible is really no different than a killer focusing on getting kills as fast as possible. I suppose the reason why many more people complain about the killer tunnelling is that when a killer tunnels, it removes much more agency from the other player.
The person being tunneled doesn't really feel like they got to play the game properly, as they were just constantly in chases back-to-back without even being able to recover between them. Especially if the person isn't very good in chase, they'll get killed super fast without having any fun and without getting any BP, and be right back in the lobby.
When survivors 'tunnel' gens, the killer still has all their agency. They can still start chases and down survivors and get hooks. They can still 'play the game', even if the game is much shorter. They'll still end up with some BP and maybe even got to have a good chase or two.
I understand that 'tunneling gens' is still very annoying for killers and when decent survivors actually focus on doing gens, there isn't much the killer can do to slow them down much, even with gen perks. Games go too fast at a certain level and that's a big issue that then causes people to feel like they have play in these efficent-but-unfun ways.
Still, when killers tunnel it removes much more player agency and I think that's the thing.
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Doing the gen is the most logical thing for him to do in that situation. It's nearly complete and you are not coming after him. Why waste time doing anything else?
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Survivors SHOULD do gens as fast as possible.
Killers SHOULD take every opportunity to remove Survivors as quickly as possible.
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Ha! I get 4k as Wraith without even uncloaking!
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I figured, but anytime anyone retorts with "i regularly 4k so its fine" on any argument i always ask for a video. It is a win/win/win situation. Because either:
A) They actually are legit and have discovered something that we as a community have not, so if they post a video, we all can learn and get better from it win
B) They are just flat out lying, in which case they either won't post a video or they'll say they don't have time etc. Thus, we now know we can just ignore their comment entirely because it is meaningless win
C) They do post a video, and they DO regularly 4k, but it becomes clear that the caliber of players they are going against is not the same as when these types of discussions are met. The survivors throw themselves at the killer, they are busy doing challenges, they just in general are really bad at the game. Thus we can point this out to the player, and they either learn from it on their side and now know, or they rage about it and we know we can ignore their comment win.
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But generators being done ends the game quickly and ruins the killers chance to play the game before it is even finished. Have you never gone against a SWF bully squad and get 1 hook and have all gens done in 4 minutes while they teabag the gates as they leave because they predropped 8000 god pallets and sent you to garden of joy?
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Again, we are just pointing out the hypocrisy here. Nobody is suggesting that killers "think gens being done is a problem" we are simply pointing out that killers get yelled at for tunneling, but nobody cares when survivors do it. The double standard is real.
Similarly people complain when killers bring Corrupt/Pop/Painres/BBQ on blight with god-tier addons, but when survivors bring, Adren/Resilience/Sprint Burst/Commodius/BNP/Insta heal/Sending you to garden of joy. That is totally fine though.
I'm simply pointing out double standards here because they tend to get ignored on these forums.
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Tunneling gens also disallows the killer from playing the game. If you aren't regularly losing 3 gens in the first chase due to efficient survivors, then you aren't at high MMR. Which is fine, but we are just pointing out how different our experience is.
It is normal for us to have chases that last 20-30 seconds, and still end up with only 1 dead and 5-6 hooks at the endgame hoping to hook the last one in the basement to at least secure a draw.
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If you are complaining about killers taking away "agency" you are playing the wrong game, or at least the wrong role.
The entire game is fundamentally DESIGNED such that, survivors attempt to do a thing, and the killers goal is to stop them, by removing the survivor's agency to do anything.
Being on the hook
Being slugged
Being dead
all of these things remove your agency to do anything as a player, either you are removed, or you are relying on a teammate to save you while you sit there and do nothing.
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You are one of the rare ones then, every day on the front page of here there is always some thread complaining about "killers tunneling"
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The level of gen efficiency you describe only happens at the higher levels and is not something solos can do consistently, on the other hand Tunneling happens at all levels of play.
This is why one is complained more than the other. The amount of survivors getting tunneled is higher than the amount of killers getting "gen rushed". This is not a double standard.
I am curious what killers you are playing that you normally struggle to get a draw. In my experience losing 2/3 gens early is common but not a big deal unless i am playing a low tier killer. After the first down you can snowball a lot of pressure.
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Tunneling means "A killer focuses solely on a single survivor until he/she is dead". Survivors arent killers, and SURPRISE killers are killers.Sigh.
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To avoid confusion remove the term tunneling, as its an arbitrary term used for a myriad of things, most of them BS, and its confounding your point.
A better point would be why is it ok to complain about killers playing very efficiently but not survivors playing very efficiently?
Well its not, but that's because both get complained about a lot from players on all sides.
However recently there has been a lot of vocalization about "tunneling" and when that happens sometimes silly fixes and changes get proposed that don't make any sense.
Basically the reason people moan about killers playing efficiently, is that when killers do, it often involves the early elimination of a player. Put simply some players don't like to be eliminated early. There it is in a nutshell. Early elimination.
Therein lies the problem as 4x survivor alive is rather lopsided past mid game, while 3x survivor is lopsided if achieved before mid game.
I personally don't think this is a big issue as getting eliminated early is just part of the game. But there is an army of people whom think this isn't fair, they offer up a myriad of different reasons for this, mostly highly emotional and accusatory of the other side for being unfair. There is an occasional rational one but often it doesn't really solve anything but they are trying to solve a non-issue in the first place, that's why there are no great solutions.
I like the fact that the threat of elimination is ever present in DBD its a great part of the game, I like the fact that the killer can choose to focus someone down and eliminate them just like a genuine horror film and like the fact the this game is mature enough to have no safety net in a lot of scenarios making it a very gritty and tense gaming experience.
I hope they never change it.
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>nobody cares when survivors [do gens fast]
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I generally play every killer, but i am a nurse main because she is the only killer who can compete at that level.
And that is precisely my point. The same people in this forum who will complain about that blight on a 1k win streak are the exact same people who will look at people like ayrun/otz/hens doing their big win streaks handicapping themselves as "totally fine" because "most people aren't at that level"
If one is ok, than the other is ok.
If one is not ok, than the other is not ok.
You don't get to have it both ways.
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The forum search is awful and most of those are probably threads where they are complaining about the killer tunneling.
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Tunneling also means : "A survivor focuses solely on completing a generators and forgoing anything else, such as healing, doing totems, or helping their teammates"
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