How Are You Supposed to Learn New Killers?
I don't really want to lose a hundred games in a row to learn Billy.
I haven't gone back to learn any of the old Killers I didn't play because of MMR and the lack of a decent learning environment.
It really sucks because Billy seems fun but I literally can't learn ######### in 5 minute matches.
Just seems like BHVR's matchmaker encourages you to never diversify your character roster.
Comments
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Bot mode
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That's great until you figure out that the bots are absurdly bad.
I seem to remember them actually being good when they first got introduced, idk what happened.
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Your first 25 matches should match you with beginner survivors. Bot Mode is there to learn the basics. Everything else is in git gut area.
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Your MMR shouldn't be too high on a killer you don't play. So I think it's somewhat alright. Obviously, if you learn a difficult killer and keep screwing over yourself, then you're not going to win but this is less of a problem with matchmaking and more with the skill floor of some killers.
I remember the first 5 games I played as Nurse. I already had a few hundred hours of experience in the game but I still lost because I had no idea what I was doing and kept overblinking. In order for me to win in that situation the game would have needed to pair me with the absolute weakest group of survivors it could find. But that wouldn't be fair either. If you play worse than your opponents, you should lose. Matchmaking cannot account for you making the same mistake 15 times in a row.
That said, I would certainly like a practice mode or something like this, where you can play against a very basic AI and learn maps, looping (as much as possible against an AI) and a killer's power.
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What's up with the "git gut" on like every reply of yours?
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Here’s my format for learning new Killers:
- 5 Games no perks (Except a general perk like iron grasp that is necessary for you)
- 5 Games adding the first Killer perk
- 5 Games adding the second Killer perk
- 5 Games adding the third Killer perk
- 10 Game mid test
- 5 Games with one brown add on
- 5 Games adding a second brown add on
- 10 Game Final Test
Yay GRADUATED!!! 🎉🎉🎉🥳🍾🎊
You can only use the base skin and weapon until you graduate.
I’m learning Hillbilly and I’m using the old Speed Limiter add on while doing chainsaw only. My Hillbilly gameplay has improved remarkably. I wouldn’t worry about losing too much either, the MMR really helps fix that.
If you practice chainsaw only you WILL be tempted to use your hammer. DON’T. That is half the battle. If you have any beginner related Hillbilly questions I will try my best to answer! 😊😊😊
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Like above said for basics and stuff do bots. But Hillbilly is perhaps the hardest character in the game to master (Nurse isn't top 5 difficult), he is simply a character you are going to have to lose a lot with to learn loops, charge time, speed, curving, feathering and new base, addons, and hitboxes. But Billy is buffed now and also encouraged to use power as much as possible, so it actually will be worth it now. It'll be fine if you aren't a syndicate Billy who only uses chainsaw and info perks. You are playing the most chad killer in the game.
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I kind of wish they took feathering away and instead made it to where you have to fully charge the chainsaw up and hold L2 while pressing R2 (normal attack) to sprint.
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MMR is directly tied to your highest Killer MMR, I thought. I thought it was a certain number of points off your highest.
Did they change that?
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What are you talking about? The game is the most balanced it has ever been. In fact, survivor needs buffs.
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Honestly, most of the survs you're facing when using a new killer for the first time are almost certainly worse than the bots.
But the best answer is you play against bots until you get a decent grip on the mechanics of the killer. This is luxury of the bot matches.
Then you move into live, where you will face relative potatoes for a decent amount of time. Then when you hit the soft cap, you'll just have to eat some losses. Maybe a lot of losses.
If your fundamentals are good, and they should be after thousands of hours in the game, you at least won't get absolutely and brutally pantsed the way you did when trying a high skill floor killer before bots were implemented.
If you're looking for a nice scaling sandbox to help you transition smoothly directly into the same win rate you have with your usual killers, that's just not a reasonable expectation to have. And one isn't forthcoming.
Just be willing to eat some #########. It's how you learn. Losing isn't the end of the world, I don't know why so many people seem so terrified of it.
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Learn the killer mechanics in a bot match, and then just go play real matches
But honestly it doesn't sound like you have mentality to learn a new killer, who cares if you lose a hundred matches.
