Lets discuss boosted killers
^Fog whisperers opinion.
Now that it's almost rank reset I've faced so many killers today who have no idea how to play the game. In the example above it's a Pig who only tunnels the person with the trap on their head, which is what happens in low ranks. For me it was a spirit who couldn't use her power in a chase at all, so instead like low ranks she uses it just to phase walk to the hook and back for the tunnel. Those aren't the only examples but they are the kind of killers I'm gong against, people who don't know how to play and who clearly don't belong at the rank they're at. That's if you even make it to endgame too, some just quit when they can't catch a player, or like my game the other day they throw a strop if a survivor manages to loop and juke for most of the gens - at red rank though you should expect survivors to be good and you should have hopefully learned some tricks on how to mindgame them. These killers clearly have not.
Not only is it too easy to pip as killer, but there is one thing all of these killers have in common - I've timestamped the video so you can see exactly what that is. Hint: It's a Hex perk.
It really sucks the fun out of the game and makes me question why I bother to rank up.
Comments
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I don't find much to discuss.
If they suck more than the high rankers and the ranking system allows them to rank up while sucking more, then the ranking system is not doing its job.
I know there's more to it than that, but i don't really have nor want to go deeper right now.
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If rank system was based on hours played this would not happen.
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Hours played doesn't represent ability relative to killer or survivor play.
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It's too easy to rank up. There are many potatoes in rank 1. Both killers and survivors.
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NOED is a ######### perk that boosts bad killers far beyond where they should be. It allows them to play with their crappy playstyles.
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I think you have a trutalent fetish
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Hopefully they adjust the new ranking system properly. But also; Why is it only bad killers when noed is mentioned? Never once have I seen a post attributing its use to a skilled killer. Yes the perk can help a bad one, but if their skill is that low you should be able to win 1 last chase while the gate is being opened. If they are too strong maybe they baited you into false security.
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I would never use Noed, only hex I am using is Ruin. Too risky.
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The inflated ranks happen because of the 4v1 nature of this game.
A couple of survivors in a game are carried by the other survivors in their game and reach a certain rank. At that inflated rank these inexperienced killers feed off of boosted survivors and because of that they rise in rank. These boosted killers then repeat the cycle back towards survivors.
In both situations where survivor and killer get an easy win they don't really learn anything from those games so when they finally encounter someone who does know the ropes they get dumpstered.
Nothing you can really do about that in a game like this though since you either know the ropes or you don't. There's not really a comfortable in between for skill. At the end of the day it amounts to time played and how quickly you can adapt to a situation.
NOED has nothing to do with any of that either. For specific issues with killers I'd blame it on the fact that this game does a poor job introducing various tactics and just throws you in. You have to play both sides equally to get a good idea how players adapt to situations.
In my opinion though a bandaid fix for this would be introducing some optional objective system for killers similar to Last Year where each killer has their own special objectives and doing these objectives gives killers bonus emblem points or other rewards. This would pretty much be the daily system but in game every single game. Where killers are gently pushed in a direction to accomplish a goal rather than them resorting to tunneling because they can do what ever.
Ex - As Doctor
*Shock survivors 7/8/9 times
*Shock 2/3/4 survivors while they are working on an objective at least once
*Place 2/3/4 survivors into Madness Tier 3 at least once
Those would be visible objectives throughout the trial and would vary based on killer. To clarify again though this would be an optional thing to make a subtle suggestion to the killer to be active on the map.
Main thing to note about the example I gave is in order for the optional objectives to be fully completed you need to interact with all 4 survivors. Also note that this bandaid fix is suggested under the idea that killers are tunneling one target all game. At the end of the day you can't solve that but making other options more appealing seems like a good route regardless of solution.
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So in my opinion there are too many crutch perks. BBQ, Ruin, NOED and nurses calling and the problem is that these can all be used at the same time on any killer. Now I'd suggest making it so teachable's aren't a thing but that'd cause it's own set of problems. All we can do is play the game and hope that some re-vamping of the rank system happens to make sure skill is actually required.
And before anyone says anything, I consider myself a killer main and I do know that there are certain perks on survivor you can consider crutch perks but with infinite looping being a basic thing in this game the perks are less meaningful as they are on killer.
