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Did Xenomorph (Alien) kinda failed?
It seems like his % are very close to avarage pickrate, which is suprising for a biggest DbD license. If you look at Chucky and Wesker, they both have MUCH bigger pickrate. Even Nemesis has bigger pickrate a bit. Why?
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Because of his mechanism. It can be seem just another version of Nemesis, and people would think this design stale.
And also, I think flame turret is not a good design. Being able to lose power by survivors' hands is not a good experience.
Post edited by Astel on11 -
I would not see a pickrate above the average as bad. You have to remember, we have so many Killers in the game, at some point you will see any Killer not as often, because there are so many.
But that he is very similar to Nemesis is probably a reason as well.
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I feel it's mostly due to his biggest mechanic being unrealiable, the tail. You can hit people perfectly and it not do damage. I've even followed directly behind someone and hit them with the tail in the middle of their vault and it just clip through their body while the tail is literally impaling them.
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He looks cool but his power is very generic and boring, no wonder people prefer other killers
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Yeah, pretty much. He is also particularly boring to go against.
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Alien is not biggest license DbD had and he is not failed either.
People just played him good enough and now, except for people who mained him others are playing him time to time.
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I find Xeno more frustrating to go against than boring. Because there is not much to do against Xeno, they either M1 you or hit the Tail eventually, it is one of those "Leave Loop get hit, stay at loop get hit"-Killers.
But the turrets add more frustration, because I rarely see Xeno forced out of its power with them. Mainly because almost all Xenos use the helmet.
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"Leave Loop get hit, stay at loop get hit"-Killers.
The kind of killer design everyone was tired of. A pity Xeno is just another one of those, because the character had potential.
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It's fine, the pickrate is very decent for the number of killers we have, this killer will be like Pyramid head. Good killer but a bit cluncky so not for everyone, also kinda like singularity, you have to be really into the game to play well, you have a lot of stuff to keep track of and the turrets also annoys a lot of players.
It seems easy to play but it's really not, the tail is hard to hit and really punishing to miss. Keep in mind Alien has the sortest range AND the longest CD, even bigger than Deathslinger, it is to balance the fact that you are within lunge distance when you hit but it create a bad feeling when playing. You feel heavy and limited, no mobility, no crazy shots.
The network has a lot of depth to it, you can even use it in chase with a good rng and the management of turrets can be hard if they are placed well. So i think it's too annoyingly difficult and frustrating to play for most (ive seen a lot of frustration from people missing tails by an inch or having tunnels in map corners. It has no free mobility so it's a W fest with the turrets "slowing" you down and beeping to alert them.
It suffered from bugs at release that really killed the hype (because everyone was happy about the ptb), a gigantic hype caused by anticipation (people also expected something else in term of power, everyone had their ideas) and it has one of the most disliked mechanic in the game: short ranged attack.
Also, when people says they are going to play it, or they wanted it for years does not mean they will actually do it. At the end of the day the only thing that count in dbd is gameplay, the license is a plus but not a deciding factor for the vast majority of gamers.
Most of the "well designed" killers are dash killers: Billy, Oni, Blight, Wesker, even very original and amazing concept like Singularity just gets forgotten. That's why Chucky did better (and not even by much i think), it has a dash, forgiving misses, really easy to pick up and strong with depths to master. The only dash killer that is really punishing is, very surprisingly never played (hello Billy). Billy has the same CD as Xenomorph (3s when bumping), next patch, Billy will be much more forgiving with better collision and less CD, and boom, massive success, it's that simple really.
This killer is going to be niche and that's prefectly fine. Alien probably selled very well so i think it was a massive success in that aspect at least (queens everywhere on release so that's alot of money).
I don't think it was a fail by any means, but not the dream chapter everyone created in their minds. Nemesis is by far the most forgiving of the short ranged killer with a passive power on top of it, it does not have the clunck of PH nor the turrets + clunck of Alien, that's probably why people gravitate more towards him, when Nemesis released, it was the same deal: boring power, can we rework him and blah blah blah, nowadays he is fine so it's going to be the same for Alien. (PH release also created a war in the community).
Nemesis can miss but succeed and Xenomirph cannot as much, to drag with Alien, the tail must no collide with anything or you'll enter CD, so when used in loops, you really can't drag that much like Nemesis does, tou can scan a pallet to get the hit, but you can't hit the wall then drag to hit the surv like Nemesis does all day along. If Nemesis had no drag, his pick rate would suffer A LOT, right now, he suffers mobility issue but is really forgiving, not easy but easier than his two brothers.
