http://dbd.game/killswitch
What's the reasoning against hook grabs now?
I honestly didn't even think about this until just now. The removal of hookgrabs was due to allowing save attempts if the killer camps a hook, but now... the anti-facecamp mechanic prevents that situation. With that mechanic in play, the only time a survivor would get grabbed is in the event they are trying to unhook mid chase. Am I missing something?
Comments
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Hook grabs were removed?
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No, the AFC wouldn't prevent the killer for making an hook grab, since the meter stops filling up when a survivor is in proximity of the hook managing to do a save.
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yes a few update ago it's dumb I mean you hit them and just stop them doing the unhook animation
normally end in a trade unless the survivor gang up on you.
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I'm pretty sure it was actually because of the hooked survivor being subjected to the 'hook dance' between the killer and rescuer. That was the impression I got. That annoying back and forth on their screen.
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The AFC would remove the reason hookgrabs were removed... to allow a save attempt in event of face camping.
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This is it. It wasn’t about denying killers another body or whatever conspiracy these players have cooked up. It was to prevent the embarrassing issue of a hooked survivor being forced to go through a partial unhook animation (which was also used for trolling & harassment). According to the devs grabs (supposedly) favor survivor ping anyway so it’s not like killers should have been able to grab survivors attempting saves easily or often.
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Both of these are needed. The AFC mechanic doesn't do it's if a survivor and the killer are both standing at the hook, to prevent abuse cases. So if the killer just follows the rescuer to the hook and proceeds to attempt a hook grab, AFC isn't going to allow the save because the survivor is in proximity, and the hook grab could still instantly deny the save.
This would basically be a work around to the AFC mechanic for the killer by just guaranteeing a survivor is by the hook to stop progression. In other words, abusing the system to bypass the entire point of the system.
As a side note, it's always hilarious to me that hook grabs are such a seemingly hot topic. Apparently 'just wait it out' doesn't apply if it's beneficial to the killer.
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The idea of hook grab removal being due to survivor on survivor harassment makes no sense though since they can still do that part.
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Yep!
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If a killer follows a survivor to the hook, of course AFC wouldn't proc since that's not camping.
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As far as I know, the wanted to get rid of the grab game.
Peronally, I liked it, because it gave another layer of risk to unhooking.
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Dunno about survivor on survivor harassment, but I remember reading the notes and the impression I got was that it was kind of like a QOL thing for the hooked person.
"Grabs from unhooking Survivors have been removed. This means that the awkward mindgame when unhooking has been eliminated, helping to improve the gameplay flow"
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You’re right. It would still require the killer to interrupt the sequence. And the survivor can’t unhook either with another survivor there—even if the killer is nearby. That was their reason though so idk. Maybe they didn’t think it through.
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Jeez, that is awful.
If you go for a risky save, you deserve to get grabbed.
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Yes.
And you're arguing that the killer should also have hook grabs in this scenario.
Which is why I'm saying both need to exist together or the system does actually nothing.
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This is a piece of the dev update for hook grabs.
We’ve all been in that situation before. A Survivor runs toward their hooked friend, but the Killer is nearby, so you both play a thrilling game of unhook-chicken. The Survivor attempts to trick the Killer into swinging so they don’t get grabbed, meanwhile the Killer tries to predict when the Survivor may commit to the unhook to grab them and prevent the save. Beyond this scenario leading to some very awkward gameplay, this also makes it possible for a facecamping Killer to potentially defend the hooked Survivor and put a second Survivor into the dying state while they’re at it.
They use the terms thrilling game play when talking about "unhook-chicken", but then mention how this is used by facecampers.
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I'm saying there's no reason for AFC to work in the event that the chased survivor leads the killer to a hook. A different survivor should be attempting the unhook.
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Grabs in general favor survivor ping. I probably get the grab score event without getting a grab every other match.
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The Killer can still proxycamp or just be a few meters away to not fill up the meter. If a Survivor is nearby the Meter either goes very slowly or stops completely. This means that a Killer would be able to deny an Unhook if Hook grabs would still be in the game.
Saying that the AFC is preventing this (or that AFC prevents anything at all, lel) is just wrong.
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Yes that’s what Peanits and the devs have said. Grabs favor survivor ping (allegedly) while hits favor killer ping.
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This entire thread is about hook grabs.
You've admitted that AFC doesn't stop this, so to answer your initial post... if hook grabs existed here you'd have the exact same scenarios we had a few months ago before hook grabs were removed and AFC was implemented. BHVR decided they wanted killers to chase and not camp, so they implemented both.
That's the answer to your original question.
There's also nothing in 'the survivor should run away' that prevents the killer from just doing this with every survivor who comes along. You just seem to want free pressure for doing literally nothing at the hook, which is exactly why these changes were made in the first place.
Go chase survivors, that's what BHVR is trying to encourage. They don't even care if it's the same survivor (ie tunneling) but camping hooks or gens is not the gameplay they're looking to incentivize. Which is why they keep investing in mechanics to discourage killers from doing these things excessively.
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Yes, and this is still entirely possible with AFC. If there's another survivor in proximity (playing the hook dance) then the AFC bar won't fill.
Hook grabs should stay gone.
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A few reasons. Others mentioned grab animation trolling. It also made camping more viable. And the mechanic was very ping dependent. Worst connection usually won the hook grab standoff. It needed to go.