This is just my opinion though.
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Tru3 salt
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Why not have individual ranks for killers, and have it weigh their actual rank?
I'm not great at killer, but I sure as hell play them poorly when I first get them vs when I have a full build + decent addons + hours upon hours of experience with their power. Since it doesnt look like we'll be getting an offline practice mode anytime soon, that could be a good compromise if it could be worked into matchmaking s o m e h o w
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A crutch perk rewards you for sucking, bbq, ruin, and nurse’s calling are not crutches. But noed is.
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Ruin kind of is a crutch actually. You can see a stark difference in skill when you face a killer that doesn't use Ruin but still bodies you. While it is somewhat necessary to slow down the game, too many killers rely on it exclusively to slow the game for them and have no idea how to generate actual gen pressure. You can tell because they get completely destroyed in games where it goes down quickly. They especially do poorly against survivors that can just work through Ruin. They never take the time to kick gens or anything, they just let Ruin do the work for them. A truly skilled killer will still make you work for those gens even after Ruin is gone and can keep the game going.
IMO Ruin is as responsible for boosted killers as is NOED. Especially when you consider that most survivors will just not do gens and look for Ruin instead.
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That kinda depends on the killer. Trapper and Hag in particular need that early time to set up any map presence, Myers can benefit from it greatly to get out of tier 1 and have actual move speed, etc. Its mostly the top tier killers who can generate stronger map pressure from the start without ruin, especially nurse and billy.
The Plague's perk that locks 3 gens for over a minute from the start is an interesting idea as an alternative to ruin, I feel like on some killers it might be a more consistent alternative. That said, I wouldn't call ruin a crutch for the exact reasons you mentioned: it can be countered very hard by survivors who aren't clueless, or can even just not miss skillchecks.
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NOED is an ass perk. I'm a R1 killer main, hate it and never use it. 90% of my games are finished by the time 5 generators are repaired. I'm not going to run a perk that I might use in 10% of my games.
BBQ, Hex: Ruin and Nurse's Calling are strong perks but can all be dealt with. BBQ - get in range or hide in a locker, Hex: Ruin - destroy the totem, Nurse's Calling - stay out of range. In no way are they crutch perks.
I agree that ranking needs work though. There is a massive range in skill levels at R1. This applies to survivors more than it does killers IMO. Every survivor at the highest rank of the game should be able to pallet loop effectively, dodge hits and know how to juke killers. I come across way too many survivors at R1 who are no better than survivors at R10. They get there either because they're carried by SWF or they play the game a lot. Anyone can reach R1 if they play enough.
The same applies with killer. Although no killer has been carried to R1 by friends like some survivors. They've either played the game for a long time or they're legitimately good at the game. Either way, I refuse to believe that there are 'noob' R1 killers in the game to the same extent there are 'noob' survivors.
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Playing killer is a pain in the ass.
Survivors tend to demand killers to play a certain style and the ranking system is rewarding for bringing fun to the survivors and for the survivors, robbing fun from the killers.
As killer you mostly have weak perks and weak powers, while the abilities of survivors are much easier to understand and can be much more powerful.
People who find fun in the playstyle of chasing someone 24/7 while getting gen rushed and t-bagged at the exit gate, have to be brain damaged.
Killers should be rewarded for their hooks, only their hooks.
That's what it is about.
The only devs job then would be to buff killers to a decent level which is not devastating but fun and fair to play.
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I know it is somewhat bugged right now and may not even be a fix once implemented, but the new ranking system seems to scale the difficulty so that lower ranks can't accidentally wander into the higher ranks as easily. I can understand how such situations would be frustrating, though, and can understand annoyance that may come from a single perk being able to push someone up through the ranks, but that could be more of a testament to how forgiving the current pip system is. NOED is like Adrenaline where they both are quite situational. Adrenaline can go off during chase, for instance, but it's just as likely to go off while fully healed on a gen. Likewise, the NOED totem may have been cleansed or they just don't get that many people. I had a game where the killer had NOED and he got one person on the hook thanks to it. I was able to sneak over and get him off and everyone got out, though.
