Tier list on killer mastery

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glitchboi
glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
edited January 7 in General Discussions

Feel free to disagree (in fact, I want people to disagree because I want to hear opinions from others) or post your own tier lists down here, this is only my take. This is a tier list on the skill ceilings of killers rather than the skill floors of killers, so keep that in mind.

This is based on how difficult it is to reach the peak of a killer's skill ceiling, which is why you might see easier killers such as Cannibal and Clown, two killers with quite low skill floors in higher tiers of mastery. This is because while they may be easy to learn, they have a lot more in their kit that they are capable of: for Bubba, flicks, and Clown, various potential anti-loop methods using both bottles and utilizing the full potential of the bottle angle. Even Wraith, a killer that people underestimate in terms of skill ceiling, has a lunge (the surprise attack) that is difficult but effective in loops if used correctly.

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  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,213
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    I would move Freddy up a little bit. Not much, just a little bit.

    Yes, his power doesn't have depth anymore. However, using the little you have to be effective with him takes a certain amount of effort. One can learn all there is to Freddy (which frankly isn't much) and still not get results.

    For that, and only that, I think he needs to go up a bit.

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
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    With how many maps there are there's definitely a lot to learn as Trapper. However many of the map updates have kind of nerfed him with less of an ability to hide traps in cool spots, which was one of his most fun aspects. If they brought back the potential of his cooler trap placements where they would collide through map segments in order for them to look hidden, I would definitely bump him up to the middle end of Hard to master.

    I agree with Doctor however, his 24m beam add-on is hard to master but pretty efficient once you learn how to use it to its full potential.

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
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    I think fakeouts as Freddy with the dream projection does require a degree of knowledge, such as which generator should I scare survivors away from as well as the timing of using dream projection in chase to cut survivors off in chases. The only reason why I put Freddy below Skull Merchant is because I assumed that SM does require a degree of knowledge when it comes to drone placement when playing SM as a trap-like killer (such as Trapper and Hag) in her full potential.

    However I do think he's less straightforward than Nemesis, so I would put him above him.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 1,792
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    Have you play all these killers or are some of these just base off of observation? Personally I agree with a good 2/3 of the list

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,213
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    I am not sure how much is needed to master SM, because well... I never played her.

    But yeah, I agree Freddy is less straightforward than Nemesis. At least to be effective with.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 7,989
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    I'm gonna disagree on Xeno and Nemesis' placement. Xeno feels like the easier of the 2, with both of them having similar abilities.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,080
    edited January 7
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    I see this a lot, and that really depends on who you're playing against. For instance, you will never down most seasoned competitive players if you're corner blinking everything. And the best ones will know how to force her into dead blinks depending on where the survivor hitbox is. Shack entrance is a big one. Some blink angles don't work if the survivor stands in the shack entrance. You eventually run into it if you play her long enough or do 1v1s, but you'll never actually see some players if you corner blink on first blink.

  • ohheyitsbobcat
    ohheyitsbobcat Member Posts: 1,660
    edited January 7
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    There are a few placements I personally disagree with.

    Legion: Lower. They are one of the simplest killers in the game right along with Myers. The only thing you need to learn as Legion is how to not get spun.

    Wraith: Lower. Outside of the lunging at pallets, there is almost nothing to learn with this killers kit.

    Nemi: Maybe one higher. While his power is very simple there are quite a few interesting spots to learn where you can and can't hit with the whip which takes time to get a grasp of. You also have to learn all the spots you can drag the whip. As well as when you should or shouldn't use the whip in the first place.

    Spirit: Lower. The only thing you really need to learn is survivor sounds. Her power itself it fairly simple to understand. I'd actually say she's probably the killer to get the highest results with for the least effort if you're good at tracking sounds. She's one of the most debatable though since it does all come down to your headset and how good a person is at tracking sounds.

    Nurse: Lower. She has the hardest starting learning curve since no other killer has kit like hers but it's not that bad to learn compared to others.

    Singularity: Higher. I'd put him up there with Billy. He's super complicated and requires quite a bit of map and game knowledge to get the best use out of his kit.