Alien "failed" by not being the next Wesker, but you can see that Behaviour did a lot with it, complex power, they designed the turrets (first of their kind), the network (first of it's kind, works on EVERY map, insane concept), the Xenomorph itself is the most complex model with two walk cycle, no "walking straight" in stairs, it has proper animations, the map has easter eggs, with an amazing sky box, Ripley has Jonesy and voice lines. Like clearly they did not hold back with the chapter.
I choose my characters because i love them, i would have been an Alien main no matter what, even if it was trash, but i do trully think the design is not bad at all, it's even great, more undetectable would have been amazing.
Slap a dash attack with undetectable like Chucky (forgiving) to replace the tail and boom, great design for the community. (But we can't have dash killers only, we need Singularity or Dredge to bring something cool, and i think Alien hit the spot).
And you never hear anyone saying that Blight and Wesker are the same because they dash around (that's normal, because they are different) but Xenomorph is like Nemesis or Demogorgon ?? Not at all, i don't know why people do this, but this is just untrue and kinda cheap. You could say you play around Nemesis the same as Alien, yeah maybe, and even then, i disagree, but it's the same for Wesker and Blight, you have to use LoS blocker and specific jukez but you also get zoned or hitted without being able to do anuthing except "hope they miss".
i think they did very well, but like i said, it is not for everyone, at the end of the day, gameplay rules, the rest is just decorations.
Final note: I LOVE Alien, thank you Behaviour for this !
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Saved my time, as I was pretty much gonna write the same. Nice job.
I'm not sure why there is a sudden wave of Xeno hate. Has some content creator I've not seen said something somewhere?
Anyone comparing Xeno to Nemesis does not understand how the 2 hitboxes work. Nemesis whip hitboxes start from the top and shoot out 1 after another as a series of lines parallel to the ground from Nemesis. Each hitbox stops when it hits terrain, but if any of them make it past to the survivor it's a hit. This is why Nemesis can drag along the ground and you get whips that seem a mile off still hit you. Nemesis whip comes from Nemesis' position in the world, turning the camera does not change the orientation of his whip in flight, so once you send it, you have strafe to catch juking survivors.
I'm less sure of Xeno's hitbox, but to my knowledge Xeno on the other hand is like a downward spike, a single hitbox that shoots in a line from above Xeno's head at a downward angle to maych the players low profile and relative aim. This gets a little weird when trying to stab up above you. If it hits terrain it immediately stops. Unlike Nemesis Xeno can turn the camera to maneuver the hitbox while the tail is in flight, allowing for flicks with the tail, and although it can be dragged, there is little need or desire to do so due to the ability to turn. The two abilities are similar, but function very differently.
The prevelance of speedy killers being the only thing anyone ever wants is so boring to me. It's almost like if it isn't some jacked up sprint that can turn around corners and score mad hits like Chucky, Blight, Wesker people just rag on it. These are just as much anti loop as any other ability, but other methods of achieving the same are just the wrong way to do it apparently. Like I hate a Clown bottle as much as the next guy, but at least it's different.
Xenos anti loop is pretty much the same in terms of gameplay as Huntress, just Xeno is faster. Why anyone brings Demogorgon into the conversation I don't know. Their map traversal is kinda similar... but Xeno I'd argue is closer to Freddy or Sadako than Demo, and unlike the 3 of them has no cooldown and can't be disabled. The comparison is kinda baffling to me. Xeno is certainly unique enough in its own right, and a good killer.
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He didn’t fail and he didn’t succeed either
he just…well….. he got added to the game and that was pretty much it rlly
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Xenomorph just isn't fun to play. The low POV in Crawler Mode feels like a hindrance, especially on maps with tall grass, especially with flamethrowers constantly blocking your vision. The tail hitbox is janky and unreliable, it feels like it never goes where I want it to and aiming it on a controller is as bad if not worse than aiming with any other killer's power. And missing feels so punishing that using the tail feels self-sabotaging and I should stick to M1 attacks. And what's the point of the killer if I don't use their power, on top of getting frequently disoriented in ways other killers don't have to deal with?
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Not only Alien, but last year BhVR took the approach of making the new killer look a little better upon release after the PTB and then nerfing it shortly thereafter. As a result, many of the killers are not that powerful and are stressful to use due to their inexplicable hit detection and long cooldowns of their abilities.
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Well said.
I personally think a lot of hype around Xeno vanished due to the bug fix when they got released. The hit cooldown was bugged and not only fixed but nerfed as well. For people that understand, it's not that bad now. I play Xeno a lot.