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Sorry I don't really buy into this idea "X killers need Ruin". I've played Trapper and Hag without it and have still managed to win. My early game suffered, and survivors usually were able to get 2-3 gens done pretty quick. But if you play smart and take time to protect the right gens you can stall the mid game and get a snowball going. Ruin makes killer complacent with just chasing and not pressuring gens themselves. Sometimes you need to break chases and kick a gen, or slug a survivor if you have the chance to get another to get that sort of pressure going.
Case and point, I play Freddy at rank 1 with BBQ/Nurse's/Surv/Rancor and I generally have no problem controlling the pace of the game. And that's because I don't just chase every survivor I find. I sleep them, protect gens in key spots, scramble them a bit so they waste pallets, and play strategically. If the weakest killer in the game can control gens that well, it's safe to say any killer can.
Case and point part 2; My usual Spirit build is BBQ/Thana/Sloppy and now Stridor. At the time of this game I was using MYC because sounds were so bugged. Anyway, I saw 4 toolboxes in the lobby and decided to use Ruin instead of Thana just in case. Well guess what, as soon as my first chase ended Ruin popped, about 40 seconds into the game. I had to WORK for the entire rest of the game to keep them from finishing gens. They made a mistake of leaving 3 gens close together by shack (this was Thompson House BTW) so I protected the CRAP out of them (they didn't 3 gen themselves, I purposely forced them into a 3 gen by protecting those gens). I managed to still 4k that game by taking the chases I knew I would win, slugging where I had to, and protecting the gens. Yes, they got to exit gates but only just barely then I won before they got the gates open. It was probably one of the hardest games I've ever played where I still 4k'd, but I did it.
Playing without Ruin is indeed not easy. But it's also a valid option if you play strategically. It's so easy as killer to just put Ruin on and not worry about gens. Lately when I play with Ruin it almost feels unfair with how easy it is to stall the game.
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If they find you out in the open or are able to chase you down (remember: they're faster), they'll down you. A lot of the bad killers with NOED also resort to camping and survivors sometimes get miffed due to that or due to killers ultimately getting rewarded for poor gameplay. You'll sometimes find people who camp whoever they hook relying on NOED to help them get the rest or at least one more kill so that they may pip and that happening is quite annoying. I've heard people say "just avoid getting downed," but anyone who has played survivor should know the likelihood of that and it's unfortunate when you're that person getting tunneled and downed, then camped.
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There is no such thing as boosted killer. 4/1 means only survivors can be carried and thus boosted.
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"I've played Trapper and Hag without it and have still managed to win." is anecdotal evidence. You're ignoring the fact that, mechanically, they require set up time. If you have games where survivors cannot capitalize on that setup time, more power to you. That does not address the fact that it is an inherent flaw when paired with the amount of progress and momentum that survivors can generate during that interim. Like you mentioned, your early game suffered, which is exactly what Ruin is intended to alleviate. If you want to make the git gud argument vs using Ruin, then you should have no problem going perkless/addonless. after all, Tru3 was able to get to rank 1 with a rotation of all killers that way, and was able to rank 1 as survivor with only no mither. I guess everything is a crutch since he was able to do it?
Freddy is a killer that excels only at creating map pressure and slowing gen progression, so he's not a great example. TBH the way you described playing him is the exact way TO be successful as him, its mostly when people try to just chase one person at a time that they complain how bad he is. He needs work to be sure, but he can be a beast at map pressure.
You seem to be mistaking most people's stances on Ruin. Most killers are happy to even get 1-2 hooks before it pops. Everyone knows its horribly inconsistent due to how messed up the totem system is, but that only further lends to the fact that its very hard to call it a crutch perk. It's a high stakes gamble that rarely has a decent payout. The only reason so many people consider it so important is because of a bigger underlying issue, which is how fast gens can get done when done optimally. My argument is that different killers have different degrees of efficiency in their built in map control tools, which I'm pretty sure is a universal opinion. You have to admit that a killer like billy has a ton more map pressure than, say, the clown.