    Everything else is either close enough or I agree with.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,423
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    There are two components to a killer: mechanics and game sense. @GroßusSchmiedus has trapper higher and I agree: to stand a chance with Trapper you need to make a really quick assessment of the map and decide where your traps will go. Mechanically he is simple, but he does need to make some quick game sense decisions. A hypothetical peak skill trapper is making decisions right off the bat on where he wants to set up his traps, deciding which traps aren't worth getting, and keeping in mind where those traps are while engaged in chase.

    Huntress is interesting, because I don't think its that hard to get really good with Huntress, but you're talking peak skill level. Arguably she should be in her own tier if we're talking about being able to master cross map hatchets in any possible situations.

    I think Wesker and Wraith are too high. I'd have Wraith near the bottom. Wesker I think you're probably talking about hugging loops, if so we again have a killer who there is a jump in difficulty between really good and great.

    Sadako is too low. If we're talking peak mastery, that means keeping a memory of where every TV is in the map, constantly checking them, and using that info to see where the survivors are and who does or does not have a tape. Also keeping track of where the survivors are in terms of condemned status.

    Nemesis higher, but not that much.

  • GannTM
    GannTM Member Posts: 10,853
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    I kind of feel like Artist should be higher. If we’re talking about mastering a killer, there’s so much that goes into her power like crazy map knowledge, understanding where crows can travel from certain heights on certain maps (talking about you swamp), understanding survivor pathing, and knowing when to use 1 crow vs 3 crows.

    A master Artist will be able to deal with holding W by predicting exactly where a survivor will go and planning a crow flight in advanced. A decent Artist might rely on the anti loop portion of her a little too much.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,809
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    I don't really enjoy killer and only played a handful. Wraith was very easy to learn, I think he should be lower.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,533
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    I would put Pig up a tier

    On one hand it's more about timing then anything... plus Her Ambush also has timing all around it

    And her boxes are easy to do and RNG playing into everything

    She also needs to know all of the maps... Know when to Crouch and go for an Ambush... Know that Gens are going to get done and to put a RBT on a Survivor before it happens... and to NOT TUNNEL THE SURVIVOR THAT HAS A TRAP ON

    Her whole playstyle is to use all of her RBT's before the last Gen pops and maybe get a head pop on an unlucky soul

  • jmwjmw27
    jmwjmw27 Member Posts: 264
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    Nurse, Pig, Knight, Sadako, Legion, Freddy placed lower.

    PH, Slinger, Doc, Trickster higher.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,344
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    I would open a new tier for Singularity called: "Let me grow a second brain first."

    For some reason I can never get any good results with this killer (I play addonless though). Whatever I do ends up being a huge waste of time and gets me less positive results than just playing M1 killer.

    Slog Merchant is candidate for "zero mastery whatsoever" in my opinion. Place drone in loop (ideally with a little bit of distance) and adjust rotation. There isn't much to her than that. You can do that consistently on your first try just knowing what her power is.

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
    edited January 7
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    In terms of hitting the M2 I feel like Nemesis's is more difficult in terms of skill floor rather than skill ceiling. However Xenomorph's tail attack has a lot more potential when it comes to getting cooler hits, with Nemesis being more limited in hitting through loops while Xenomorph has the potential to get more interesting hits in short-wall loops once fully mastered. The Nemesis linger tech is fun and takes time to master, but is quite easy to get used to.

    I feel like there is a degree of mastery when it comes to Legion's lunge and being able to reach the 5th feral slash for the down. However I do feel I overestimated them when it comes to that as it's mainly the fault of survivors for them to allow Legion to get the feral down.

    Wraith has a chase power that I believe is pretty underestimated. Mastering his lunge in loops can be a bit difficult especially in longer tiles and I do think it takes more effort than given credit for.

    Spirit: I also agree that I overestimated her and would put her below Hag.

    Nurse: While I do agree that her skill floor is not as hard as people make it out to be, her skill ceiling is very very high when it comes to her potential of hitting survivors through walls in crazy ways such as longer ranges without aura reading, especially in indoor maps. For that reason I do believe she is still incredibly difficult to master.

    Singularity: What I do believe is that he has the highest skill floor out of all of the killers in the game (including Pinhead and Blight). His skill ceiling, however, is not as high as people think, as his chase potential stems from him being an M1 killer and having to play the game with a faster vault and faster pallet breaking which does indeed take skill to outplay survivors as. As for his skill expression it mainly comes from biopod placements and accuracy for scanning survivors which is moreso reaching the skill floor of the Singularity.

