Dev Update January '24: Gens, FoV, Hillbilly, Onryo, And More!
Comments
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Any plans to let us decrease our FOV lower than 87? I want to have true tunnel vision when I tunnel
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Can we get some Nemesis buffs? This change to stbfl is going to harm the few m2 killers that were barely playable on console.
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She will still need old iri tape to really be able to perform, that addon was just way too good to pass up on really wish they would give like 2 or 3 tvs base kit.
As a Sadako main and basically 1 trick im very very glad they are reverting most of her and basically giving her some qol changes, but i think she will need more.
We will see what happens to her on ptr though.
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Survivors can still turn off tvs by taking tapes, and since tapes no longer give passive condemn, she can be played around by turning off tvs on the gen you're working on.
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Billy changes are definitely interesting. Considering how hard it is to actually reach the overheat threshold this will encourage billy players to go for curves and the like with less punishment. Also please consider being his cooldown add-ons back to some extent (Huntress and blight both get them so why not him?)
STBFL change is decent but I always felt like tunnelling was the issue with it. Making it not work on endurance hits seems like an easy solution without nerfing it too much
New shadowborn sounds decent but I think we are getting a bit too many haste perks recently. They should be heavily considering dest we have another Made for This situation
Blight changes are good but Alch ring still seems crazy good just in a different way. You should be able to easily cover any map fully now.
Good stuff overall though I have to admit
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Survivors can use the “short bursts of repair + excessive hiding” strategy, to break a 3-gen at the start of the game.
In this scenario, the only generators the survivors are repairing are the 3-gen. And since it only takes 4.5 seconds to lock in generator progress (and it’s even less than 4.5 seconds if multiple survivors are repairing the same generator), if the 3 gen isn’t all in line of sight of each other, many killers won’t be able to patrol them fast enough to catch the survivors anywhere near the generators.
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Any plans to increase the gen kick regression values on Knight's guards since he would be kicking gens for the same 5% as them?
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So why's that a problem?
That's only if they're at one gen remaining, so you've had the rest of the match to get work done, and in the worst case scenario you'd just chase a survivor and let the gen get done, since the survivor is your objective and the generator isn't. What's the issue here?
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Permanent ADS deathslinger has entered the chat
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Peanits mentioned earlier that a survivor missing a skill check ISN'T counted as a regression event, so 'difficult skillcheck builds' are unaffected.
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The generator change is very concerning. Requiring 5 charges to be repaired before the regression stops means when you're in a legitimate 3 gen of the closest generators, killers can just kick once and then forcefully keep them regressing by denying the 5 charges. There are multiple maps and spawn points where this will be a thing and a legitimate problem.
I feel like this is one of those situations where you didn't need to give a compensation buff in exchange for making the change. Limiting it to 8 regressions per gen was fine enough to encourage normal gameplay, adding on the charges required to stop it will just put us in a more complicated version of 3 genning.
I also maintain that a far simpler solution to this would be to buff Deja Vu and/or make it to where there must be X meters between each generator. OR if you're going to keep generators spawning in their normal way now in which 3 genning was very popular and very easy to hold - make it to where those generators gave a passive buff to their repair speed.
This current change that's planned will 100% make 3 genning stronger to hold and worse to deal with.
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Knight or No Where To Hide news?
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This is done to make people use tapes. You can't ignore her anymore.
If she spamms, TVs will be on cooldown, denying any chase pressure.
If you spam, you can't interrupt a survivor inserting a tape.
It has a lot of downsides if you spam.
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It also makes slugging the most effective play style.
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Most of the changes look good, though Quick Gambit will still be garbage, I don't think the devs realise why it's such a bad perk, and REDUCING the paltry gen speed boost just to make it slightly easier to proc isn't gonna help. You still don't want to take the chase anywhere near gens being repaired since the killer can just leave you and head to the gen anytime.