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@Ryuhi "You're ignoring the fact that, mechanically, they require set up time. If you have games where survivors cannot capitalize on that setup time"
But they do, I even said that. They do 2-3 gens while I'm setting up or getting my first chase going. That doesn't stop me from stalling the mid game and getting a snowball going that I can still win. Even against good survivors. Yes, Ruin would stop that but it's not exactly necessary if I still have the ability to stall the game. It's definitely way harder to get momentum going without Ruin like that, but it's entirely do-able. Hence why I say Ruin boosts killers because it takes a lot more skill to play without it and still win.
My point is that Ruin makes killers complacent with not protecting gens. They just put it on and get a snowball going before it pops, at which point gen protection is irrelevant. You can tell killers that don't know how to play without Ruin because when it goes down quickly the lose really hard. As I said, it's a stark difference when you play a killer that has the ability to control the pace of the game without Ruin. You can tell how good they are as killer. But when a killer has Ruin it's hard to say if they are a good killer or if Ruin just did the work for them. Especially when so many survivors can't (or won't) do gens when Ruin is up. It carries killers the same as NOED, the only difference is that it's early game instead of end game.
Like if you get those 2 hooks before Ruin pops and no gens have been done yet, that gives you such a huge lead as killer that you very well might 4k just because survivors can't recover. Now the question is... did you get a 4k because you are a good killer or did you get it because Ruin neutered the survivors' early momentum? Considering you didn't do anything special to get that pressure at the start of the game, I'm more inclined to believe it's the latter.
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When I say they are crutch perks I am referring to the fact that a lot of killers struggle to find survivors without Nurses calling and BBQ. I know there are counters to them and a good survivor can counter but those perks allow the killer to have a general idea where someone is and using Ruin, BBQ, Nurses and NOED at the same time is completely a crutch build but again this is just my opinion.
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Your "its hard but doable" is why I brought up the perkless/addonless argument. Anything is doable, but there are factors beyond your control that will always affect their feasibility. The same can be said of nearly every addon and perk in the game. Are charge time reductions a crutch for billy? Are dead rabbit and/or M&A crutches for Myers? None of them are needed if the player is good enough, but they provide two important roles: lessening weaknesses in the killer, or promoting strengths.
Your interpretations of how killers feel about using Ruin is incredibly anecdotal and presumptuous, as many killers still do maintain map pressure while also having ruin active. Thats not to say that every killer does, but to imply that it makes them incapable or unwilling to do so entirely is a bit foolish. If anything, the transient nature of the perk is the biggest contributor to your concern about its playstyle: Many killers feel like they need to snowball as fast as possible for it to not be a wasted perk slot. Again, thats less it being a crutch and more it being dependent on a very poorly implemented mechanic that (hopefully) will be improving.
Like you mentioned, good survivors will be able to either bust the totem or work through it easily enough. So if they ARE good, and you DO manage to get 2 hooks before a single gen, then that scenario would likely require you to have applied at least some pressure.
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Tracking perks exist for.... tracking. Its the same as survivors who can't avoid a killer without Urban and Iron Will, can't escape a chase without Dance with Me and Lightweight, and so on. Survivors have much less telltale signs than the killer does in terms of presence, and they can be masked even more through things like cosmetics and lighting. To be honest, the biggest bonus that Nurses especially provides is the counterplay that survivors apply to it: it forces them to keep getting further away from the killer before they can try to heal. Obviously seeing someone sitting there healing right on the other side of a wall is great... but just through thinking and or knowing a killer has it, healing efficiency can go down a ton. And especially if they don't have iron will, it can straight up becomes the difference in hearing them moving or even trying to make a break for it.
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@Ryuhi To be clear, I'm not saying using Ruin makes you a bad killer. I'm saying that using Ruin is a very passive boost to killers. They don't need to do anything, they just equip the perk and it slows down the game. This is why I compare it to NOED, because it's very much the same. Equip NOED and if you fail to protect gens it's just given to you. Killers don't do anything to earn that power, unlike every other killer perk in the game. BBQ's power can only be used if you catch and hook someone. NC's power can only be used if you injured someone. Thana's or Sloppy's power can only be used if you injured someone. Remember Me's power can only be used if you find and hit the obsession. You could argue that something like Brutal Strength or Whispers is passive too, but they still require some action on the killer's part. BS requires you to get the survivor to drop a pallet. Whispers requires you to still find the survivor, you just have a better grasp of where they are. This is also ignoring the fact that these perks don't impact the game as greatly as NOED or Ruin do. They can't single-handedly win you the game as killer.
