Lets discuss boosted killers
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We weren't talking about Ruin.
Bur FYI Ruin still slows the game down even if survivors hit every great skillcheck, even though the vast majority of players wont hit every single great skillcheck. If it wasn't effective itnwouldn't be taken.
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On the PTB it is significantly harder to pip, this implementation will solve the problem of boosted killers mostly.
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And thats what he was talkign about. The vast majority at rank 1 cant power through ruin since they cant hit the skillchecks, but on rank 1 they SHOULD be able to.
totally legit point imo and if the ranking system would work properly, then it would filter out the potato survivors that cant power though ruin
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about 6-8% per gen if survs are perfect which literally is thanatophobia.
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They should be able to hit every single great skillcheck?
That's a very small percentage of players who hit every single one. I like how as survivor you're expected to be perfect but stuggle to pressure gens or catch survivors as killer and its not the player that sucks no its that killers need 1000 more buffs.
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nah, I also think that the only killers deserving of rank1 are ppl like Scottjund marth Zubat etc when we talk about killermains.
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If all survivors at red ranks suddenly "got gud" and managed to hit every single great skill check all the time you know damn well the killer mains would come here crying for skillchecks to be made harder.
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Last I heard, 90% of all skill checks are successfully hit. Do you think that's acceptable for something that's supposed to be a skill check?
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Why should they be able to hit great skillchecks?
Because there are other players that can do that and rank 1 is the HIGHEST rank, only the BEST players should be there.
I consider myself a mediocre survivor, but even I can power through ruin if I am in practice
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The skillcheck system in this game is a failure to begin with, feels like it's implemented for mobile gamers or some crap. We need a different system but that will never happen.
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It's to keep survivors focused and offers no progression.
Do you think all skillchecks should be DS sized?
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Funny you should mention that, because the DS skill check is absurdly easy as well. I used it in KYF and was surprised by how big it is. I used to think it was half the size of what it is now. I guess that explains why survivors almost always hit DS's skill check.
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We're talking ALL great skillchecks, not some. The idea of needing to hit 100% of them to be rank 1 is ridiculous, especially when skillchecks is such a small part of the equation. There is evasion skills, game knowledge etc
Why should the entity block off windows? Why bloodlust? Shouldnt killers be able to work around this? Why bbq shouldnt killers be able to locate survivors easily enough? Why Ruin shouldnt killers be able to pressure survivors enough?
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Blocking off windows and Bloodlust is a workaround around the bad mapdesign that this game has to begin with. Most killers CANNOT work around these factors, aside from that bloodlust is rarely used at high ranks because it takes too much time. Most of the time I end up with BL1 because I was chasing somebody after a pallet break into a loop, if the devs fixed acceleration to make looping like that impossible then we wouldn't need BL. Sorry that I don't feel like playing Spirit, Billy and Nurse.
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Just imagine for a moment what would happen if the Survivors in the highest rank possible were actually good. Crazy!
If you lack the fantasy, let me tell you what would happen: People would realize how incredibly broken the balance in this game is. They would realize that the "crutch" perks of Killers all rely on the incompetence of Survivors and that those perks are effectively useless in high rank, against skilled Survivors.
Ruin, BBQ & Chili, Spirit Fury & Enduring, NOED to name a few.
That's reality. Most Killer perks rely on the incompetence of Survivors, they don't reward Killers for good plays but instead punish Survivors for bad plays. As a result, they allow Killers to snowball quickly against potatoes but make next to no difference against Survivors that make no mistakes.
Now the Survivor perks are designed completly differently, they mostly allow Survivors to make up for mistakes and avoid punishment: DS, DH, SC, Deliverance, Unbreakable, ...
This leads to a massive balance issue in high rank: Killer perks become less and less effective the better your opponents are. They make no mistakes, therefore won't give you advantages. Survivor perks, however, become more and more powerful the better the Survivors are because they can nullify most if not all of of their mistakes with help of those perks.
It's really simple. Give bad Survivors 4 perks that allow them to nullify a mistake. If they make 20 mistakes, they'll only be able to nullify 20% of their mistake. Those perks won't really do a big difference for bad survivors.