Ruin is also.... eh... like it's technically a buff and with the changes to 'regression events', Ruin will be even better because it doesn't cause them, but 100% regression is still just a bit too low to ever want to run a hex. 200% and making it auto-cleanse after a kill would have been better.
As far as the 3-gen solution goes, it's pretty good as it should ONLY affect actual 3-genning as you should rarely ever reach 8 regression events on any single gen even with multiple gen regression perks. It does, however, mean that survivor-caused 3-gens will be harder to defend, and thus survivors don't really have to care if they 3-gen themselves since they can just play it slow and burn all the killer's kicks.
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Im so happy my friend.
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You think survivors are going to waste all that time on the first gen?
Survivors already do this, it leads to a stalemate or the killer eventually loses.
If you're playing killer well you should be slowing repairs down by presuring survivors via injurying/hooks, not religiously kicking gens until everyone dies of boredom.
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Did you play against old onryo?
A good old onryo?
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Quick gambit changes are bad honestly no one is gonna use that for 5%
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Ok
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Not entirely. Look at what @Peanits told us above. Condemned is inflicted around ALL tvs in a 16m radius. It can't be ignored. Tvs are around gens. 7 tp are enough to condemn and it has no cooldown.
She's a scary killer.
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I don't think she will need a form of iri tape. Cooldowns on tvs are extremely short.
This on top condemned around all tvs is enough for crazy map pressure that CAN'T be ignored.
She's good. Really good.
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The “short bursts of repairing + excessive hiding” strategy also works at the very beginning of the game.
And there’s no “just chase a survivor”, if the survivors are literally just repairing for only 4.5 seconds, then running far away until the killer has patrolled past the generator. Against many killers, the survivors can use their voice comms, or the visual terror radius, to excessively hide from the killer.
Im already playing against many survivors that pre-leave generators at the first sign of a terror radius. This anti 3 gen mechanic just makes that the optimal way to break any 3-gen, at any point in the game.
And another survivor strategy would literally be “hide around the map, and repair various generators for 4.5 seconds, then hide some more”. Imagine how frustrating it would be, as killer, to just patrol generators over and over, and never finding survivors, and instead finding barely any progress on any of the generators. This would be a valid strategy, because eventually the generators would become damage immune if the killer tried to kick them repeatedly.
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i am pretty sure they're reverting her add-on's. ring drawing will now apply condemn to all healing actions and iri-tape will now reset TV's as it did before. It just looked full revert.
the two buffs which are invisibility increase and the condemn change look meaningless. I don't care to hook people. there is no point in hooking people if i am playing for condemn in old version. She's back to being slug killer that slug people under TV's and teleport to them. In other words, very under-powered because I have to commit to chases with pathetic chase potencial to down survivors.
STBFL is a nerf to m2 killers that play like m1 killers such as Demogorgon, so m1 killer. They make it sound like m1 killer are over performing.
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The 3 Gen "fix" is a problem. Players myself included often complain about certain play styles. Slugging/tunneling. The killers who play by mixing Gen control and chase and tries to avoid tunneling and slugging are most punished for this. So when killers abandon more pleasant playstyles because the Gen objective is no longer viable this will be the reason. The harder you make it to protect the gens the less reason a killer has to leave a injured survivor....now tunneling and slugging are the last viable win strats for killers. This will choke the game.
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Prerunning counters nowhere to hide.
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All it is going to do is change the meta again, but still maintain functionally the same meta.
Right now the main build is corrupt + pop + pain res + flex perk
The new build will just become: corrupt + Grim embrace + deadlock + flex perk (probably something like nowhere to hide). So now you can still kick gens, you get your 5% and you get passive slowdown without having to think about it. So functionally this changes nothing. Also "stacking 4 slowdowns" is basically required at a high level because of how efficient survivors can play, so again its not changing anything. If anything the change to grim embrace makes the meta even better here because its all passive slowdown now.
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This method you keep parroting makes no sense.