    It's a similar case of Huntress where she has a near-infinite skill ceiling due to being able to hit survivors across the map, and something I reconsidered big time after making the tier list, so I 100% agree. You could play Artist in an easy manner where you setup one crow at a pallet or a window and run the survivor that way, but there's not much when it comes to that because it's countered by holding W, whereas a mastered Artist is capable of countering that.

    Her placement on the tier list moreso refers to her more skillful ability the Ambush which is similar to Wraith's lunge but can be used more consistently in loops. What you're referring to is moreso her skill floor.

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
    edited January 7
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    I would agree but I really, REALLY want to give Slop Merchant the benefit of the doubt that there is a degree of mastery of using her as a trap-like killer akin to Trapper and Hag. It's such cope on my end honestly. If there are any SM mains out there that play her in unique ways I want to hear your opinions because I really want to find at least one, just one potential skillful playstyle for her.

    As for Singularity I don't know why but I do really good but it's probably because I'm on keyboard & mouse. On controller he is atrocious to control cameras with afaik. If you want my tip try to use him more as a chase killer rather than a setup, and try placing biopods in higher areas such as high tree stems in order to get easier scans onto survivors. He's definitely one of the harder killers to learn and has one of the more unique skill ceilings due to different potential biopod locations.

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
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    I've never mastered any of the Blight's techs nor the Mastermind's hugtech, but from what I've seen they are really difficult to get good results with as an observation but that's just an example. I've also observed the potential difficulties of mastering the killers, such as Huntress's orbital strikes and Oni's J-flick. So these are mostly just my ideas from what I've seen/experienced.

    The only killer in the higher skill-ceiling zones that I'm really confident about having mastered is Clown: bottle angles for throwing over walls, tonic/antidote placements for loops etc.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,344
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    I play on M&K myself, so that is not the issue. I always try to get a head start in chase by playing a very aggressive 1v4 (constantly harassing everyone and keeping them slipstreamed). It's the only way I've seen Singularity players actually perform well.

    Singularity's chase power just doesn't work without the Soma Family Foto. At least not when survivors know that it's more of a bluff than a real threat. You can simply outrun it every time and then still get to the next safe spot before Larry will get you. There is no need to drop a pallet or even vault until the overclock mode is deactivated again.

  • Vanishlord
    Vanishlord Member Posts: 490
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    Pig should 100% be up a tier as you said timing but also there is quite a bit in her kit which you may be better at then others. Which addons you like as they enhance certain parts of her kit like crouching, her ambush and her RBTs. And when you engage in chase she is a M1 killer as you should only really ambush before engaging in chase with a few exceptions in my opinion.

  • Dwight_Fairfield
    Dwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 6,775
    edited January 7
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    Legion and Wraith should be below Mikey in my opinion.

    Mikey's power is simple but you need to know how to optimise it since he has a cap on it. Good Mikeys know when to stalk rather than chase, they know to 99 their tier 3, and the optimal times to pop it.

    I see many Mikeys pop tier 3 prematurely when a survivor is guaranteed to make it to a safe window or pallet. They end up wasting it.

    You also have to try to not max out stalk on all survivors for as long as possible. Save some on each one so you can always pop your 99'ed tier 3.

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842
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    Singularity, Twins, Artist should be in the highest tier.

    Singularity you basically have to micromanage pods and keep survivors burning through EMPs while still playing regular killer and you have to learn how to do this on every map which is different.

    Twins is playing two killers at once and Victor can get hits from places nobody expects but it takes forever to learn them all.

    Artist can down from anywhere in the map but you have to understand survivor movement and travel time it's extremely hard but feels great when you can pull it off.

    Wesker, Nurse, Spirit, Wraith should be dropped.

    Wesker should be in the same tier as Demo they're basically the same.

    Nurse once you know how to predict movement every map is basically the same.

    Spirit is more about having good hearing than skill I find her incredibly easy tbh.

    Wraith should be bottom tier, body blocking is the most advanced thing he does and it's not hard to figure out.