It's just becoming more and more lame to play survivor and EVERY killer uses Ruin. It's boring and unfun. I want to play against killers using more varied builds. It is very possible to make strong builds without meta perks, it just comes down to strategy. And it shows your skill as killer when you can play like that too.
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There are other passive perks like you mentioned, but most importantly Ruin can be hard countered to the point of non-existance. And unlike NOED, it doesnt require either destroying 5 totems, not waiting until the end of the game and destroying the one it picks. It can be destroyed in as little as the time it take a survivor to walk 3 feet and start holding M1. There are times where the killer can literally sprint directly to it the moment they gain control, and still not reach it before its destroyed. Its absurdly transient and inconsistent, which makes it impossible to be considered a crutch since it would essentially equate to a crutch made out of glued together toothpicks. I understand your argument that most killer perks require a pre-requisite, but if you need to think of it that way, think of it like this: The killer needs to be able to defend Ruin, especially once a survivor finds it.
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The difference between playing perkless and just playing without Ruin is that when you play perkless your purposely ignoring a key dynamic of the game and that is your build. Your build determines your overall strategy as killer. Playing without Ruin is not ignoring the dynamics of the game, it's choosing a different approach to the problem. The reason people don't tend to do this is because it requires some risk taking in the form of experimentation, which is why it is harder. Also, like most strategies, there will be weaknesses that you have to account for, and unless you get experience in dealing with those weaknesses when the crop up it will seem harder as well. Like when I run my Thana/Sloppy combo I know one of the big weaknesses is just not injuring survivors fast enough, which usually comes down to how quickly I find them. If it's a game where I'm struggling to find survivors, the weakness of my build will be more glaring. That doesn't make it less effective than using Ruin, it just means I need to alter my tactics to account for it.
"Your interpretations of how killers feel about using Ruin is incredibly anecdotal and presumptuous, as many killers still do maintain map pressure while also having ruin active."
Sorry no, just kicking a gen that's running every now and then is not map pressure. Like I said, you can clearly tell the killers that know how to play without Ruin in their ability to continue map pressure when it's gone. Killers that don't know how to play without Ruin get run over the moment it's gone. You can say it's anecdotal but I see it all the time. I'm not saying ALL killers either, you see to be assuming that's what I mean, no. I just mean that you can tell the difference between a good killer and one that just relies on Ruin to do the gen pressure part for them.
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"You can say it's anecdotal but I see it all the time." Thats literally what anecdotal means. You're making a presumption based on personal experience, and ignoring the fact that the contrary can exist beyond your personal perception. According to your stance that "you can clearly tell the killers that know how to play without Ruin in their ability to continue map pressure when it's gone." then the vast majority of killers are so good it has no impact on games in itself, or the latter must be a rare mythical unicorn. For killers to rely on ruin as hard as you're claiming, they have an abysmally low chance of getting into single digit ranks, and even worse are playing on hard mode with only 3 perks most of the time. The reason why its not even close to comparible to NOED in this regard is because NOED causes abrupt dynamic changes, and almost entirely guarantees kills when it procs. THAT is what makes it a crutch perk, the fact that it can turn a 0 kill game into a 1-4 kill game in seconds. It doesnt directly adjust the speed or flow of the game, it just faceplants survivors and forces them to either find the totem while at a large risk, leave, have a slight chance of actually outplaying normally, or fail and give the killer more kills for free. They're incomparible, especially in regard to their affect on final outcomes for games overall.
With NOED you can play pants-on-head potato tier and still get at least 1 kill, but with ruin you're more likely to be punished for even taking it than you are to get any sort of victory for using it.
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I feel like the Gatekeeper emblem needs a huge adjustment to punish those who can't put pressure on generators. I use NOED sometimes, I'll admit it but I'm such a good Nurse that it ends up being a waste of a perk slot because all of the generators never get close to being completed. Same thing with my Spirit, generators never get close to being completed because I know how to apply pressure. Currently, I favor the PTB Gatekeeper version as it rewards even less points to the killers who can't apply proper pressure and will keep the killers who rely on NOED in the bottom ranks.