Give good Survivors 4 perks that allow them to nullify a mistake. If they make only 4 mistakes because they're good, they'll be able to nullify all of those mistakes. Those perks will make a huge difference, allowing them to get away with no punishment at all.
Every good Dead By Daylight player will realize that at one point. It's the main reason why:
low skill Killers >> low skill Survivors
but
high skill Survivors >> high skill Killers
...and it's the reason why low skill Survivors think that Killers are OP while high skill Survivors recognize that they're way stronger than they should be.
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This is also the reason why doing a no-perp "challenge" on highrank killers doesn't do much in the first place because most highrank survivors will nullify most of the killer perks in the first place while also being stronger than a perked up killer when they have no perks themselves. This isn't because survivors in general are much better players than killers but because the game is tilted in their favour heavily.
Fixing the stupid looping or rather Killer-Acceleration issue should be a no-brainer for the devs, esp considering that removing the pallet loops would only affect super-high-skill survivors anyways since your average surv doesn't perfectly cut corners. I bet my ass that most ppl wouldn't even notice that.
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See here's that hypocrisy again.
Survivors are expected to play perfectly, but as doon as a killer comes across a team of exceptionally skilled survivors they're just going to beg for more buffs to overcome them.
Its like with all these responces at no point does the skill of the killer come into play. It's either survivors suck and need to get good and when they do get good killers complain that the game is too hard.
Some people need to reflect on their own ability.
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I was expecting a response like. I suppose you didn't even take the time to read through the whole comment before you started to type that, correct?
The good thing is that I won't be wasting time looking for a meaningful conversation with you ever again, as that seems to be a mission impossible.
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That's not 100% true,
The perks you mentioned (Ruin, BBQ & Chili, Spirit Fury & Enduring, NOED) have still a passive (ofc weaker) effect.
Ruin: hitting great will give no progression, unless they wasting time destroying it
BBQ: wastes a little bit of the time to go into lockers or hide behind gens
Spirit fury: survivors drop pallets earlier -> less loops -> less time waste for the killer
Enduring: less time waste, no matter if they drop early or stun you
Noed: Survivors waste time cleansing
But I see where you coming from, the passive effect isn't that good
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I can still manage a 2k with most weak killers (benchmark), it's not impossible like you're making it out to be. There have been some many changes to this game that killers don't struggle like they use to back in the old days.
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he said against a good group which probably means a coordinated SWF out to run out the exitgate instead of fooling around.
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I never use ruin unless I want a really chill game a killer CAN win without ruin but you have to play damn near perfect I personally dont use ruin cause I hate it as survivor. The ONLY crutch killer perk is noed. If survivors pressure gens even through injured state and are decent at loops theres nothing you can do as killer to stop them so I understand why ppl use ruin but it is definitely not crutch or making killers complacent nor "boosting" them cause a bad killer will still lose at high ranks cause ruin is destroyed quickly or the just dont care about ruin at all.
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well yea but survivors have ######### op perks too. DS, sb... then they have insta heals, bnp's, good toolboxes that let's you finish a quick gens even faster... why do you think almoust no killer wants to play against a 4 survivors with toolboxes or medkits? :O
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Calm down. I'm not saying DR/M&A is a crutch, I'm saying it potentially can be depending on the context. Where you seem to be inclined to just say "any killer that uses NOED is boosted" which is just a huge over-generalization. You take a situation out of context to make it a very black or white affair, when in actuality it's all gray.
When it comes to the game's balance you have to look at what is more likely to be used as a crutch. It's like a sliding scale. DR/M&A is very unlikely to be a crutch, mainly because it's impact on the game will be very minimal. But NOED/Ruin have a very VERY large impact on the game and therefore are more likely to become crutches for a player. They can both single-handedly sway a game, whether the killer is good or not.
As for the colorblind stuff... that's a different story. We aren't talking about these fringe cases where someone has some disability they have to overcome in addition to game mechanics. We are talking purely about the game mechanics and what constitutes a boosted killer in those terms.
Again, if you can tell the difference between a boosted survivor that can't ever escape unless they are in an SWF and a skilled survivor that just happens to be in an SWF, you can tell the difference between a killer that is boosted by Ruin/NOED/whatever else and a skilled killer that is just using these perks.