Some people however are almost always pessimistic when it comes to the killer role. Let it be due to entitlement or a lack of experience.
You can see this every time. "Chuckys gonna get nerfed, don't you wait." "We can't have a nice and strong killer, survivors are gonna complain!!!"
This basicly happens every time a good killer releases.
Sadly the bug fix with Xeno 100% hit the mark for these types of players. The message was: Xeno got nerfed after release.
Many people stopped playing Xeno after that I feel like. Not because Xeno is too weak now. But because they feel like Xeno is too weak now.
I've seen the same happen with Chucky when his turning got nerfed just recently. Many said: "Chucky is too weak now." "I'll never play him again." "I won't buy a killer at release anymore. They will just get nerfed."
The quality of the Alien chapter is undeniably high. Boiling everything down to: I get hit when I drop a pallet is a bit much if you ask me.
Nostromo wreckage is an awesome map, all the Easter eggs (pun not intended) are amazing, Ripley is really cool and Xeno themselves brings a ton of innovation into a stale game.
Will every player be pleased? Never. I recently found out that many people actually dislike going against Hillbilly. Xeno is fine.
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I don't know that it failed. The killer is definitely not for me, unfortunately. Turrets are way too annoying and repetitive. They were cool the first time I saw them on PTB. After dozens of Xenomorph games, I just want that beeping noise to stop and I want to stop hitting a turret every 30 seconds. There's a lot of stuff going on with the killer (tunnels, turrets, walking, crawling), but the actual meat of the power, the tail, is just kind of boring to me. Everything else is window dressing IMO. You spend the majority of your time in crawler mode trying to get hits with the tail, and that part is clunky and frustrating to me.
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He's horrible to play on controller, and those on PC who can use his power effectively get annoyed by turrets.
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His tail is kinda lackluster when you start looking at stats. His tail's reach is less than Nemi's T1 whip and has a longer cooldown than even a M1. Makes it feel like your being punished for using it when you couldve M1ed instead. It also doesn't have the benefits like pallet breaks and such.
His map traversal is nice if you have to cross the map, but it doesn't feel like it makes up for a power that just feels bad AND can be removed.
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Xeno didn't fail, but they also didn't overly succeed. I think the expectations people built up over the years were far grander than what was ever going to be what came to the game. The people who want to play Xeno do, but there isn't really a reason to go out of your way to do so. The experience of playing them isn't anything you can't get from another killer and they aren't some high skill ceiling killer that can be mined for tech. Overall they're fine, but that is all they are is just fine.
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DBD is also a snowball game, and it's very realistic for Xeno to be chasing someone within the first 10-15 seconds of a match starting; without needing to run lethal pursuer
The tail damages straight away and doesn't give the survivors 8(!!) extra health states to work with
Plus he does have some pretty ridiculous addon options. Having almost permanent superior anatomy would be super strong on even an M1 killer, let alone on a 115 ranged one
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The range is lackluster. It's hard not to compare it to Pyramid head's base range of 8 or Nemi who starts at 5 and goes to 6. As for addons, while sure he has some handy ones like the purple one you mentioned, there's a reason people pick the anti-flamethrower ones. You HAVE to be in crawler mode to benefit from most of them, and being removed from your ability is a problem Nemi and PH don't have.
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I don't see why you would compare them to Xeno at all. Neither have mobility or the capability to be a pseudo stealth killer with monitor + abuse.
Xeno can have insane mobility on some maps, and can instantly get to gens that normal 115 killers almost have to forfeit (top of dead dawg, mothers dwelling, etc come to mind). That actually gives him options to drop a chase and not have it be a game-throwing decision like it would be for your average 115 killer on a large map.
Pyramid head goes down to 110 while using the ranged attack and it's super telegraphed and easy to dodge at range unless you are animated locked.
Nemesis whip is objectively better than the Xeno tail, but still, has the 3 health state problem which can't be overstated in a game where the first chase is arguably the most important, and also when all the best gen defense perks rely on you hooking someone in the current meta. Xeno gets the ball rolling so much faster than Nemesis ever will and it puts him miles ahead in terms of power even if Nemesis ends up stronger by the endgame.
I would also argue that you only need 1 anti-flamethrower addon and even then, with good tail whips you could get away with none
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The stealth is kinda overshadowed when the flame throwers give away your approach. They beep when you approach, even when underground and it's obvious where you're gonna pop up from.
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She's a little harder to use on controller from what I've heard, so that's probably a large factor contributing to a lower pick rate.