CoconutRTS said something like "if we don't worry about kills, and we worry about consistency, it's all about making mistakes. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, instead build off them."
Granted he was speaking for Huntress but I think that saying works regardless for whatever killer you're trying to learn.
And typically what I do, which I stated above, is by playing a killer in a bot match with no addons, just so I can get a grasp of how the basics of the killer function, and then I'll take it to real matches still without using addons, I did this with both Hillbilly and Oni. Win or lose just practice.
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Nothing. It's really a keep playing until you become a better player thing.
Some people should really be doing that instead of complaining over every small change that patch does introduce.
In this case, beginner killers indeed have to become better against human players at some point.
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Miss cooldown add-ons and youtube vids
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I feel like that's not true, doesn't MMR scale off of your highest MMR Killer?
Because I've been trying him a bit and I've been playing against higher hour players than I do on my mains, which doesn't always equal skill but jesus dude.
EDIT: Yes, MMR does scale off of your higher MMR Killers, they all get bumped to a certain point if you have other Killers high up. That probably explains it.
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Honestly don’t think there’s anything you can do I know I only play the killers I’m semi familiar with
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Uh, I care if I lose a hundred matches???
Who would WANT to do that?
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I always do test runs in bot mode. Just to get an initial handle on the powers. I assume irl survivors are looking for a proper game and not me test running killers, so I take advantage of the bots. I wouldn't rely on matchmaking, it hardly does what it's supposed to do.
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If you're losing the majority of your matches just from switching killers, it means you don't really know how to play DBD as killer. I'm guessing you only play Nurse and/or Blight.
Start with a basic M1 killer like Wraith and actually learn how the game works. After that, it's pretty straight forward to move between killers and still win most games.
If you're a solid killer player and spend 10 or so games just focusing on learning how to chainsaw, you should be back to winning most of your games no matter what your MMR is.
You want to win with Billy, 10 or so games. You want to master Billy, thousands of hours.
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Look, I do think that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you should also expect to fail several matches in a row because you ARE learning something new, It's okay. I think you have to shift your mentality a bit. I think it's worth it, Hillbilly is a super fun killer to play.
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Yes, but it's based on your top 3 or so killers, and that "certain point" isn't particularly high. Even if you have three killers at really high MMR (say 2000+), it's not going to bump your new killer to that level. It bumps them to like 1200 (I think), which is well below the soft cap*. In that range, most of competition is going to be pretty lousy (or at least mixed), particularly if you're a super experienced player.
Now in cases like Billy, Nurse, etc. who are very mechanically distinct from all other killers this is still slightly unfair to be sure, but it's certainly not the same as being thrown into the same matchmaking tier as your best killer.
But at the end of the day, the prescription is the same: take your lumps.
I totally get that losing most of your matches really sucks, especially if you're used to winning most of them. But thems the breaks. And it'll be temporary.
*All of this is based on the best info I could find, since BHVR isn't terribly transparent
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.....Wraith, GF, Wesker and Nemesis are my mains, but I usually rotate new Killers in. I don't really appreciate the insinuation.
If I'm playing Billy, I'm not trying to M1, friend. I'm trying to use his saw, which isn't helped by knowing how to use Wraith. I've played every Killer extensively besides Hag, SM, Nurse and Billy. No interest in Hag or SM. Nurse makes me motion sick and Billy just got buffed.
I have legitimately never touched him outside of his Adept and Saw achievement which I farmed for during the 4th Anni, I think.
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I guess I'll just stick to bot matches or give up on the Billy dream lol
I can't do 40 five minute matches to learn a vital aspect of him. I just don't have that kind of time or patience anymore.
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Well here they aren't complaining about anything to do with the patch notes, they just want to try out a different killer and not get steamrolled...?
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Well, as I said before, it's Bot Mode and first 20 - 25 matches where MM matches you with beginner survivors. There's nothing else to choose from. If Bot Mode doesn't work for you and MM keeps matching you with non-beginners, what else you can do but keep playing until you become better?
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"Some people should really be doing that instead of complaining over every small change that patch does introduce."