    I'm thinking about it and Myers should maybe go a tier up, they're not very complicated it's true but you do need to learn good stalking locations and how to manage each survivors stalk.

  • TheArbiter
    TheArbiter Member Posts: 2,260
    edited January 7
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    I understand every choice in the "God Help Me" tier except for Pinhead. Why is he so high? Is there tech im unaware of, because to me outside of knowing when and how to use his chains and beelining for the box once you have spawns memorized I don't think his ceiling gets much higher

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105
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    Nurse at least two tiers down.

    Trapper at least three tiers up.


    The rest is fine or debateable.

  • MadameExotine
    MadameExotine Member Posts: 177
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    As a Skull Merchant main I can say she seems easy to master when starting out only because surv don't know how to go up against her so at causal MMR SM players will think they've already hit the ceiling. Place a drones at loops or high traffic areas and go.

    However once a certain MMR is reached, most surv will know her counterplay,.. at which the real mastery ceiling shows itself (Hardish) as she needs to multitask plenty of things (ie keeping track of when drones are hacked, understanding placement/rotation for structures, how to zone/herd, managing undetectable distances, knowing how to sett up temp and perma territory, etc). Without mastering these things, high MMR surv have an easy time with her.

    Likewise with Trapper. Placing traps seems simple enough, but alot goes into knowing trap placement for different maps.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,951
    edited January 7
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    i don't think i have ever ran out of stalk playing regular Michael Myer's so I somewhat agree with him being easiest killer to master/play. his stalk management only comes into with tombstone and i do not think it is much of a skill-ceiling.

    he has difficult skillshot to land and a 4vs1 element to activate his game-delay. He is unrewarding to play because his anti-loop doesn't work but his actual mechanical skill-ceiling is there.

    My top 5 killer in skill-cieling would be Wesker #1, Nurse #2, Blight #3, Pinhead #4, Twins #5.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,519
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    I love reading your post all across the forums my Freddy friend 🥰 I would agree with you!


    I think onyro is accurate but before her rework, definitely would have to move her up a bit.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,213
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    Thank you so much, my dear friend <3

    I like reading your takes on Onryo. It is good to find people who are passionate about their favorite character.

  • Steakdabait
    Steakdabait Member Posts: 1,255
    edited January 7
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    I would put pinhead much lower and blight in front of billy and singu behind billy

  • Dwight_Fairfield
    Dwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 6,775
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    There's no stalk management with tombstone. You basically want to drain every survivor you lay eyes on. With piece there is management.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,951
    edited January 7
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    i consider tombstone piece and Judith tombstone as nearly same add-on. both of them benefit from 99% EV2 so i think both require stalk management.

  • Dwight_Fairfield
    Dwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 6,775
    edited January 7
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    I don't. Piece is played completely differently to regular tombstone because you have limited time to use it and you need to pop tier 3 more than once. Regular tombstone takes much longer to get going. Any survivor with half a brain is going to expect it when Myers is taking his sweet time to pop a tier 3. Piece is much easier to pop, especially if you run J Myers memorial with it.

    Piece can also give Mikey another advantage like if you're running Monitor and you have piece 99'ed its practically a guaranteed tombstone if you can surprise someone with the small terror radius.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,519
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    I would love to add you to see you in the Fog together. I’d love to hear your thoughts, feelings and ideas on Freddy. Some guidance from an expert such as yourself would be great too ❤️

  • RFSa09
    RFSa09 Member Posts: 606
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    imo


  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,344
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    Billy should be way lower. The actual mental skill of "can I hit a survivor if I make a single quick turn" is very very low. Almost the entire "skill" involved is just having the muscle memory and dexterity, to control Billy during the curve window. That's it. Yes, there is some "does this object have collision" knowledge, but chances are, if an object is in a loop, it's there on purpose to stop Blight and Billy's M2.

    The whole "Billy was perfect, and well loved by all survivors, and took the highest skill to master" meme needs to get thrown in the trash. It's difficult to win matches with Billy because his M2 is garbage against the newer maps, which have way less "smooth vertical walls at 90 degree angles" that the older maps had. And we need to recognize the difference between "Billy takes the highest skill to do well" and "Billy is actual trash in the current game, so he often doesn't do well because he's trash". Yes, there are people that can win with Billy, but guess what, those people are good enough at the game to be winning with a wide variety of other lower tier killers too.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,213
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    I'm flattered, my friend, I really am. Though I'm afraid I wouldn't know what guidance to offer. Like I said, Freddy doesn't have depth anymore.