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"It can be destroyed in as little as the time it take a survivor to walk 3 feet and start holding M1. "
But it goes both ways, because for every game where this happens there is a game where it's up for the entire game and gens don't get done purely because of it. Like I've had games where no one every found my Ruin and they barely do 2 gens. I didn't necessarily do anything special, I just equipped Ruin and got lucky.
Also defense of the totem is not a prerequisite for gaining the effects. You have to defend Devour Hope as much as you would have to defend Ruin, but you aren't just given a one shot and mori, you have to earn it. Ruin doesn't require the killer to do anything to gain the effects and thus it's a passive boost to the killer. And when a killer relies on that passive boost, in that sense Ruin is a crutch because it's doing the work of map pressure for them. Against the majority of survivors, this is enough to sway the game on it's own. What would have been a loss for a bad killer turns into a win just because they equipped the perk and nothing else.
Again, I get Ruin is needed in some context, but if you can't play without it (as in you can't play any other strategy) it becomes a crutch that carries bad killers to higher ranks. As much as add-ons like Prayer Beads can be a crutch for bad Spirit players if they can't win a game without it, because that says "I can only succeed using the easiest strategy". It's all about context.
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@Nickenzie You play Nurse and Spirit, these are very good killers. You can't apply the same rules to Freddy or Leatherface.
Edit: forgot to add the @
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@Ryuhi "You're making a presumption based on personal experience, and ignoring the fact that the contrary can exist beyond your personal perception."
I'm not saying the contrary can't exist. And I'm not just speaking from my personal experience from playing the game but also what I see when others play the game (streamers/YT). If I were to point to a single instance of it, or even a few instances of it, then yes it's anecdotal. But when it's CONSISTENTLY happening across my and others experience, it's not anecdotal.
"With NOED you can play pants-on-head potato tier and still get at least 1 kill, but with ruin you're more likely to be punished for even taking it than you are to get any sort of victory for using it."
Yes, NOED is more of a crutch than Ruin, but that doesn't mean that Ruin isn't also a crutch to a degree. Like I said before, for every game where it's gone quickly there is a game where it lasts a long time. If all a killer needs is 1 or 2 hooks to get momentum going, then that right there is enough of an impact on the game to say "Ruin did a chunk of the work for you" since you had to apply no map pressure yourself to get that momentum. You just equipped a perk and did you, got lucky no one found it fast enough, and snowballed into a win. If you did the same thing without Ruin, using a different build, then you more rightfully earned that win because you were active in all parts and thus are a more skillful killer.
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I mean you keep calling it a crutch by saying killers rely on it too much, but again that makes almost anything a crutch by that logic. I meantioned M&A and dead rabbit on myers because it makes his TR super small when not in a chase and T1/2, but massive while in a chase and/or T3. And thats a yellow addon (not even a purple like you mentioned) paired with a teachable. The entire concept of builds is that there are things that synergize well with one another, and people based their game off of it. If you consider any killer boosted unless they avoid using Ruin, and consider it a crutch in the same context as NOED, then your definition of boosted becomes incredibly arbitrary.
Its a high risk, random reward perk. Its effectiveness relies entirely on a combination of the competence of survivors, and flat out luck. At high ranks it becomes abysmally inefficient, yet the small change it makes to early game momentum is why people still run it a lot. Again, I'm interested to see how much the new gen blocking perk for the plague affects it, and whether it will subsequently be deemed a crutch too.
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"If all a killer needs is 1 or 2 hooks to get momentum going, then that right there is enough of an impact on the game to say "Ruin did a chunk of the work for you" since you had to apply no map pressure yourself to get that momentum."
Lets plug in the example I mentioned about Myers:
"If all a killer needs is 1 or 2 hooks to get momentum going, then that right there is enough of an impact on the game to say "Dead Rabbit + M&A did a chunk of the work for you" since you had to apply no map pressure yourself to get that momentum."
That combo does literally nothing for map pressure, but it can lead to downs/hooks due to it masking your TR and allowing you to get very close to survivors before starting a chase. Hell, you could even apply it to just the clowns bottles as they make is so you don't need to know how to mindgame loops very well. It just becomes such an arbitrary line in the sand to use as an absolute measure of whether someone is "boosted."