I'm not asking you to repeat what you said, just asking why you keep saying "git gud" when they clearly are NOT complaining about the patch notes, just a general issue they are having.
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The idea is supposed to be that "if you know how to play an m1 killer, you'll probably already do well with other m1 killers"
...which obviously doesn't apply to any other killers that play completely differently.
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This was not directed at OP if you haven't figured that out already.
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I'm not sure that any of the MMR stuff works as intended. I know my MMR can't be high on any killer I regularly play as I'm constantly matched against less experienced players. The moment I try a killer I don't play though I get matched with more experienced players. Not a big deal to me but it doesn't make sense either.
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Well, if you're winning with M1 killers and understand the meta aspects, it shouldn't take that long to learn Billy. He's not that different. Spend a couple of nights grinding with him to figure out his chansaw and you should be competent with him.
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I'm not quite sure how exactly it works either. I thought it depended on your average killer MMR and scaled like that but it might be I mixed that up.
What I meant was, that you have different MMR on different killers. Even, if we were to assume that the MMR of your lowest killer heavily scales with that of your highest, you'd still be quite a bit lower on them. Most basic mechanics are also shared between killers. Meaning, you won't start at 0. So the likelihood of you getting completely stomped game after game is pretty low.
I also have a feeling that the MMR scaling isn't quite that strict. I see a pretty wide variety of survivors on different killers. With Singularity for example (whom I assume I'm the lowest with), I'll see a lot of survivors that fall for the most basic mind games. On Doctor, Nemesis and Billy on the other hand, I see more of the usual decent to strong (sometimes very strong) groups. With some killers my games just feel incredibly easy compared to others. The weird thing is that these are the same killers I consider myself to be pretty bad with.
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Hornet I think
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I really don't think you'll lose hundreds of games. At first you will lose a lot but eventually you'll be getting new(er) players.
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I was wondering when someone would post this. 😂
If that doesn't get you in the zone for Radience I don't know what will.
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Yeah, I feel like learning a new killer is way harder with MMR in the game.
Back in the day I just waited for Rank Reset if I wanted to learn someone new, and it worked pretty well for Spirit and Oni. Had some troubles with Pig, but in the end it worked.
But after MMR was introduced, it got much harder to learn a new character, because whatever it is supposed to do when you're playing a killer for the first time definitely doesn't work. Trying to learn Onryo was extremely difficult, and I am sure I'll have the same troubles with Knight, who I really want to play.
Another example of the massive list of reasons why MMR should be removed from the game.
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Most killers would take less than 40 matches to get somewhat good, the problem is that Hillbilly is just really difficult to play.
Bots are probably the best place to start. You can practice curving in peace and get the muscle memory for the chainsaw charging down. The only problem is that bots don’t teach you how to play against real players. They get zoned out super easily yet can frame perfect dodge certain attacks so it will mess with your practice a bit.
So start with bots to get the muscle memory for curving and rushing, then go into real matches and try to use those skills. You will lose a lot unfortunately, but that’s to be expected of the hardest killer to play.
Also watching streamers who main Hillbilly might be beneficial.
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Best way to learn a killer is to play public matches with them and not care about losses. If you can't do that, learning the basics against bots is an option. If you don't want to play against bots because they are bad, you can find someone to do Billy 1v1s with in a custom game.
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You shouldn't be winning when you don't know what you're doing otherwise there's no point in learning a killer.
Yes you will lose a lot that's just part of the process eventually you will start winning and it will have felt worth it.
I kinda hate this trend in gaming lately where everyone wants instant gratification and don't want to work for anything.
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I see it like this. A fresh killer that you dont play for a very long time would put you at low MMR against easy survivors. Which you can totally able to win with just M1’ing.
You can try to test power with M2 only. You may lose, but it doesnt matter much because easy survivors mostly dont toxic so it doesnt feel hurt.
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I can only speak for myself but the reason why I hate losing in DBD even when I'm learning a new killer is because the other side is always sore winners. No matter it's survivors or killers the winning side in DBD loves rubbing it in your face. Whenever I have a horrible match in DBD I'm greeted with teabags at exit gates, flashlight in my face or gg ezs baby killer in chat. Losing in DBD is a horrible experience imo because of the community and the poor sportsmanship people have.