    There are little strategies to be shared.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,519
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    I understand. Thank you…I was just thinking even if just to discuss Freddy or swf here and there. Either way I’ll humbling accept your decline 💕

    No worries at all my friend.

  • tak47888
    tak47888 Member Posts: 125
    edited January 7
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    Oni: Higher as Nurse and Blight for sure, maybe even higher than Billy. It is not only mastering his power and flicking, but also the fact that your power is not constantly available. You have to manage it, knowing when to use it and where to better not waste it, knowing how to play the tiles and predict surivors movements.

    I would put Huntress and Cenobite one Tier lower, as well as the Wraith. Otherwise I pretty much agree with your list.

  • Cypherius
    Cypherius Member Posts: 130
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    Nurse is too high. Her skill floor is higher than the others but the ceiling is not that high. I would not call her easy to master but definitely not one of the hardest either. I would drop her at least 2 tiers.

    Wesker has the opposite situation. He is very easy to play at a basic level but it takes a lot of skill and practice to learn his advanced Techs. His hugh-tech being the hardest in the game. Would rise him 1 tier.

    Trapper requires a decent amount of map knowledge. Surprisingly he is not easy to master. Would switch his place with Wraith.

    Hillbilly is at the top tier where he belongs. Shame that he is on the weaker side despite being so hard to play.

    Nemesis has some complexity to his M2. Don't think he should be this low. At the very least he is harder to play than Xeno.

    Myers requires some stalk management so you don't run out of your power. (why is this even a thing? There are better ways to balance Tombstone Piece) Would place him at least 1 tier higher.

  • Depressedlegion
    Depressedlegion Member Posts: 291
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    I would say huntress is above Billy, due to orbitals and cross maps existing.

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
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    You could play Pinhead in a basic way where you just go for chain bound hits and run him as a chase killer. However studying box locations for all maps (especially Midwich and RPD W/E, predicting where the survivors will be in order to assume the box location. Simply put, mastering the box takes a lot of effort. Also, the chain bound takes a lot of skill to hit survivors with so you're able to master that in order to get the coolest possible chain bound hits.

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
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    This is an interesting analysis on SM from a main of hers. Skull Merchant as a trap killer is a lot more different compared to Trapper and Hag, no noise notification towards the hacked drones means you have to visualize around the map. I do feel like there was a lot more to SM than one would think, using her as a tracking-slowdown esque killer rather than placing only in loops. Thanks for commenting!

  • glitchboi
    glitchboi Member Posts: 5,962
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    Freddy and Onryo mains have so much in common: two killers who have similar powers (Old Freddy in particular) and both lost their favorite versions of their killer.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,530
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    Good list!

    I agree with most of them!

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,213
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    And hopefully both will get their respective killers back, as soon as possible.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,432
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    Blight should be the only one in god help me. No other killer even comes a little bit close.

    The fact that billy is at the top with his old, clunky design(even though he is the most mechanically demanding) is wild. Just because something is hard to play due to it's lack of care over the years doesn't make the skill ceiling higher. Blight is easier to get value out of but is far far harder to perform even near perfect.

    No one has reached blights skill ceiling in terms of a realistic human level, the best of the best still makes constant mistakes which in retrospect could have been better. Huntress for example still has to guess at the peak of her skill ceiling, blight might require some guessing but every play can be improved atleast a smidge.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,432
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    Real(pretty much not in order regarding individual tiers. )

  • blackfox0408_fr_
    blackfox0408_fr_ Member Posts: 79
    edited January 8
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    For me now it's in order ... I allowed myself to correct but you mostly got it right, and i assumed you had a good headset on spirit ...


  • pigslittlepet
    pigslittlepet Member Posts: 432
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    I would actually move sm up a tier.i know it doesnt seam it but there are dozens of little techs and tricks you can do with her that you wouldn't have a clue about unless you main her. She's easy to play but surprisingly deep once you start digging.