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I'd rather have no hook grabs than anti facecamp. Getting rid of hook grabs is the greatest step they ever took towards ending camping. The anti facecamp system is useless and I have seen it trigger in any of my games only once.
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Not anymore
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We're not at all though in the same situation. Hook grabs before allowed a killer to facecamp and grab any survivor trying to stop it. If a killer tries to facecamp NOW, AFC simply let's the hooked survivor leave.
The HEALTHY use of hookgrabs is the only thing being stopped now, in which a survivor who is mid chase decides to do an unhook. If you beeline to a hook mid chase, that's not the killer camping. You deserve to be grabbed.
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I would want anti face camp as an effect in perks, that would make it more useful, against real camping killers. For example in reassurance and other perks that have something to do with hooks. Not as base kit.
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A survivor mid chase who attempts a hook rescue will take two hits and go down in the process. You can then hook that survivor and you're still in the green. The survivor team is right back where they were before the hook rescue, only they're down one more hook state and one health state. So you've made progress as the killer.
The removal of hook grabs makes that stupid decision a little less stupid, but it is absolutely still a stupid decision to attempt a hook rescue mid chase.
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Yes I don‘t understand the removal of hook grabs with anti face camp existing. In chase they shouldn‘t be allowed to unhook in the killers face, then other people should have to go there.
I have a clip some weeks before the removal of hook grabs, where the stupidity of survivors was punished. https://youtu.be/HI52R31leyg?si=gSu_Sk1BKcmUw25L
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If someone is on the hook, someone NOT in a chase should get off a Gen to do the unhook. Allowing them to stay on gens so the person being chased can unhook is like you said, a stupid decision that rather than leading to 2 people on hook... leads to 1. That's not the same thing, that's reward stupid decisions.
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And if that chase begins a second before the rescue attempt because the killer is proxy camping?
I'm a proponent for killer agency. Killers should be free to proxy camp as a strategy if it makes sense in the moment. But there's never been a reason to reward that with a double hook. The killer is still at an advantage in a hook trade.
The idea that a survivor mistake should result in a double hook for the killer is stupid. It's like awarding the survivors with a free instant generator repair if they happen to repair the one furthest from the killer.
Hook grabs have always been bullshit, which I say as a killer. The hook dance was always stupid.
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Then the survivor has room to do an unhook without the killer being at close enough range to grab them.
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Add that to the colossal list of changes I disagree with.
It just keeps growing.
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Youve never proxy camped or been proxy camped then.
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With facecamping, there was no room for counterplay besides the unhook chicken. Lets not pretend this is true for proxy camping. Someone going for an unhook has room to approach a hook and attempt a play.
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I feel you there.
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There is no healthy use of Hookgrabs.
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Someone actually posted a link earlier of a 2 minute video with 2 back to back. You think THOSE grabs were unfair?
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These could have been hook trades and it would still be "fair".
Again, the idea that a hook trade isn't in the killers favour, and should instead result in a double hook, is assinine.
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Well, my friend, you can use it to punish a risky save.
A survivor should know when to save someone. If you went there while the killer was nearby, there has to be a risk.
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Hook trades do all of this.
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I'm not saying hook trades should be a 2 hook. Hook trades were a thing with hook grabs in the game too. I'm saying a dumb play like the one linked SHOULD be punished. It a shouldn't be a setup for a deliverance play or anything.
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Punish it with a hook trade then.
There's still no excuse for a ridiculous hook dance.
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Except it releases someone from a hook who would otherwise still be hooked, as well as activates any perk that results from an unhook, like deliverance. That's a big difference.
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And depletes the survivors hook states by one, and leaves an injured survivor in close proximity. The killer is still at an advantage.
In every game where someone attempts a rescue in front of me and results in a trade, it's never been in the survivors favour.
Hook trades are a great way to burn through survivor hookstates, where you'd otherwise need to wait 60 seconds for them to hang there.
You're already winning. You don't need to win more, especially when it comes at the cost of having absurdly ridiculous hook dance standoffs in the game.
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But grabs do it better, because it interrupts the unhook.
In the trade, the hooked survivor leaves. The killer shouldn't have a setback, even if it is a small one, because the survivors played poorly.
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But that is not camping, is it? Whoever lured the killer back to the hook with them, made a bad mistake. A mistake that deserves to be punished not safeguarded by the game. There is no possible way anymore to prevent an unhook, which is ridiculous because survivors can basically do whatever they want around hooks now and the worst that could happen is an exchange.
You can't grab them, you can't interrupt the unhook and you have little change to down them before they get the unhook. All of these 3 are in place and 2 of them work against the killer when a survivor plays reckless. That is the opposite of what should happen. Mistakes should matter. But in this situation they don't.
A killer can never guarantee that a survivor runs towards the hook. And if they happen to see you going for the unhook, then you made a mistake. You should play more careful than that. If the killer chases you around the hook, then they are no longer face camping. That is not bypassing the system. That is the system working as it should.
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How is it fair when the survivor who you chase goes for the unhook when there is almost nothing left for the second stage? It shouldn‘t punish the killer. The killer should get those two hook stages and not only one when the survivor risk that.
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A Hook Trade punishes a risky save.
What OP wants is to proxy-camp and then make it unable for the Survivor to unhook.
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Just let it go to be honest. It's been some time since it was removed and obviously it isn't ever coming back. There's no actual reason to reintroduce this at all. We all know why they removed it long ago.
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