A kick will now inflict 5% regression or 20 seconds worth of regression. In order to deplete a gens 8 regression actions a survivor will need to repair 40 seconds worth (almost half the generator) before they start to gain any ground.
Then you take into account the tine spent hiding and it'll take you upwards of 3 minutes to repair a gen this way.
No one who isn't sandbagging their team is going to do this willingly.
It's literally only useful in a stalemate situation where you're already forced (by the killers actions) to spend ages working on a gen.
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I’m saying survivors could do this strategy at ANY POINT IN THE GAME. Maybe they’ll purposely create a 3-gen, then use this strategy at the end of the game to break the 3-gen. Maybe they’ll start the game with this strategy. Maybe they’ll primarily focus on the easy generators, but will make sure to place 4.5 seconds of progress on the 3-gen, to help start the damage immunity on the 3-gen.
And it’s absolutely world shattering that you could take a scenario of “survivors are literally repairing for 4.5 seconds, then excessively hiding”, and turn it into “the killer is making everyone die of boredom by religiously kicking generators”.
How are most killers supposed to find survivors, if the survivors are literally excessively hiding far away from generators? Are killers supposed to check behind every single object on the entire map? This game is currently balanced around the fact that excessively hiding causes a stalemate, or “excessively long 3-gen” as some people like to call it. Under the new anti-3 gen mechanic, excessively hiding would be rewarded by damage immune generators, which means the survivors get rewarded for excessively hiding.
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I don't know, man, this seems like a really, really unlikely scenario.
If that ever happens, I don't even think adjusting this system is even the right call for fixing it? Surely the better option would be to improve killer tracking, both through perks and the basekit.
I'll be honest, this seems like a giant stretch.Even if survivors do this, it's still within the killer's power to stop them by just choosing not to defend that generator cluster. It's not even throwing, that's honestly better in general.
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Stacking four slowdowns is a detriment at all levels, it is not a requirement.
As for the meta, yeah, people are always gonna run slowdown for as long as slowdown exists, so I don't think it's fair to judge any general change to the game on whether it's achieving the impossible even when it isn't trying to.
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Is anything going to be done about how fast the first few gens go? Part of the problem with 3 genning is in how survivors spawn and how the first chase goes. In my typical games as both sides, the flow of the game is basically dictated by how many gens get done before the first down. If no gens get done, the killer wins, if 3 gens get done, the survivors win, and if 1-2 gens get done the game is relatively balanced.
The reality is at high levels, that during the first chase it is common for the survivors to complete 2-3 gens before the killer even gets their first hook. This naturally creates a "3 gen" in the process due to how the game is fundamentally designed, because survivors spawn opposite killers they tend to work gens on their side of the map naturally creating a 3 gen.
Given that the game is literally DESIGNED in a way that killers are supposed to be stronger later and weaker early game, 3 genning seeming like an intentional mechanic to the game, not some kind of flaw. So i guess my point is again, is anything going to be done about early game basically being non-existent due to how fast those first few gens can go?
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Watch a tournament sometime. There is a reason they always run 3-4 slowdown perks.
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Eh? Why would a tournament be relevant here, we're talking about the game as a whole.
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3 genning is still a viable strategy.
Any decent killer who does this doesnt need to kick their selected 3 gens 8 times to win this way. The vast majority of the time you will either secure all your kills or the survivors will manage to outplay you, well before you've kicked a gen 8 times.
This only impacts those who relentless defend a gen at the expense of all other objectives, for a prolonged period of time.
If anything it'll make defending gens easier. Your kicks inflict 5% regression, and survivors need to be able to repair for a solid 4.5s before they halt regression, so until you use up you 8 kicks, gens will be much more easily held down. So considering most don't make 8 kicks as it is, this sounds like a buff to killers who aren't Skull Merchant.
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How would this work with skill check regression perks such as Hex Lullaby, Merciless Storm, Oppression, etc? With the survivor failing checks due to a perk would the perk still do the extra regress or would those be locked out after 8 times on a gen?