If your counterargument is that you need to not be seen while approaching in the example I mentioned, then there's nothing more to even be discussed tbh.
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You have the perks to alleviate the consequences such as Ruin, Pop Goes The Weasle, Sloppy Butcher, Franklin's, Thanatopobia, Huntress' Lullaby, and even certain killers have powers that are designed to slow the game down.
Here's a build that I use on my Pig:
BBQ, it makes survivors waste time going into lockers or else they can't finish the generator because they will be interrupted by the killer.
Hex Ruin (or Courrpted Intervention), this allows for some early mistakes and if you can get some hook momentum, survivors will likely not have enough time to search for the Ruin totem.
Make Your Choice, it allows me to potentially get more momentum by downing healthy survivors. If the exposed survivor decides to hide, that's 60 seconds of them doing nothing.
4th perk can be anything that you want, preferably a perk that boosts your lethality during a chase such as Play With Your Food or Enduring.
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@Ryuhi "If you consider any killer boosted unless they avoid using Ruin, and consider it a crutch in the same context as NOED, then your definition of boosted becomes incredibly arbitrary."
I never said ANY killer. I'm saying it boosts some killers in a similar way to how NOED boosts some killers. It comes down to how well you can adapt and play with different strategies. If you just can't ever win a game unless you use NOED or Ruin, then you are boosted. If you could have won a game without using NOED or Ruin, then you are likely not boosted. Again context matters.
Like if you can't play Myers unless you use Dead Rabbit and M&A, then in that context it is a crutch because you lack the skill to adapt to new strategies. That doesn't mean every Myers that uses DR/M&A is boosted, just that some may be. And I'm not saying that you have to play with different strategies every time either. If you enjoy playing Myers with that stuff, that's fine. It only becomes a crutch when you just CAN NOT succeed when playing something different.
Here is an example; Basketball.. if I can only shoot 3 pointers, does that make me a great player? Should I be drafted into the NBA? Not necessarily, because it depends on how well I do other stuff in the game too. Not the best example, but that's kind of what I'm trying to get at here.
"I mean you keep calling it a crutch by saying killers rely on it too much, but again that makes almost anything a crutch by that logic."
Yes, this is why context is important. There are so many factors in this game you can't make definitive statements about what is this or that without looking at the bigger picture. If you rely on anything, to the point that you simply cannot win without it, it is a crutch. If you can win without it, even if you use it, it's not a crutch. Ruin and NOED have more potential to be crutches because they have more impact on the outcome of the game than anything else, hence why I can say "this killer is boosted" because you can clearly see those times when a killer just can't win without them. Just like one could say "this survivor is boosted" because they can't escape unless they are in a 4 man SWF. If you can tell the difference between a boosted survivor in SWF and a skilled survivor that just happens to be in an SWF, then you can tell the difference between a boosted killer using Ruin/NOED and a skilled killer using Ruin/NOED.
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So literally anything is a crutch if someone uses it a lot and struggles without it I guess? How does that have less to do with issues that can exist in the game's core balance, and more to do with "well they must be bad git gud scrub?" It has absolutely no reason nor impact in discussion, and comes off more as gloating than being constructive.
Since there is no colorblind support (still) many people need to use perks that boost their tracking to make up for things that other killer players take for granted, like being able to even see blood. Does that make those crutches since they perform considerably worse without them? According to your context clause, they are requiring them to play adequately and thus they are a crutch, even though they are being used to offset a lack of accessibility in the game. Bloodhound, Stridor, Shadowborn, almost every perk can sometimes be considered necessary by players due to their inability to perform without them for various reasons other than "skill." Where do you draw the line?
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@Nickenzie If you really believe that, play Freddy or Leatherface with PGTW, Franklin's, Thana and Huntress' Lullaby against good groups. It will change your view.
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Ruin is a weird one bur I agree with @Ryuhi . Some killers do benefit from the set up time. It is possible to win without but often requires a much larger snowball.
I think Nurse and Billy on decent maps don't need it but many take it anyway. However play a slow killer or a killer with no map pressure on something like red forest or azarov's and it can be vital for buying you enough time to get momentum going. Call it crutch if you want but those maps are so damn large you can lose so much generator progress early on.