I don't mind losing as long im having fun but losing in DBD is never fun thanks to it's toxic community. Honestly I been on a 2 month break after a night of losing every single match, only getting like one kill and having really low average of hooks. In single match I was welcomed to map offerings after map offerings and really strong items and builds. As no surprise I say 80% of the survivors after the match was really rude and nasty to me even after I said I was having a off night. I had such a bad time I decided I was done with this game for few months because I just didn't want with the community anymore.
I can only speak for myself but this why I hate losing in DBD.
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I have a limited amount of time that I can play any games at all.
I already need to choose DBD over other games, which is becoming more and more rare. To top that off, I need to spend that time doing something that probably won't be very fun and will likely be frustrating.
Surely when it's broken down like that, you can see the issue.
Post edited by Pulsar on0 -
Focus on training and not winning. Drop the ego.
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Im sorry to tell you of all people this but: learn to lose. If you play badly, you shouldnt win your matches. Learning is part of the progress.
I dont want to be that guys, but if you just want to have enough time learning, play customs or slap on grim embracre, deadlock, dms and corrupt.
I think many people here on the forums would gladly play customs with you so that you have time to learn.
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Wow. I love your attitude.
Gonna write your steps down. 😍
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I would welcome the assistance.
At least then it'd be fun lol
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I would suggest bot games but with bots you'll never really mind game them - I thought when they were added they'd be a great practicing or learning tool and they're not really good for both if it's 100% all bots on the team. They're too responsive for experienced players to practice mind games and too linear for new players to really learn anything. The tutorial bot is the only set of bots that are decent but you can only play Trapper with them.
As for real games - I feel the averaged out MMR should be reset or adjusted when a killer is reworked. Personally I know how to play Billy so I'll climb to a normal mmr but for everyone who quit playing or never touched Billy when the rework / nerf happened I imagine they need some easier games starting out to get back into it.
I feel your pain - Billy is one of the most fun killers in the game and I'm glad he's relevant again. Hopefully you can find a convenient way to learn them. The only option is playing in a controlled environment of custom games with a bunch of friends if you want a chance to learn chases as him.
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I couldn't hit an elephant at 2 yards trying to learn huntress. Now I can hit said elephant from 5 yards. 😀
Practice practice practice with your new killer and don't care about winning or losing.
Good luck.
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Then ask for it!
I'm certain a lot of us will be honored to play with you!
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Afaik for new killers the starting point MMR / the adjustment is heavily influenced by your overall killer MMR. - For old killers it's just MMR decay.
As for bots; I'd go with all the bots, remove two and then just focus on getting the mechanics right before heading into pubs.
Alternatively, there's always "come shack 1v1" --- If you were EU I could point you to a server/to some people to practise with but alas.
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Apparently the MMR system has an individual killer score, and an overall killer score. So if you're new to Hillbilly, your score with him is low, but your overall MMR score is high... so you will get survivors somewhere in the middle.
One way of looking at it, if you are losing consistently, your overall MMR is dropping so you'll be facing easier and easier survivors as time goes on, so your capacity to learn will fall in line with your level, and tbf, the Deep end isn't a flawed way to learn if you go in with the right expectations.
I'm not convinced the old system for matchmaking was better at all, as you only need to look at the PTB to see what non-MMR games are like. Heck I'm convinced that the reason Sadako got gutted was purely because feedback from the PTB came from people who literally didn't read the patch notes and ignored tapes the whole game.
The number of bambies is staggering... I had some notion that only experienced players play the PTB... because what casual goes playing a development test build?
Yet... I've been playing less than 1000 hours, and yet some of the survivors I've seen in PTB footage make me look pretty damned competent... Admittedly I've been obsessively playing and consuming DBD content like a taller, hairier, more horror inclined version of my high functioning autistic nephew... (seriously you should see that kid on Geometry Dash... it's almost scary... I'm very proud of his gaming acumen 😅)... but still.
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