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That is not actually true, in fact this might make it more viable as survivors to intentionally 3 gen themselves in order to get the killer in this scenario where they can no longer regress gens. And yes i know what you are going to say: "Solo queue, average survivors blah blah" you obviously don't play against the teams i play against and that is fine, but you really should try to understand how the game plays out for people with 5k+ hours.
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I'm sorry I'm not in the 5k+ hours club, I guess us measly 2.5k hours peasants are just clueless about the game.
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So if survivors do this strategy, your advice is to just “not to defend that generator cluster”? Does that mean the killer is supposed to just give up?
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Overall pretty happy with these patch notes I have to say. Excited to see pretty much all of this go live.
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How are you spending so much more tine and effort kicking gens instead of chasing and downing survivors?
I swear you come up with some of the most bewildering killer-main takes sometimes.
If I ever have to spend that much time on gens and not on survivors is almost always already a lost cause.
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The 8 limit is way too restricting. That means killers can only use eruption 4 times per gen at best, and if they have any other gen damaging perks, that makes even less times eruption can be used.
Why make eruption cause 2 uses to be used up? In order for it to work it HAS to be kicked first, so every time eruption is used, it's two uses used up.
Killers now are also punished for kicking low damaged generators. Have pop? Can't dare kick gens any more unless the generator is at least 50% damaged, otherwise you use up your 8 charges for a measly 5% vs a higher percentage pop kick.
Why is it every damn patch makes killers have more and more things to balance and worry about all while having to abide by survivor laws? This is getting ridiculous. There a generator! Oh, I'm not allowed to damage that. If I do, then I can't use any of my more significant damage perks.
This ridiculous 8 limit needs to apply to kicks only. BHVR said this is supposed to only affect people who 3 gen at the beginning of the match. How does this remotely only affect those kinds of killers? This hurts E V E R Y K I L L E R who uses any kind of regression perk. Not to mention, survivors will no longer care about them 3 genning themselves since it does not target just killers who protect 3 gens from the match start as BHVR said it would.
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How on earth do you get "just give up" from "don't waste too much time defending one generator cluster"?
Your job isn't to prevent any generators from being repaired at all. It's to kill survivors. Yes, sometimes that will involve intentionally letting certain generators be completed to better control the trial and bait survivors.
This scenario you're describing is only a problem if the killer cares (too much) about defending a 3-gen instead of progressing their objective.
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"Tunneling has become such an issue that we are going to buff DS. Like a year from now, until then we reworked STBFL to encourage and reward tunneling."
*Mmm, chef's kiss*
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Ok so:
3 Gen: I don't really keep count how often I regress the same generator but I think 8 times is fine.
Onryo: If I'm reading this correctly, tunneling as onryo seems kinda strong which I'm worried about.
Hillbilly: I'm glad billy is getting buffed! Overdrive seems a bit weird.
Blight: I'm glad these are getting changed! I don't really know how good increased turning is though. I don't play blight but I don't really want another killer with almost no good addons (Freddy, Pyramid Head, Demogorgon, etc.)
Perks: Stbfl change is wack. This feels like a nerf to the weaker killers and that's it. Grim Embrace is great. I always wanted to use this perk since it incentives going for everyone for a good effect similar to no way out and old bbq. Quick gambit is a bit worrying given current gen speeds. Ruin got the wrong thing changed.
Ormond: To my understanding this map got buffed?! I hope not.
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Just checking, are we gonna impose any hard limits on the number of times a survivor can be healed or nah?
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Super looking forward to Billy!
Happy with the Blight addon changes.
Curious to see how Onyro feels to play as and against. She's been getting a lot of attention recently.
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Just paranoid that because it's FROM a perk it'll trigger. Intentionally or not.
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Hillbilly will receive good changes. That's good. I like it. What about second Chainsaw Killer? What about Bubba? He needs some tweaks. Are there any plans to buff him in some way?
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