I don't think it's on par with NOED. Ruin comes into play when the killer is at their weakest - at the start of the game with 0 pressure while survivors are at their strongest - all 4 healthy, full map of pallets, killer not in sight. Noed kicks in when survviors are at their weakest - only 2 areas they could be which are the exit gates rather than spread over 7 gens, they might not have a full team left alive, and there probably isn't many pallets left on the map. The speed boost takes all skill out of the chase too.
Post edited by The_Crusader on1 -
Are we really gonna listen to the guy who has 0 grasp of game mechanics when it comes to understanding the game? NOED does a terrible job in giving the killer points and if a killer really relied on it to get a 2k he'd still only blackpip. Heck RUIN is MUCH better at giving killers gatekeeper if they suck at gencontrol while survivors suck at great skillchecks or don't find ruin in the first place which can also happen.
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I usually could care less if I rank up to be honest, but for some reason I managed to keep ranking all the way up to Killer rank 1.
Hell I'm not even what people call a "Good killer" I call myself a dirty killer as I will tend to not give a ######### about how I get my kills and not care about skill, pisses off survivors cause in all honesty I love it when they complain and ######### cause it makes me laugh. Though I don't really camp to be honest and tunneling usually only happens if I happened to run into a survivor that has been recently unhooked.
If I'm the Doctor, Freddy, or using Deerstalker, I will slug when two survivors remain, no questions asked really. Then that can increase my chances to take a 4k victory...unless the dying survivor disconnects to give the other the hatch (Which is absolutely funny. XD)
Overall I do wanna see a new ranking system cause it's pretty easy to rank. I also REALLY want End Game Chat on console (I'm on PS4) cause I usually love reading what they have to say, whether it be salt cause I used "crutch perks" or tunnel, slug, etc. Or if someone just gives me a simple GG (which I will not show my toxicity to them cause they're actually being nice, and I also do like it.)
Can't wait for the next DLC to come on console! Take care.
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This new forum FORMAT IS TERRIBLE on mobile Holy #########. Aside from that if you didn't cleanse all totems then the killer obviously deserved that NOED since you wanted to get out as fast as possible
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Ruin may help weak killers to rank up but noed - never. You will never be able to pip with Noed all alone. Noed actually deny killers points.
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It's baffling how many 1000+ hours ppl don't understand this. The only way to rank up with NOED is vs Super altruistic survivors
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Also once you get better at the game it becomes hard listening to tru3.
"She got quite high bloodlust because she followed me since that t-wall"
-Literally breaks an unsafe Pallet after the T-walls.
-The new harder rank system would literally keep him out of R1 himself so yeah, there's that.
-Complains about NOED when all it did at that situation was give a 4% speedboost and I'm pretty sure the guy only went after him because he wanted to kill a streamer.
Sometime's I'll use NOED, sometimes I don't. When I use it it's not a specific playstyle, NOED is a trapcard for the survivors, playing the endgame would just tell them that I have this trapcard in the first place. When NOED is up by the endgame that means that I either pressured the survivors enough to rush through the game to get away from me or that they genrushed the hell out of me and I failed, BUT then it's ALSO their fault for not looking for the NOED AND not leaving the game with NOED up.
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It's very ironic that you talk about boosted Killer mains and at the same time complain about a Killer perk that only affects bad and unskilled Survivors.
Every Survivor that is affected by Ruin in Rank 1 is effectively, as a matter of fact, a boosted Survivor. You're playing in the highest rank possible but you lack the skill to handle even the most basic thing in this whole game: You're unable to hit great skill checks.
Hex: Ruin is a perk that punishes bad Survivors and no one else.
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Yup and it needs a rework direly like most hexperks. These perks ######### over bad survivors mostly, good survivors don't care.
Generally along with ######### like Overcharge that also doesn't affect great survivors unless paired with a doc or unnvering presence.
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We weren't talking about Ruin.
Bur FYI Ruin still slows the game down even if survivors hit every great skillcheck, even though the vast majority of players wont hit every single great skillcheck. If it wasn't effective itnwouldn't be taken.
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