@The_Crusader "Some killers do benefit from the set up time. It is possible to win without but often requires a much larger snowball."
Yea I'm not denying that a killer can benefit from the set up time gained by Ruin. I'm saying that it's not exactly necessary if you have a good strategy as you can stall the mid game and get a snow ball going there as well.
@TheEndOfSolace "I never use ruin unless I want a really chill game."
Yes this is what I'm saying. I put on Ruin so that I don't have to try nearly as hard to have a successful game. Sometimes it almost feels like Ruin is doing a chunk of the work for me in those games where it stays up. I can screw around a bit more and not worry about playing super well.
Like last night I played some games as Pig. One game my Ruin was in the top part of Blood Lodge and the survivors did not find it until after 2 were already dead, and they just barely finished 2 gens. I got the 4k (well 3k because I gave the last dude hatch, but I caught him and had him dead to rights so it counts) but it was a super chill game. And these survivors were no push overs, at least 2 of them were very solid survivors. The one Claudette had me chase her for quite some time before I caught her (I actually got Bloodlust 3 unintentionally because she was doing such a good job with jukes and windows), which if I didn't have Ruin would have probably lost me the game. And if I didn't have Ruin I wouldn't have chased her for so long, but since Ruin was keeping the gens down I knew I could afford to chase her for a while and do silly things (like trying to use ambush at safe pallets and stuff). Basically, Ruin turned the game into easy mode for me. That's why I say it can potentially be a crutch perk because in some context it makes the game so much easier for killers that they don't need to learn skills in map pressure. Ruin just does that work for them, so long as it's not found immediately (which is actually more often than people claim it would be).
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This guy gets it.
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While it's true that some survivor perks allow for boosted survivors, that doesn't change that fact that some killer perks allow for boosted killers.
"But that guy started the fight, why am I getting arrested too?" Because you took a bottle and broke it over the guy's face.
The guilt of one side does not excuse the guilt of the other side.
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There are no boosted killers, killers play alone.
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This reeks of bait, but eh.
Why does the entity block windows? Because instead of addressing infinites, and extremely poor map design they'd rather chuck bandaids into the game instead of fixing the problems.
Same goes for Bloodlust. Bloodlust doesn't fix anything, it didn't before it got nerfed, and it does even less now. Again, it's a bandaid for poor map design.
Ruin is a meme, and so easy to deal with it's unreal. Totems have a set spawn, you can bring a toolbox to negate it or make the check bigger, work with someone, blow the totem that you spawned on, or simply. Get good. It's not hard to hit greats assuming you even get that many skillchecks. I've had an entire gen where I got 2 checks. Ruin sure stopped me.
I find it hilarious how BBQ is a crutch, yet it had counters when it released. Only 3 or so killers can really make use of it with their mobility. On top of that they STILL gave you whiners a perk to stop it, an in-game mechanic change to avoid it, and you STILL cry about it.
NOED? You finish the gens in 3 minutes, teabag/insult the killer, but when they start bringing NOED it's suddenly unfair, killers op, it's a crutch, reeeee! Do the totems, stop being bad. Run Small Game, learn the spawns. You didn't do the easy counter, so you got punished. If all killers had actual power, and could pressure you'd see NOED, camping, and tunneling drop.
Also referring to "crutch perks" since we're being so broad. Unbreakable, Decisive Strike, Sprint Burst, Borrowed Time, Deliverance, Balanced Landing, Adrenaline, Self-Care, etc. There's a reason you only see these perks on survivors, and it's not cuz their perk pool sucks, or a perk just doesn't work cuz you're not killers and your power doesn't cuck you out of 70% of the perks available.
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@Caretaker a crutch perk is a perk that rewards you for losing so yes noed is a crutch DS is also a crutch, as for deliverance and adrenaline deliverance puts you in no mither and adrenaline heals you and has a speed boost at the end-game.
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You know what I've seen tonight? Killers who use bloodlust tier 3 to catch people. Rank 2 killers btw.
Bloodlust and NOED, seems that's all you need to get to red ranks.
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Killers skill cap is still higher and most good killers use perks that doesnt rely on survivors mistake. I for one use deer stalker, bamboozle, butcher, discoordance right now.
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