I still think Xeno has a ton of missed potential. Crawler mode having a 24 metre terror radius was a cool implementation especially considering I'm a sucker for lower terror radiuses above 0 and below 32, and travelling through tunnels is pretty sick and one of the more creative forms of mobility and tracking.
However, I still think the tail strike is pretty lame. It's another clone of Rites of Judgement and especially Nemesis's tentacle. Maybe being able to latch and climb on walls to reach greater heights for instance and then striking off walls would have been very unique and would have made Xeno one of the most game-changing killers to be introduced. It definitely would have been harder to implement especially considering they already worked their asses off on making the tunnels, but it's still something I wish to see. Also, not to mention the fact that there's not much counterplay against an Xenomorph in crawler mode. You dodge it? Well, cool I guess, about as rewarding as 360ing a killer. It's either you get hit by the tail or a basic attack at a window.
And finally, my biggest pet peeve regarding Xenomorph: turrets. Another mechanic that relies on solo queue teammates to put turrets in proper areas yet they just so happen to put them right next to generators or stations rather than loops that punish Xeno directly.
The best part about Xenomorph overall are her varying terror radiuses and her form of mobility. Her chase power, though? Not so great.
Post edited by glitchboi on0 -
Chucky is still the newest killer in the game so it is a little early to compare pick rates against xenomorph. Though I do anticipate Chucky will continue to be a popular pick in the future because his 3rd person view and fun/unique gameplay. As far as xenomorph's pick rate, I'm not especially concerned. There are a lot of killers in the game now. 3% seems reasonable.
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turrets limit his creative usage of stealth and mobility. He also suffers from pre-running syndrome because of turrets. Wesker and Chucky have in-chase mobility and they counter #1 problem that killer have in the game which is pre-running and free pallet break transitioning. From my personal opinion, Xeno add-on are really boring. dull and uninteresting. Xeno is not as forgiving to play. The skill-floor to use Nemesis whip is lower then Xeno. that would my list of reasons to why xeno is not popular.
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Big License and average? Well, I know a guy who is from a big franchise and he has this pickrate (2nd last place - even Hag surpassed him now). Compared to this, Xeno is loved by the community.
Post edited by KaTo1337 on2 -
Xeno did had a really high pick rate when first released. Problem thought Xeno tail had a bug where the CD was too short. They not only fixed the bug they also nerfed it the same time so popularity did took a big hit after that.
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Sure but after breaking 1 or 2 there's a pretty huge window where you can run across the map as a 16m terror radius killer. There's also deadzones where no tunnels appear, which is bad for your mobility but also means you won't find any turrets out in that area.
Not sure I agree it's always obvious where you are going to pop up from, the turrets beep based on your distance from them; and many maps have huge gaps from where you activate the portal underground to where you pop up.
So the turret will make it sound like you are far away when in reality you are half a second from coming out of the tunnel next to someone. That's also why his mobility is nutty on some maps, because while the portals are dumping you out right next to the gens, underground the entrances might be less than a second apart
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The turret spawn point IS where you pop up from, and there's one at every gen location. The only "turret deadzones" are areas away from gens. If I'm working on a gen and the turret starts beeping loudly, there's only 1 spot they are exiting from to harass that gen, which is the spot I got the turret. Even if you focus on your lower TR rather than utilizing tunnels, the turrents still give away you're approach as if you have a TR of 41 meters.
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There are maps where the tunnels are incredibly far from any nearby gens. And no, there isn't always one at every gen location. I can think of a few off the top of my head, like the Grim Pantry main building or the Disturbed Ward main building. Tunnels do not spawn there but gens do, so it would be a big waste of time dragging turrets all the way over
And if you are running a nasty build (batteries included, emergency bolts, etc) it makes chases there very difficult for survivors once the gen is done since you are then a 120% movespeed ranged killer who can vault windows almost as fast as survivors and still gain bloodlust if you somehow can't catch them quickly. I'd almost go as far to say that build turns Xeno into one of the best anti-main building killers in the game
And in situations where the gens / tunnels are tightly clumped you can't ever be sure which tunnel the Xeno will be coming out of
Finally, I did say once you have broken a turret or two. A minute cooldown is a long time and you can get a lot done in 1 minute in DBD
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Look... honestly this conversation is so spread out time wise I keep having to re-remember what we're talking about... so imma let it die. I just wanted to add one thing that is abit sidetracked. Batteries Included does NOT make xeno 120%. This is a common error people make about killer Haste because we call 4.6 m/s "115%" to compare it to a survivor's speed. You are getting an added 5% of 4.6 m/s, which is not "120%".
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